HBO: The Last of Us

[ArtDamage]

I tell you now though, you folks who are experiencing the first season without having played the game, just enjoy this season and walk away. No season 2, just pretend it was a great one off season.

 

[R_R_X]

Pretty solid episode.
I liked the stuff after the start, showing where it started. I'm enjoying the fact that they're not your standard, done thousands of times Zombies. Something a bit different.
I'd actually like a whole show, pre outbreak, following the events running up to it, revelations about the fungi by scientists etc.
I was a but concerned after the first episode that the zombies were just people with noodles in their mouths running about like your tired old zombie trope.
Very pleased this episode showed that the fungal infection spreads to such a horrific degree.
Like the clicking thing. Fun cat and mouse scene.
The all zombies are linked thing is interesting enough.
The ending with Tess(?) felt a bit cliche.
Still not sold on Ellie. I don't hate her or anything but I'm finding her far from likeable.
Really like Pedro as Joel. He's kinda carrying the show for me character wise. Hope he doesn't die the clichéd self sacrifice for Ellie route at the end.
I'm hoping Ellie will grow on me over the season., she's the weak link so far (only limited to 2 episodes of course, she might get really good later)

The clickers were done so well, very faithful and ripped straight out of the game, I wish Joel or Ellie had thrown a brick or a bottle to distract them it would've been the cherry on top, the infected will only get worse going forward with more variants showing up so get ready!

I wouldn't worry about the story having a cliche ending like that, the first game has a simple but very strong ending and it would take an actual idiot to screw it up, I think you will be pleasantly surprised how the story shifts torwards the end.

Yeah Bella still hasn't won me over unfortunately I'm thinking it has to be the way they are writting Ellie in the show, she's more obnoxious and acts like she has a constant chip on her shoulder, she's coming off like a brat basically and the MCU tier humor isn't helping.
They're also implying there's a darker side to her which kind of ruins the progression of her character who is supposed to start more innocent and naive and then go on a brutal journey with Joel which shapes her into a different person when it's all over, the fact they are implying she enjoys the violence on the show is off putting and out of character when every act of violence she has commited in both games took an incredibly painful toll on her psyque.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Finished the game again last night. After the winter section, Ellie had legit PTSD. Poor kid.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

The clickers were done so well, very faithful and ripped straight out of the game, I wish Joel or Ellie had thrown a brick or a bottle to distract them it would've been the cherry on top, the infected will only get worse going forward with more variants showing up so get ready!

I wouldn't worry about the story having a cliche ending like that, the first game has a simple but very strong ending and it would take an actual idiot to screw it up, I think you will be pleasantly surprised how the story shifts torwards the end.

Yeah Bella still hasn't won me over unfortunately I'm thinking it has to be the way they are writting Ellie in the show, she's more obnoxious and acts like she has a constant chip on her shoulder, she's coming off like a brat basically and the MCU tier humor isn't helping.
They're also implying there's a darker side to her which kind of ruins the progression of her character who is supposed to start more innocent and naive and then go on a brutal journey with Joel which shapes her into a different person when it's all over, the fact they are implying she enjoys the violence on the show is off putting and out of character when every act of violence she has commited in both games took an incredibly painful toll on her psyque.

Looking forward to them developing the infected.
I think there was a hint of new creatures in the scene where Ellie was asking Joel if the stories about even more monstrous infected were true. I'll look forward to seeing them.
Really pleased these creatures are their own thing and set apart from your typical zombie.
My wife really hates them (in a good way - finds them repulsive and scary)
I'm glad they don't go for the cliche ending. I was really expecting Joel to sacrifice himself.
I was so sure they were going to kill Joel off this season (hope they don't) and I've been resisting the urge to watch videos from the game on YouTube. Don't want to spoil it for myself.

Never having seen the game version of Ellie, I have have anything to compare thd show version to, but I have to agree with you.
She is obnoxious and unlikeable. Her apparent love of violence makes her seem like a psycho.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

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Just seen this post. Oh crap, it gets really bad?

 

[R_R_X]

Just seen this post. Oh crap, it gets really bad?

Part 2 is a very divise game, some people love it, others hate and some are in the middle, I'm in the middle at this point don't think it's as horrible as people say and it's not a masterpiece either, it has a very interesting concept that's unfortunately let down by horrible pacing and structure, ludonarrative dissonance and not enough content between some characters but translating it into a show format might actually do wonders especially if they change up some events and the overall pacing and structure of the story.

