HBO's Game of Thrones

[Wor-Gar]

i will take jj abrams back please....

Oh no, no, no, now let's not be rash.

 

[matticus]

fk.....going to be like the prequels all over again.

i will take jj abrams back please, even though he had some lazy writing moments too in star wars, it can't be worse than this.

It all must be burned down.

 

[rushmore223]

Somehow I doubt Benioff and Weiss will prove to be the worst thing that ever happened to Star Wars. I am unconcerned. [emoji38]

Agreed.

The hyperbole is strong in this thread.

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[karamazov80]

While I would be surprised if they outdid Lucas and friends with the awefulness of the prequels, I'm losing confidence in this duo pretty quickly, and wonder if Kennedy and company didn't make another bad bet, in the same vein of previously betting heavily on Johnson. They also handed him a trilogy, then get buyers remorse when he doesn't live up to their hype. Then they sign these guys before they prove that they can produce good, original work. But I guess it beats Ron Howard.

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[ShadowX81]

The worst part of LOST's ending was that JJ and the producers assured the audience after Season 1 that they weren't dead... because that's what everyone was guessing right off the bat. Then what did they do when JJ got busy with Mission Impossible an outgrew TV? They made them dead.

My biggest problem is that they were absolutely content to string along the audience with the promise that every mystery in the show had a pre-planned answer back in the day when the mysteries and fan theories were the main selling point to the show.

And then after the show ended they admitted that they were making it all up as they went along and that if we were watching the show for answers we were "watching the show wrong, because it was always about the characters and their journeys".

 

[ironwez20]

Damn first rian Johnson trilogy now these guys are gonna do one? What did Star Wars do to deserve constantly being ****ed like this

 

[Wor-Gar]

So any predictions for the final episode?

Dani dies (hopefully at Jon's hand), Jon can't accept the throne and wanders off to his North... but not before giving the throne to Sansa. Tyrion is her hand. Arya is Captain of the Guard. Sam is meister. Davos is... an advisor?

That's too easy, right?

 

[ShadowX81]

Given that the leaked spoilers were 100% spot on for episodes 4 and 5, im guessing the ending stated there is what we are getting. Boy this one is going to be a dumper fire.

 

[Knightstalker]

So any predictions for the final episode?

Dani dies (hopefully at Jon's hand), Jon can't accept the throne and wanders off to his North... but not before giving the throne to Sansa. Tyrion is her hand. Arya is Captain of the Guard. Sam is meister. Davos is... an advisor?

That's too easy, right?

They should just put Bran on the throne. He's already sitting down, so he's halfway there. Though now that I think about it, is there even an Iron Throne left after Dany's rampage?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Given that the leaked spoilers were 100% spot on for episodes 4 and 5, im guessing the ending stated there is what we are getting. Boy this one is going to be a dumper fire.

I haven't read those... have no interest in knowing until its here. Maybe it would be better to be prepped? I don't know.

But I'm on this ride and taking it to its end. I hope its not a dumpster fire... or if it is, I hope I can come to accept it.

 

[Lejuan]

I don't know what their role has been since day 1, but if they developed these books for TV, then they deserve a major pay day for that, and for having the good sense to follow the spirit of the books for what Martin provided to them.

But like Zach Snyder before them, those guys should leave the story development to the professionals, and just interpret existing stories instead of trying to do something original. This season has been pretty brutal, though some pieces (like the aforementioned goodbye between Tyrion and Jaimie) have been good to very good IMO. The beats they are hitting make some sense, but the show isn't doing a good job of bringing us from point A to point B. Dany's move last episode felt very rushed and forced, Jaimie's decision to go to King's Landing didn't make a lot of sense in context, Tyrion has seemed like a total fool for awhile now (getting played like a fiddle by Sansa???), the deal with the Hound and Arya was way too sentimental, Jon's behavior isn't particularly heroic re: Varys's death and how he responded to the carnage in King's Landing, Cersei's death portrayed her as a much more sympathetic character than she actually was, Euron's behavior toward Jaimie made zero sense, the "good guy" army turned into rapists and murderers way too quickly, etc. I guess it's easy to be a critic, but I've loved this show up until this season. Seems to have gone pretty far off the rails, and I also fail to see how they could right the ship with one remaining episode. I did like the interaction between the Hound and the Mountain. Gray Worm's behavior makes total sense, given what happened in the prior episode. Though he didn't do too much, Davos still seems like himself, though he disappeared once the action started up in King's Landing. And the action and special effects are all good. But on balance? Not great.

I'm not even against the show ending on a down note, suggesting that humanity is inherently brutish and hateful, and that the White Walkers may have been preferable to the alternative. But tell me this in a compelling way, please.

I just made the payday comment in response to SpartanRex's post about Headey's pay:screen time ratio.

