1/6 Hot Toys 1/6 Captain Marvel

[ZE_501]

Some idiot started the nonsense months ago and brainless sheep seem determined to continue the nonsense.

Yeeeah. I really don't see it, personally. The teasers kept her stoic, cold and mysterious like about a hundred other action heroes. Common trope. Subsequent trailers have shown more of her personality and they're pretty sparse, so I think the rest is just people running with something.

 

[ZE_501]

I don’t see how that’s relevant. From all marketing material so far, Larson seems really bored and lifeless. This what they have chosen to sell the movie.

I see what they're trying to do, is it questionable? Sure. On the other hand, maybe they wanted a tonally different trailer given Thor and Tony Stark seemed to have 'cute and snarky' locked down, Cap is 'earnest and heroic", etc. etc. -- She's an overpowered, enigmatic hero from SPACE. Guess they wanted a mystery.

From all interviews of Larsen, it seems she cares more about “activism” than the character or Marvel. I have to wonder if two (her seeming bored and uninterested in the character) are related.

Actor interviews are suspect anyway. When money and corporations are involved, PR tells everyone what to say or not based on focus groups and market research.

The last corporation I worked for wasn't even that big albeit it was relatively high profile, and there were rules of engagement for talking to the publlic, to the press, social media -- and upon leaving that corporation I signed an NDA so they could continue to control the public conversation.

Brie is an employee, albeit a very highly paid one, bound by contracts and held on a leash by PR.

 

[LeoNatan]

Actor interviews are suspect anyway. When money and corporations are involved, PR tells everyone what to say or not based on focus groups and market research.

The last corporation I worked for wasn't even that big albeit it was relatively high profile, and there were rules of engagement for talking to the publlic, to the press, social media -- and upon leaving that corporation I signed an NDA so they could continue to control the public conversation.

Brie is an employee, albeit a very highly paid one, bound by contracts and held on a leash by PR.

But that's what is worrying me the most, they wen't full on "woke" "activisim" nonsense, instead of pushing a good film. I mean, I guess it worked enough for them with Black Panther, which turned a mediocre at best flick into an Oscar Nominated Masterpiece rolleyes2). I'm getting the same vibe here, a mediocre flick trying to wink wink to specific crowds to get more money.

I see what they're trying to do, is it questionable? Sure. On the other hand, maybe they wanted a tonally different trailer given Thor and Tony Stark seemed to have 'cute and snarky' locked down, Cap is 'earnest and heroic", etc. etc. -- She's an overpowered, enigmatic hero from SPACE. Guess they wanted a mystery.

Mystery and seriousness is not an excuse for bland acting. Looking at Nolan films, many of his characters are serious and often there is little humor and snark, but I have never gotten a feel from one of the trailers that an actor is so badly miscast.

 

[DCFett]

Mediocre? Maybe you need to see if you can look through another lens other than your own?

 

[Mara]

But that's what is worrying me the most, they wen't full on "woke" "activisim" nonsense, instead of pushing a good film. I mean, I guess it worked enough for them with Black Panther, which turned a mediocre at best flick into an Oscar Nominated Masterpiece rolleyes2). I'm getting the same vibe here, a mediocre flick trying to wink wink to specific crowds to get more money.

Beside getting a best pic nom it also outgrossed Infinity War, meaning millions of people were waiting and got to see something
In Black Panther they weren’t getting in any other super hero movie. And let’s get brutally honest for a sec, none of these films are exactly high art, and that’s ok!

This is proof more than anything that maybe some super hero movies are just not made for you. I think this fact scares some people to death, to the point they get angry online, but the more diverse the genre gets, the more everyone wins. We get more movies, the genre does not get stagnate. We see more of the characters we want to see.

 

[ZE_501]

But that's what is worrying me the most, they wen't full on "woke" "activisim" nonsense, instead of pushing a good film. I mean, I guess it worked enough for them with Black Panther, which turned a mediocre at best flick into an Oscar Nominated Masterpiece rolleyes2). I'm getting the same vibe here, a mediocre flick trying to wink wink to specific crowds to get more money.

There is a given socio-political climate that marketing weasels will naturally target, so no surprise there. I find all Marvel films entertaining to one degree or another, but not all of them are good -- whether or not heavy-handed demographic targeting hurts this film on a creative level remains to be seen. Possible, but so are a number of other outcomes.

As for BP -- I love what the film represents and love the titular character. Like many Marvel (and Star Wars) films, there are set-pieces that I love, but the film itself as a whole I find ... good, within the context of MCU films, but it falls short of greatness to me. The Oscar nomination is a touch baffling but it's not the worst or most puzzling thing the hoary old Academy has done, not by a longshot. I don't take the Oscars that seriously anyway.