If you're liking the show so far try to not look at spoilers especially from the second game unfortunately it's hard to do when we've been beating the same dead horse for 2 years now it's a bit tiresome to see the discussion always shift to TLOU2 even when you're only discussing the first game/season.

 

[ScoutingForToys]

Part 2 is a very divise game, some people love it, others hate and some are in the middle, I'm in the middle at this point don't think it's as horrible as people say and it's not a masterpiece either, it has a very interesting concept that's unfortunately let down by horrible pacing and structure, ludonarrative dissonance and not enough content between some characters but translating it into a show format might actually do wonders especially if they change up some events and the overall pacing and structure of the story.

If you're liking the show so far try to not look at spoilers especially from the second game unfortunately it's hard to do when we've been beating the same dead horse for 2 years now it's a bit tiresome to see the discussion always shift to TLOU2 even when you're only discussing the first game/season.

Yeah I've been doing my best to avoid them, which basically means staying away from anything related to the show or games at all.
I knew there was some controversy about the second game, stumbled upon it by accident, but what I read of it seemed to mostly be memes and rage about one of the characters. Luckily didn't spoil too much for myself. I've stayed away from it all since then.
ArtDamages post advising to stay away got my spidey sensors tingling.
For now I'm just going to try to enjoy the first season.

 

[Space Jockey]

Watch the second season when they release it, play the game if you haven't yet, make up your own mind. The overall story arc is much more than one incident in the game is all I'll say. There's about as much people like it as those who don't.

 

[ironwez20]

Part 2 is a very divise game, some people love it, others hate and some are in the middle, I'm in the middle at this point don't think it's as horrible as people say and it's not a masterpiece either, it has a very interesting concept that's unfortunately let down by horrible pacing and structure, ludonarrative dissonance and not enough content between some characters but translating it into a show format might actually do wonders especially if they change up some events and the overall pacing and structure of the story.

If you're liking the show so far try to not look at spoilers especially from the second game unfortunately it's hard to do when we've been beating the same dead horse for 2 years now it's a bit tiresome to see the discussion always shift to TLOU2 even when you're only discussing the first game/season.

It’s hard not to talk about part 2 tho when talking about season 2 and where the story will go. I mean yea it’s tiresome but the game is so divisive and this show is getting popular it’s sometimes unavoidable

 

[𝘨⃨𝘭⃨𝘪⃨𝘵⃨𝘤⃨𝘩⃨10ᔦᔦ]

I was thinking, they'll have to recast Bella (for Part II), won't they? She must be like 12 or something. But after a google search realized that she's 19 (19!?). She's actually a year older than Ellie was in Part II. So yeah, they'll definitely be keeping her as Ellie.
Man thats gonna be weird. She literally won't have aged a day in Part II. Unless they use aging tech or makeup to make her look older.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Do you mind me asking how you're already on episode 7?

Will exit this thread for a while, don't want to accidently drop spoilers that ruin the potential viewing experience for anyone.

Just wanted to say Lim Toys is doing awesome things and I'm glad you are here and part of this community to engage and be open to feedback and suggestions. I think that's great. I wish you good fortune in all the wars to come.

Also I extend much love to @ironwez20 as well.

 

[ArtDamage]

Yeah I've been doing my best to avoid them, which basically means staying away from anything related to the show or games at all.
I knew there was some controversy about the second game, stumbled upon it by accident, but what I read of it seemed to mostly be memes and rage about one of the characters. Luckily didn't spoil too much for myself. I've stayed away from it all since then.
ArtDamages post advising to stay away got my spidey sensors tingling.
For now I'm just going to try to enjoy the first season.

Yeah as was said it's tough to give you the full reasons why to skip season 2 without going into spoilers.

I will say prior to TLOU part 2 I was pretty sure of some events that were going to occur, so a lot of my issues with the story were not what some other people's issues were, but I still think it's a bad entry.

At best, it's a poorly paced and somewhat generic narrative in both delivery and message. At worst, it's a somewhat bait and switch telling of events that in a way sorta retcons the fantastic story of the first part. Part of the reason discussion of part 1 always kind of bleeds in to discussing part 2.

In my opinion, If you're not the type thats into the bait and switch, deconstruction of characters type stories you won't enjoy it.