I've lost my sense of perspective on this sadly. I can't appreciate the better aspects/scenes because my disappointment at the more sloppy parts wrenches me out of my suspension of disbelief. It's largely to do with the pacing and exposition of the characterisation. ie, Tyrion frees Jamie so he can do what exactly? See off Euron and die with Cersei under a pile of rubble? It wrecked any conflicted sense of humanity we're supposed to feel for the tyrannical Cersei, her sense of motherhood and her love for her brother.

Arya running about the place just seemed like her only purpose was to provide a change of camera.
Tyrion... reduced again to an idiot
Jon... ugh

 

[ShadowX81]

Im honestly just perplexed as to why it I so hard to get these things right.

A bunch of random amateurs on the internet with probably zero professional writing experience always have a better way it could have gone. From the Star Wars prequels, to Indy 4, to LOST, to the DCEU, new Star Wars and now this. It always comes down to bafflingly bad decisions by professionals and better alternatives being suggested by people on the internet. Why for the love of god is it so hard to just tell a good story when it seems like the world is bursting with good ideas? I really am baffled why it almost never works out.

I know people's easy answer is money, but genuinely good films seem to make a lot of money anyways. Its not as if a film makes more if it sucks. So why is a good story almost impossible to tell these days?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Arya is good when she's up against a million dead in the dark... but not so stealthy and smooth when buildings are crumbling and there's a lot of dust.

Wait -- why is that? She had swagger and total confidence marching up the crumbling stairs to off Cersei. Then Sandor said some nice words... and suddenly Arya is a scared little girl, running and running and running...

 

[Wor-Gar]

Im honestly just perplexed as to why it I so hard to get these things right.

A bunch of random amateurs on the internet with probably zero professional writing experience always have a better way it could have gone. From the Star Wars prequels, to Indy 4, to LOST, to the DCEU, new Star Wars and now this. It always comes down to bafflingly bad decisions by professionals and better alternatives being suggested by people on the internet. Why for the love of god is it so hard to just tell a good story when it seems like the world is bursting with good ideas? I really am baffled why it almost never works out.

If it was easy and all around us, we wouldn't appreciate it.

 

[ShadowX81]

It always seems to be both easy and all around us, but for some reason never makes it to screen.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Corporate filmmaking. Imagine the approval process by a long line of people with little to no creativity. Or worse, they fancy themselves to have good ideas, but don't.

That's where good ideas go to die.

 

[abake]

Interesting read. Some historical context from Athens, Rome, Nazi Germany, US at the end of WW2, Russian response to the Chechens, etc.

The Atlantic: Real History Explains Game of Thrones' Latest Twist.
https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...e=google&utm_campaign=newsstand-entertainment

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Cool read, thanks!


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[ShadowX81]

Corporate filmmaking. Imagine the approval process by a long line of people with little to no creativity. Or worse, they fancy themselves to have good ideas, but don't.

That's where good ideas go to die.

I just wonder how these people get to be where they are if they aren't good at creative decisions. As I stated earlier, its not as if there is more money to be made from a bad movie.

Let's take "The Last Jedi" for example. We can debate all we want over weather or to what degree it was a commercial disappointment. But there is no arguing that if it had been a less polarizing movie it would have made even more money than it did.

In the case of Benioff and Wiess, they have proven themselves to be talented storytellers and competent writers. Even as the cracks have increasingly started to show once they got past the books, it still had a lot more to love than criticize. "Battle of the Bastards" was long past the time of the books and yet easily one of the show's best episodes. And given how much its been a cultural juggernaut for HBO, they've probably been given about as long of a rope from HBO as they wanted. So what is the excuse for this season?

 

[Wor-Gar]

So what is the excuse for this season?

Lack of attention.

That simple. Their attention was split.

There's a lot of good in Season 8. There is. It's just strangely unbalanced. Two episodes to start for hellos and reunions, followed by one episode to kill the Night King. Unbalanced. Lot of time spent with the fighting Cleganes... but very little time with Cersei, the true villain of Westeros. Lots of fire-breathing but less of building Dani's madness.

Perhaps the writers see more in the subtleties than reads on the screen.

 

[ShadowX81]

The fact that Cersei and not The Night King is somehow the true villain of Westeros is in itself a massive structural problem. The whole point of all of this the whole time was that as people bicker over petty BS in King's landing, the real villain rides south to kill everyone. Cersei was never supposed to matter much in the end. The White Walkers were always the real threat.

Though to be honest neither of them really did anything or posed much of a threat at all. Even last week when Cersei had Dani, Tyrion, Grey Worm, and Drogan in the crosshairs of dozens of scorpions and basically could have ended the war right then and there but for some reason choose not to. Considering there was basically no resistance to Dani's invasion, Cersei wasn't any real villain at all. King's Landing overall seemed happier with her as queen.

To fix this, almost the whole season from Episode 3 onward would have to be completely overhauled from the ground up.