 

[LeoNatan]

Mediocre? Maybe you need to see if you can look through another lens other than your own?

An ultra-nationalist, technologically advanced African country that solves its most serious of decisions by having a fight to the death by the waterfall, while some crazy painted people dance and shout around, scored to a "n-word n-word" rap music. So much black empowerment!

Yes, I'd say "mediocre" is the most generous I can think of.

Aquaman is another mediocre flick, with a very similar plot to this, yet why was it not nominated for Oscar?

 

[ZE_501]

Mediocre? Maybe you need to see if you can look through another lens other than your own?

Structural issues aside, the film means a lot that transcends the popcorn genre.

Beside getting a best pic nom it also outgrossed Infinity War, meaning millions of people were waiting and got to see something in Black Panther they weren’t getting in any other super hero movie. And let’s get brutally honest for a sec, none of these films are exactly high art, and that’s ok!

This is proof more than anything that maybe some super hero movies are just not made for you. I think this fact scares some people to death, to the point they get angry online, but the more diverse the genre gets, the more everyone wins. We get more movies, the genre does not get stagnate. We see more of the characters we want to see.

I agree with most of this, but I will say that Black Panther is for everyone, just like (as someone on this forum said a long time ago) Bruce Lee is for everyone, and Luke Skywalker and Wonder Woman are for everyone.

That's why we're all (most of us?) adults and still collecting action figure dolls. There's something universal and worthwhile in these narratives that resonate with every single one of us.

 

[LeoNatan]

This is proof more than anything that maybe some super hero movies are just not made for you. I think this fact scares some people to death, to the point they get angry online, but the more diverse the genre gets, the more everyone wins. We get more movies, the genre does not get stagnate. We see more of the characters we want to see.

I'm not sure what that means. We should all strive to have good plots in our movies, regardless of the lead's gender or skin color. Plot.

None of the Marvel flicks are high art, agreed on that, but some elevate much higher than others. I also hated Iron Man 2&3, for example, but the fact that BP has been seen as genre-defying is hilarious to me, and makes me more annoyed with that than the others.

 

[LeoNatan]

As for BP -- I love what the film represents

You do? You love that a black empowerment film basks in tribal middle ages culture which can only solve their problems by a fight to the death? A black empowerment that is scored with rap music with "n-word" in the lyrics? How is that even black empowerment?

 

[Craig Walker]

Mediocre? Maybe you need to see if you can look through another lens other than your own?

1st half was above average. 2nd half was below average. Oscar? Laughable.

 

[ZE_501]

You do? You love that a black empowerment film basks in tribal middle ages culture which can only solve their problems by a fight to the death? A black empowerment that is scored with rap music with "*****" in the lyrics? How is that even black empowerment?

To be honest, I haven't analyzed it that closely, and to be fair, maybe I should. But in a broad sense, I'm talking about a kid seeing a superhero that looks like themselves on the big screen. I really think that matters.

You do bring up salient points for a critical look at the tropes utilized in the film, no argument there.

 

[gmoney5000]

I cannot understand those people who get excited to get a deal on a figure nobody wants and is on sale precisely for that reason. The same people who buy pants or a shirt they really don’t love but buy it just because it’s extremely discounted.
You know what, those people end up what a closet full of generic looking clothes and cabinets full of uninspiring, dull figures with no significance, no landmarks, no historical milestones...no spirit.
If you don’t have the guts to pay up day one on a figure that stirs your soul whether you take a loss on it or it appreciates to 3x its price, then you will never possess the excitement and satisfaction of owning something that you thought was special from the beginning and now everyone wants to acquire but cannot find.

There's no wrong or right way to collect, but there definitely is for spending money.

 

[DCFett]

What makes you an expert in black empowerment? Just asking cause you keep beating that drum.

I'd say you may be missing the point and the issues you bring up are very surface. I'd encourage you to read more and watch less.

 

[LeoNatan]

To be honest, I haven't analyzed it that closely, and to be fair, maybe I should. But in a broad sense, I'm talking about a kid seeing a superhero that looks like themselves on the big screen. I really think that matters.

You do bring up salient points for a critical look at the tropes utilized in the film, no argument there.

I think that emotional connection through a good story is more important than looking similar, but in a modern film, there is no reason not to have both. The problem is when a mediocre flick is presented to said children as some sort of empowerment, they will get the wrong ideas. This is what I fear here as well, identity politics for the sake of identity politics.

You say that marketing weasels will be marketing weasels, but that has a bad social impact which should be considered. Obviously, such consideration will not come from "critics" which have proven to be incapable of critical thought for the most part, so it should come from the public.

