HBO's Game of Thrones

[The Josh]

Well of course but I can understand it from both sides. It is a great show, well written and awesome characters. It strikes a blow however when you got Sean Bean playing a badass character who basically gets owned for the entire show and cannot get payback. I feel like they did not build up the rest of his family yet for you get into them, as they did with Ned. Of course you want the payback but it doesn't feel as sweet as it should.

Yeah, I think thats pretty close. The series has been really good so far but they built up the character I was the most interested in. If I had read the books which up to the start of this series I had never heard of then it wouldn't have bothered me so much. Plus, I don't feel good about the other character I've gotten interested in. Everyone else I just feel "eh" about.

 

[Mister Ski]

Well of course but I can understand it from both sides. It is a great show, well written and awesome characters. It strikes a blow however when you got Sean Bean playing a badass character who basically gets owned for the entire show and cannot get payback. I feel like they did not build up the rest of his family yet for you get into them, as they did with Ned. Of course you want the payback but it doesn't feel as sweet as it should.

Now I wouldn't mind if the white walkers and their zombies just come in and kill everyone.

It will be sweet...trust me. Ned won't be striking the blow, but it will be struck. The Game of Thrones is just beginning.

 

[wofford29]

This is for those that have read the books and keep talking about this supposed vengeance...

Spoiler

I keep seeing people saying there will be vengeance? Where and when does this happen? According to the ____ I've read Jaimie is set free in exchange for the protection of her daughters and is still alive. Cersei is still alive. Tyrion is still alive and is forced to marry Sansa Stark. Joffrey is poisned with only an assumption of who did it (which is hardly a rightful death for the twerp). Tywin is alive until his midget son kills him (Lannister on Lannister death is not vengeance). Now to the Starks. Bran is crippled by Jaime. Ned is murdered. Robb is murdered. Catylen is murdered. Arya becomes a blind nomad. Sansa is forced to marry the dwarf. Rickon has to flee with a wildling woman when Winterfell is sacked. And this doesn't even take into account the Baratheon's and the Lannisters role in killing the king etc. etc. Where's the vengence? Who the ____ wants to keep watching something when nothing worth happening to who it should happen ever happens! Every ____ing Lannister should have their heads put on a stake, and yet none ever do. The Starks just keep getting the ram rod. And I really don't give two ____s about the blonde chick that's knocked up by Conan she's not an interesting character. Jon Snow appears to be the only hope of anything good left alive and they have barely spent anytime on him in the show. This show may work as a supplement to the novels but if you haven't read them it's just sadist tv.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

Damnit I shouldn't have read that.

 

[BadMoon]

Damnit I shouldn't have read that.

That's why I'm not reading them.

Please keep up the spoiler tags (people that read the book). I enjoy this thread but don't want anything spoiled before I read or watch them.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

DONT click on that if you haven't read books.

I hope that info isn't correct.

 

[DinoDB1975]

So when can we stop with the spoilers when discussing last night's episode?[/spoiler]

So is the spoiler moratorium lifted yet?





First warning.







Second warning.






FINAL WARNING.



The only thing I would have liked to be different in the final scene in last night's episode was if Ned had held his head up in pride before the executioner's deathblow. Not sure if the scene occurred as it was written in the book, but he looked a little too fearful for my taste. Of course, the fear in his eyes may have been for his children's lives, not his own.

And it was absolutely heartbreaking for Arya too look around at the crowd and see how bloodthirsty they were for her father's death. I don't know what I would like better: to have Arya avenge her father, or have Sansa do it.

I just hope that Lord Eddard Stark is avenged and truth comes out and his and his family's name cleared.

Small question (asking for confiormation about something) for those that read the series. From the preview of for next week's season finale...

Spoiler

The banner men with Robb Stark are chanting "A King of the North!". I'm assuming they name Robb their king and that's what the title (A Clash of Kings) of the second book / season refers to? I thought it referred to the impending clash bewteen Westoros and the Dothraki horde.