But 1 is fantastic and has one of my favorite game endings. I don't want to hype it up too much, but I think it will be talked about a fair amount after the show ends.

 

[Asta]

At best, it's a poorly paced and somewhat generic narrative in both delivery and message. At worst, it's a somewhat bait and switch telling of events that in a way sorta retcons the fantastic story of the first part. Part of the reason discussion of part 1 always kind of bleeds in to discussing part 2.

In my opinion, If you're not the type thats into the bait and switch, deconstruction of characters type stories you won't enjoy it.


But 1 is fantastic and has one of my favorite game endings. I don't want to hype it up too much, but I think it will be talked about a fair amount after the show ends.

TLOU is so good because of the complexity of the relationships between the characters (and they way they're acted).

The final moments of Part 1 are a great expression of that complexity.

Spoiler

Compare the end of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, with the lie that Marlow tells Kurtz' Intended in order to protect her from the awful truth. People can be happier living in an illusion, shielded from reality.

At the end of TLOU1 Joel lies to Ellie because the truth of what he did would destroy the relationship he'd built with her. She'd become a surrogate daughter to him, and he couldn't bear to lose her. Ellie outwardly accepts Joel's word, but her expression in that final moment doesn't portray the solidity of belief.

Part 2 is a natural continuation owing to the manner in which things were left at the end of Part 1. She could've accepted the lie as truth, or even accepted it as a lie in order to preserve her relationship with Joel. Yet she couldn't accept it because Joel's actions had driven a wedge between them.

I think anything less than the brutality that followed in Part 2 would've been disingenuous. Ellie's quest for the truth; Abby's quest for revenge; and the mutually destructive obsession that followed.

It's a videogame, and the story is melodramatic, but for me the continuing story is a powerful one. The ending to Part 2 stayed in my head for days afterwards.

If TLOU becomes a trilogy, it's a trope for the middle part to be the darkest.

 

[ArtDamage]

TLOU is so good because of the complexity of the relationships between the characters (and they way they're acted).

The final moments of Part 1 are a great expression of that complexity.

Spoiler

Compare the end of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, with the lie that Marlow tells Kurtz' Intended in order to protect her from the awful truth. People can be happier living in an illusion, shielded from reality.

At the end of TLOU1 Joel lies to Ellie because the truth of what he did would destroy the relationship he'd built with her. She'd become a surrogate daughter to him, and he couldn't bear to lose her. Ellie outwardly accepts Joel's word, but her expression in that final moment doesn't portray the solidity of belief.

Part 2 is a natural continuation owing to the manner in which things were left at the end of Part 1. She could've accepted the lie as truth, or even accepted it as a lie in order to preserve her relationship with Joel. Yet she couldn't accept it because Joel's actions had driven a wedge between them.

I think anything less than the brutality that followed in Part 2 would've been disingenuous. Ellie's quest for the truth; Abby's quest for revenge; and the mutually destructive obsession that followed.

It's a videogame, and the story is melodramatic, but for me the continuing story is a powerful one. The ending to Part 2 stayed in my head for days afterwards.

If TLOU becomes a trilogy, it's a trope for the middle part to be the darkest.

Spoiler

To me part 1 ends with a fantastic pit of your stomach ending. You can understand Joel's actions even if what he does isn't necessarily right. The grayness and ambiguity of the ending is great. He refused to lose again and you can understand why and in his shoes can't say you'd do any different. Them both letting the lie slide afterwards is also great. It leaves them something to resolve in part 2. Something to put a chip in this tryst that they've built.

Part 2 throws it all away.

-Attempting to paint Joel as almost wholly a villain (instead of a product of the world he lives in). They've all done ****** up ****. That's the world of the last of us.

- Tries to make the fireflies look more competent than they really were in the 1st game (they were disorganized and the person they had that was supposedly going to make the cure wasn't qualified to do so. It was essentially a shot in the dark. Nevermind, the fact that he basically wouldn't do the same if it meant sacrificing someone he loved.

-No problem with the brutality, but the shock value of the beginning death, is just that, shock value. When trailers released for 2 I was pretty positive it was going to happen so I wasn't disappointed in the death per se. More at how cheap and lack luster it was narratively.

