HBO's Game of Thrones

[YoNoSe]

I'm conflicted. Mostly I blame GRRM - I mean, -



Like the Beatles said, it's been a long, long, long time.

GRRM is still working on the penultimate book. There's no real evidence that he has any firm, meaningful ending forthcoming.

My completely ignorant gut feeling is that the showrunners followed the map faithfully until things suddenly hit crisis level - GRRM has been teasing the next book coming out "this year" or "next year" for ages. Left with hats in hands, they obviously went for visual spectacle and literal simplicity. Not being in their unenviable position, I'm slow to judge them.

Having said that, I was moved by the last episode. I've felt the Mad Queen coming for some time even if it could have used more transitional illustration this season. Maybe it's just a testament to the filmmaking prowess and visual storytelling. I don't feel fulfilled but I do feel awed. I don't object to any of it even while I know it drops the ball on many of the foreshadowing visions and prophecies.

It's a hell of thing. If GRRM ever winds it up (which I doubt, TBH) this could spur the Great War of Nerds. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. We do love to argue.

 

[Viking Spawn]

It all must be burned down.

You mean Drogon’s mimicking Godzilla in burning down the city? I like how his fire exploded buildings causing panic and chaos. The only thing missing was Godzilla’s famous roar! This was probably why I enjoyed this episode so much. And it just so happens Charles Dance is starring in the upcoming Godzilla King of the Monsters.

I haven't read those... have no interest in knowing until its here. Maybe it would be better to be prepped? I don't know.

But I'm on this ride and taking it to its end. I hope its not a dumpster fire... or if it is, I hope I can come to accept it.

I’m also holding out hope and trying to avoid spoilers. I’m hoping Jon has to off Dany, which will be heartbreaking for him and a sad ending which was implied in interviews.

 

[Sidewinder]

I think it is inevitable that Jon kills Dany.

A song of Ice and Fire. Two orphans, born a world apart, become leaders to their people, fall in love and fight together to save the realm. One will be remembered as a hero and the other will be remembered for their descent into darkness.

That is just my interpretation anyway.

For Dany's death scene I would like something in the way of her seeing Drogo and her son, as she had seen in her vision, allowing her to go in peace. Though it is probably unlikely.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Green]

Burn them, burn them all!!!!

 

[ZE_501]

Im honestly just perplexed as to why it I so hard to get these things right.

A bunch of random amateurs on the internet with probably zero professional writing experience always have a better way it could have gone. [...] when it seems like the world is bursting with good ideas? I really am baffled why it almost never works out.

[...]

Corporate filmmaking. Imagine the approval process by a long line of people with little to no creativity. Or worse, they fancy themselves to have good ideas, but don't.

That's where good ideas go to die.

This discussion comes up periodically on these boards, and I always offer my own experience working in film.

Wor-Gar nails it.

So many moving parts, so many spreadsheets and deadlines, with so many egos.

Ideas are a dime a dozen, skilful execution of said ideas is really difficult under the best of conditions.

A major corporate studio environment is far from the best of conditions. They have resources and talent but it gets choked by bureaucracy, spreadsheets, deadlines and egos.

I'm never surprised when film or television falls short. I'm surprised when it succeeds.

 

[ZE_501]

I just wonder how these people get to be where they are if they aren't good at creative decisions. [...]

They're good at the business of making film and television. They're obviously competent creatives, but it takes more than that to succeed in that environment. There are probably people with more talent, more ideas -- who wouldn't last a week in that industry's eco-system.

[...] Perhaps the writers see more in the subtleties than reads on the screen.

I've been seeing a lot of that lately thanks to the internet and social media. Writers explaining their work on films and television *after the fact* and many fans eat it up.

That's just very poor storytelling. Show, don't tell. Especially not in an interview after the actual narrative is wrapped up.

"Oh, what we *meant* by that was --"

"If the audience had been paying attention they would have realized --"


Nope. Cheap and sloppy.

 

[pixletwin]

Pretty sure I remembered hearing somewhere that the show-runners pinned Martin down for how it ends. So i think the bad writing comes from the question of “How do we get to there, from here?”

The answer is rushing (or completely ignored) character archs and storytelling.

(At least its pretty clear to me that is what’s happened.)

 

[ZE_501]

Pretty sure I remembered hearing somewhere that the show-runners pinned Martin down for how it ends. So i think the bad writing comes from the question of “How do we get to there, from here?”

The answer is rushing (or completely ignored) character archs and storytelling.

(At least its pretty clear to me that is what’s happened.)

Totally agree. "Ya can't get there from here."

 

[nearmint]

It might be more than symbolism.
What if she is dead and that was her death scene?
There was a very dream like quality to the sequence, there was no other action or individuals in that scene where as just few moments before the streets were filled in panic. It could be seen as her riding into the afterlife with her list complete. It’s the exact same horse that the leader of the Golden Co. was riding right up until Drogon made his entrance. The camera even lingered on the horses body. So far Jon has been reluctant to confront Dany about her actions. But what if he discovers Aryas body in the carnage? He didn’t know she was there did he? Wouldn’t that send him over the edge to take the action they need to wrap the series?
We may have all witnessed another characters death but won’t realize it until next weeks episode.

She does appear in the trailer for the last episode, though, without the horse.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I've been seeing a lot of that lately thanks to the internet and social media. Writers explaining their work on films and television *after the fact* and many fans eat it up.

That's just very poor storytelling. Show, don't tell. Especially not in an interview after the actual narrative is wrapped up.