 

[Michael Crawford]

While some of the things wofford is ranting about (based on limited wiki knowledge) does occur, the story plays out extremely well. If you need Starks=good, Lannisters=bad, Starks kill Lannisters, then you probably need to stop watching. It's not a simplistic tale. Of course, if you enjoyed Deadwood (where the characters were as slimy or slimier than anyone in GoT, and rarely got what they deserved), then you should enjoy GoT.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Small question (asking for confiormation about something) for those that read the series. From the preview of for next week's season finale...

Spoiler

The banner men with Robb Stark are chanting "A King of the North!". I'm assuming they name Robb their king and that's what the title (A Clash of Kings) of the second book / season refers to? I thought it referred to the impending clash bewteen Westoros and the Dothraki horde.

That's some of it...

Spoiler

yes, they name Robb King of the North, something that hasn't existed in a long time, but don't forget Stannis and Renly, Robert's brothers. The reason the second book is named Clash of the Kings is because both of them name themselves King as well, and now you've got FOUR people fighting over who is in charge.

 

[The Josh]

Sounds like I may be dropping this show soon then. I don't need simplistic and actually enjoy shows/movies that have things not working out always the way you want. However, right now reading and checking things it sounds as if this show is gonna be constantly full of that.

 

[wofford29]

While some of the things wofford is ranting about (based on limited wiki knowledge) does occur, the story plays out extremely well. If you need Starks=good, Lannisters=bad, Starks kill Lannisters, then you probably need to stop watching. It's not a simplistic tale. Of course, if you enjoyed Deadwood (where the characters were as slimy or slimier than anyone in GoT, and rarely got what they deserved), then you should enjoy GoT.

If only some of what I typed occurs, please feel free to spoiler tag what doesn't happen because I was being sincere with my question of when does the vengeance occur. Like I said, for those who've read the novels, you being one of them, you know what happens. You're supplementing along with the knowledge of a story that has played out for you already. For those who haven't read, the way this is being structured for television is a good family vs. bad family story. Give fault to the writers of the show, the director, whoever, but it's very obvious that's how it's been presented thus far, and as television the viewer is only going to put up with so much before bailing on the series.

 

[Something Sexy]

While some of the things wofford is ranting about (based on limited wiki knowledge) does occur, the story plays out extremely well. If you need Starks=good, Lannisters=bad, Starks kill Lannisters, then you probably need to stop watching. It's not a simplistic tale. Of course, if you enjoyed Deadwood (where the characters were as slimy or slimier than anyone in GoT, and rarely got what they deserved), then you should enjoy GoT.

See here is my problem with the way they are representing these characters then. To me and I know others feel the same way, that is how they are portrayed to the audience. The Starks are good, noble and loyal and everything about the Lannisters is evil and bad. I feel you are suppose to like the Starks and hate the Lannisters and want all of the Lannisters to die and all of the Starks to live. Maybe in the books it is not so cut and dry but that is how they are dishing out the characters to me and I am eating it up. It is hard to compare to Deadwood because in Deadwood, like you say, even the good characters are bad but they show that to you right away, so you know what you are getting.

Again I have not read the books so maybe in the books it is a lot better written but if that is what they are going for in the show, they are doing a terrible job.

 

[DinoDB1975]

I don't know, that seems a little simplistic. I like Tyrion Lannister, and I wonder if he sides with his family in the future.

 

[The Josh]

Yup, the way things are being given to us from the start is Starks=Good and Lannisters=Bad. Wofford is right in that the way they're showing things is gonna start making folks bail on this series and never get many seasons on HBO.

 

[Eiko82]

Give fault to the writers of the show, the director, whoever, but it's very obvious that's how it's been presented thus far, and as television the viewer is only going to put up with so much before bailing on the series.

It's how George R.R. Martin presented them in his books. So it's only logical that the TV series would follow his vision.

 

[Michael Crawford]

I'm assuming at this point we can freely discuss last night's episode...

I understand wanting those that killed Ned to pay - but demanding that it happen right away and in just a certain way seems a bit like telling them that if they don't do this show in the same cookie cutter way you expect, then you won't watch. People complain that shows won't take risks, and when they do they complain they did something they didn't expect.