-Abby in the game world creates a problem because they tried to cram her in the entire game forcing you to play as her in order to create some kind of empathy for her. Because they went for cheap shock value in the beginning though it essentially plays out like playing as JFK in part 1 and having to play as Lee Harvey Oswald the whole second game to humanize him.

the problem is you got unfiltered Druckman and instead of giving the audience time to know the character and maybe even grow to like her before the big moment, he used it as some cheap brutality in the beginning. I can imagine a far better story where we travel and work together with Abby long before the full reveal of her context in the world. Then at least we get that same feeling: damn I don't like that she did it, but I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same.

I remember reading that Druckman's favorite game is MGS2, so that bait and switch makes all the more sense if you're familiar with the Raiden controversy of that game. Raiden serves his purpose enough for the story of that game, but you never get the feel that YOU ARE Raiden the way Kojima wants it to come across because all you can think of his how you'd rather be playing as Solid Snake.

3) As for Ellie she gets the short end of the stick and essentially loses. Everything and everyone, but more or less for no reason other than she chose to lose. Maybe that's "dark" and "realistic" but it makes a trash story. We start out with something that can be the usual "dig two graves" revenge story. Which would have been okay I guess, but after a slew of murder at not only your own hands, but Abby's, we get the typical Hollywood "if I kill you, then I'm the bad guy!" cop out ending. The whole thing is just so damn cliche and so watered down from the last of us 1 experience.

Last of us 1 ended and I felt like ****, but in a good way since it delivered something I hadn't experienced in a game before.

Last of us 2 ended and I felt like **** for owning the collectors edition

 

[Jmek]

Part 2 is one of the best videogames, and stories within the genre. It's incredibly nihilistic though and beats the player into an absolute pulp, so it's not surprising it was divisive. It's going to be interesting to see how they adapt it.

 

[ironwez20]

They just need to develop certain characters more. It’s no surprise stick man doesn’t want to do a last of us 3. Seems like the first was supposed to be one and done. I feel like for whatever reason he doesn’t wanna stay on it and it’s evident by part 2 ending like that. Even you could argue part 1 was a clear cut ending that didn’t need a continuation.

 

[Rayman]

I was thinking, they'll have to recast Bella (for Part II), won't they? She must be like 12 or something. But after a google search realized that she's 19 (19!?). She's actually a year older than Ellie was in Part II. So yeah, they'll definitely be keeping her as Ellie.
Man thats gonna be weird. She literally won't have aged a day in Part II. Unless they use aging tech or makeup to make her look older.

They’re already using makeup and clothing to make her look younger, so yeah it will most probably just be a little movie magic, besides acting which will of course make her feel different. Not really something to worry about imo. Also… we don’t know when the next season will be. I mean, HBO likes taking its time so may be 2025 for all we know, or even 2026 maybe… since she’s 19 she’ll have changed herself a bit too.

 

[Space Jockey]

News reports state that Annie Wersching, who played Tess in The Last of Us videogame, died of cancer today aged 45. RIP.

 

[e30ernest]

News reports state that Annie Wersching, who played Tess in The Last of Us videogame, died of cancer today aged 45. RIP.

I just read about this in a Star Trek community. She made her debut in Star Trek Enterprise and her last role was as the Borg Queen in Star Trek Picard season 2.

It's heartbreaking for her to die at such a young age, leaving behind 3 kids. There is a GoFund me for the kids she left behind.

 

[RandomHero]

Is it possible to have both loved and hated the last episode at the same time?

I have to say, Nick Offerman was the perfect casting for Bill. He looked the part and really got the "crazy doomsday prepper" down perfectly. I really enjoyed getting more of his backstory, and actually getting a look at Frank. For those that played the game, this was obviously a massive departure from the game's story where Bill actually helps Joel and Ellie gather supplies and get a car together. But, the story they wrote was brilliant and really hit some incredible emotional notes. I don't mind that they took a different path with the story, because it enhanced it so much.

But - it's really a shame they took away all of the interaction between Bill and Joel/Ellie. Bill and Ellie really go at it in the games, their bickering is everything from chaotic to hysterical, and I was really hoping Bella would get a chance to break through with Ellie's personality in those scenes with Bill.

Oh well. Great episode overall. Wish some things were different, but I guess that's where someone who isn't familiar with the source material can enjoy it a bit more than someone who is. Looks like they're going to keep the brutality from Pittsburgh in the next episode. Looking forward to that. The place where Joel and Ellie do begin to trust each other.