"Oh, what we *meant* by that was --"

"If the audience had been paying attention they would have realized --"


Nope. Cheap and sloppy.

No, I agree with you, and that's what I meant but maybe didn't express it clearly -- I was intending to mean that perhaps writers are too deep into their own work and see subtleties that truly aren't there or clarified enough for the regular passive viewer to get. And yes, that would also be bad writing.

Now I hate the reverse of this every bit as much -- the sitcom syndrome where they hit you over the head with the idea -- but great films do it effortlessly and clearly. GoT used to do this all the time.

 

[Spartan Rex]

The sound editor for the show said there’s nothing to the theory (as far as he knows) that Jon was distracting the ice dragon so Arya could get to the Night King in time. Jon was just frustrated he couldn’t get past.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The sound editor for the show said there’s nothing to the theory (as far as he knows) that Jon was distracting the ice dragon so Arya could get to the Night King in time. Jon was just frustrated he couldn’t get past.

Seriously? That ruins it.

 

[a-dev]

The timing and geography probably weren't right for that anyway. So Jon truly was powerless at the battle of Winterfel and didn't do anything of major significance.

 

[a-dev]

I'm conflicted. Mostly I blame GRRM - I mean, -

View attachment 453870

Like the Beatles said, it's been a long, long, long time.

GRRM is still working on the penultimate book. There's no real evidence that he has any firm, meaningful ending forthcoming.

My completely ignorant gut feeling is that the showrunners followed the map faithfully until things suddenly hit crisis level - GRRM has been teasing the next book coming out "this year" or "next year" for ages. Left with hats in hands, they obviously went for visual spectacle and literal simplicity. Not being in their unenviable position, I'm slow to judge them.

Having said that, I was moved by the last episode. I've felt the Mad Queen coming for some time even if it could have used more transitional illustration this season. Maybe it's just a testament to the filmmaking prowess and visual storytelling. I don't feel fulfilled but I do feel awed. I don't object to any of it even while I know it drops the ball on many of the foreshadowing visions and prophecies.

It's a hell of thing. If GRRM ever winds it up (which I doubt, TBH) this could spur the Great War of Nerds. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. We do love to argue.

I can't seem to hate it like so many are. Even with some WTFs and criticisms that I agree with I've been thoroughly engaged and enjoying it like the previous season. I will always wonder though how many more people could have enjoyed it if the final two seasons weren't truncated as they have been. How many problems could have been fixed...

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I've been thinking that might be the reason for the short season. "Let's get this over with so we can do Star Wars." Comes out in 2022 and script has to be done way before then. KK ruining another franchise.

HBO offered them 10 episodes and a blank checkbook for his season and this is what we got

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

And that horse's name will be Plot Armor.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Coming soon to Westeros...

 

[ZE_501]

The timing and geography probably weren't right for that anyway. So Jon truly was powerless at the battle of Winterfell and didn't do anything of major significance.

Which is the kind of subverted expectations that make sense for GoT: heroes don't live long, or they can't be heroes all the time. I have no problem with that, other than still wondering why he came back to life. Arguably he was instrumental in engineering the defeat of the Night King even if he didn't do it himself, so if that's the case he's on borrowed time.

 

[Sassafras]

They're good at the business of making film and television. They're obviously competent creatives, but it takes more than that to succeed in that environment. There are probably people with more talent, more ideas -- who wouldn't last a week in that industry's eco-system.



I've been seeing a lot of that lately thanks to the internet and social media. Writers explaining their work on films and television *after the fact* and many fans eat it up.

That's just very poor storytelling. Show, don't tell. Especially not in an interview after the actual narrative is wrapped up.

"Oh, what we *meant* by that was --"

"If the audience had been paying attention they would have realized --"


Nope. Cheap and sloppy.

This. IMO also for me a huge problem with IW and EG. Too much "interpolation needed by audience" and makes-no-sense "after the fact" (like Cap and Bucky were on Skype according to the writers while Bucky was in Wakanda - beyond ridiculous as it's standard spy stuff u have limited contact if any if on the run and u shouldn't use Skype if ur a fugitive and Bucky was on a friggin' goat farm (with high speed international internet?) and I think the writers and directors just BS)

IMO which results in rushed scenes and imbalance like dragging minutes of stuff, like a dragon burning a city forever (back and forth zzz) and Arya acting out of character. Man, I was waiting for her to go back and help the Hound, or Jaqen to step out of a doorway and help her, or something better with Jaimie and Cersei (that's it WTF). I was waiting for the fallen dragon to pop out of the water. Holy *&&^% this was dull except standout moments like Tyrion and Jaimie.

So, haven't read spoilers tho at this point don't care so much, so maybe Jon will be the judge that swings the sword and Jon will look even sadder than he already does.

 

[Matt S]

Pretty sure I remembered hearing somewhere that the show-runners pinned Martin down for how it ends. So i think the bad writing comes from the question of “How do we get to there, from here?”

The answer is rushing (or completely ignored) character archs and storytelling.

(At least its pretty clear to me that is what’s happened.)

In this sense, the books are gonna be the way to go. Inside the character's mind and all of that...........and ten years from now, book 6 will finally release.


What I don't get, if Dany going "Mad King" was always gonna happen, why did they not plant the seeds years ago? Nothing we have seen from her would indicate she could snap so completely

Have you all seen the interview where George RR Martin and Stephen King interviewed each other, mostly just asking each other questions? Very telling as to why Martin is so damn slow. Pressure to write only masterpieces was my take away. I did love Martin's question to King, 'How the F do you write so fast?'