Give the show time to tell the story, and you may enjoy it. Some of Wofford's comments you may never see, since it takes thousands of pages to get to it all. And who knows - some of it may not remain the same.

And Tyrion is my favorite character - he's the noblest and finest man in the entire book.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

But. . . given the contents of Woffords spoiler tag (especially the deaths), the way the TV series is portraying the characters (being good vs. evil) it is very clear evil wins.

Which doesn't lead itself to high ratings.

 

[Michael Crawford]

I think it's a bad idea to take some wiki spoilers for a series of events that may or may not happen, and then allow them to poison your view on the show. The events need to occur in context to make sense and to be a good story - one liners about what might happen can ruin even the best story telling. As to whether 'evil' wins, let's not forget that this is a seven book series, one book not yet released and two more not even written. It might be a tad early to say anyone 'wins'.

Spoiler

Wofford discusses just the Lannisters and Starks, leaving out other major families like the Baratheons, Grayjoys and Targaryens, some of whom are going to be far more important than most of the Lannisters and Starks in the second season. There are four 'evil' Lannisters, and Wofford counts two of them among the dead. There are 8 Starks, and he counts three dead. Seems like the Lannisters take the bigger hit to me. Do Starks get hurt? Yes, but so do the Lannisters. The only good guys and bad guys in the story aren't just Starks and Lannisters either, and some of these get very just ends - and some do not. But it all makes sense in the way it plays out, and the overall story is a very satisfying one. At least for me.

 

[Mister Ski]

I wish I had stayed away from this thread, but I couldn't resist. I knew the _____ was going to hit the fan when Ned was killed off. It was a shock in the book too! There are many more shocks ahead - good or bad depends on your point of view. This series is very complex and twisting. It is not simple. In terms of vengeance, there is no straight line from point A to point B and that is what makes this series so great IMO. It is very realistic and unpredictable. Bad things happen to good people and the good people fight back, but in different ways which is what makes them the "good" guys and not the "bad" guys.

Wofford, all I can say to you is if you are willing, try and have some patience and stick with it. However, I can guarantee you that this series will NOT satisfy your definition of vengeance so if you can't accept that fact then this series is not for you and you should stop watching now. If you are willing to see how things play out, then try and keep this in mind...there are characters and events that you have not even met yet that have big implications on how things continue to unfold. Vengeance is a dish best served cold.

You did yourself a disservice of sorts by reading those spoilers you posted because while technically they might be "true", you are missing all the indirect actions, events and relationships that led to those spoilers. So while you got the end results, you missed out on all the events that led up to them.

One last thing about the books. All the chapters are told from the point of view (POV) of several of the main characters. This is a great device that lets the reader know all the inner thoughts, motivations, regrets, emotions, etc into that character. So while people are saying that Starks = good and Lannisters = bad, it is not that simple when you get to see the motivations, regrets, etc of those characters that doesn't always come across on screen. There are characters that will seek redemption and there are characters that will fall and my opinion of these characters changed in the course of reading the books. I think the tv series is following a similar path and you might be pleasantly surprised (or just more p!ssed off) with how things play out.

 

[The Josh]

I'm assuming at this point we can freely discuss last night's episode...

I understand wanting those that killed Ned to pay - but demanding that it happen right away and in just a certain way seems a bit like telling them that if they don't do this show in the same cookie cutter way you expect, then you won't watch. People complain that shows won't take risks, and when they do they complain they did something they didn't expect.

Give the show time to tell the story, and you may enjoy it. Some of Wofford's comments you may never see, since it takes thousands of pages to get to it all. And who knows - some of it may not remain the same.

And Tyrion is my favorite character - he's the noblest and finest man in the entire book.

Thing is they were designing this to be the same good beats evil. I don't mind them doing things a bit differently but like I said when you make the show appear going in one direction then do something else was shocking. If I had read the books I wouldn't have been but I hadn't so I was.

I also just don't think they've made the rest of the characters interesting enough yet to really make care yet. This season felt like they bult of Ned so much and having him die in season 1 was shocking.