Rather than calling anyone who doesn't like their silly precious film as "straight white men sexist" or "straight white men racist", some thought should be put whether a plot is worthy of such high regard, and if not, what is the motive behind pushing such an agenda.

 

[DCFett]

And while the movie has gotten an Oscar nod, I never put much stock into this sort of thing. All the awards shows are the entertainers giving each other awards. No big stretch to understand they aren't going to be harsh on their craft. Just saying it's not a third party making judgement. But one thing you can say is that all the nominees ever offer some sort of social commentary, vast historic significance, or mind provoking thought. I don't always get it either, but I'm sure there's always something of significance there. Can't you at least acknowledge that maybe YOU just don't get it?

 

[LeoNatan]

And while the movie has gotten an Oscar nod, I never put much stock into this sort of thing. All the awards shows are the entertainers giving each other awards. No big stretch to understand they aren't going to be harsh on their craft. Just saying it's not a third party making judgement. But one thing you can say is that all the nominees ever offer some sort of social commentary, vast historic significance, or mind provoking thought. I don't always get it either, but I'm sure there's always something of significance there. Can't you at least acknowledge that maybe YOU just don't get it?

I "don't get it" in the sense that I don't think it's a good movie. I have said that several times . But it's more than that. Someone brought the Titanic wins, and while that movie is not my cup of tea either, it is at least lacking any pretentiousness of social commentary. It's also a much grander cinematic achievement than BP.

The significance to me of an Oscar is the encouragement of ideas. Yes, it's a circlejerk of the industry awarding itself, but still. So I do have a stake that I want quality to be awarded, and for the right reasons.

To me BP is offensive to black culture. I have not seen one mature analysis which attempts to disprove my view. Only hysteric "you're racist" nonsense. On the other hand, I have seen black people agree with my views. So, you know...

 

[ZE_501]

I think that emotional connection through a good story is more important than looking similar, but in a modern film, there is no reason not to have both.

I concur.

The problem is when a mediocre flick is presented to said children as some sort of empowerment, they will get the wrong ideas. This is what I fear here as well, identity politics for the sake of identity politics.

This is an unpopular stance with certain elements of what I would call the Radical Left who admittedly may be seen to shout down attempts at nuanced discussion, but I still think they're a vocal minority.

I don't know, a decade ago these discussions weren't so much in the forefront and I think that in spite of the lunatic fringe, it's better that these are mainstream topics now. Myself I'm pretty left-leaning and I think that sometimes we as a culture may over-correct -- but not as much as some vocal segments would have us believe. Given the weight of history and legacy power structures, it's again, not the worst thing that could happen while we -- hopefully -- seek some kind of fair and balanced equilibrium. Human nature being what it is, we'll never quite get there. And as most of us can see, power and the accompanying issues are highly intersectional which is why this is such a damn rabbit-hole.

You say that marketing weasels will be marketing weasels, but that has a bad social impact which should be considered. Obviously, such consideration will not come from "critics" which have proven to be incapable of critical thought for the most part, so it should come from the public.

Rather than calling anyone who doesn't like their silly precious film as "straight white men sexist" or "straight white men racist", some thought should be put whether a plot is worthy of such high regard, and if not, what is the motive behind pushing such an agenda.

Marketing has been having a bad social impact one way or another for decades across all segments of society. The only thing we can do in the face of these massive engines of commerce is teach critical thinking. On this you and I can agree.

 

[subzro]

I think that emotional connection through a good story is more important than looking similar, but in a modern film, there is no reason not to have both. The problem is when a mediocre flick is presented to said children as some sort of empowerment, they will get the wrong ideas. This is what I fear here as well, identity politics for the sake of identity politics.

You say that marketing weasels will be marketing weasels, but that has a bad social impact which should be considered. Obviously, such consideration will not come from "critics" which have proven to be incapable of critical thought for the most part, so it should come from the public.

Rather than calling anyone who doesn't like their silly precious film as "straight white men sexist" or "straight white men racist", some thought should be put whether a plot is worthy of such high regard, and if not, what is the motive behind pushing such an agenda.

Just because YOU think it's mediocre doesnt mean it is. There are things i hate that are super popular, win awards, etc but i don't let i bother me just because others enjoy it. love it or hate it It's just my opinion on something and god knows i don't know everything.

 

[DCFett]

I "don't get it" in the sense that I don't think it's a good movie.

Right, so you don't get why it matters. Maybe just accept that you don't have the experience or knowledge to see why it's being recognized. No need to trash it for what it represents, especially if you aren't an expert in the social arena in which it lives. It's ok to be ignorant about something, that's not a bad thing.

My wife and I tried to watch Birdman, a film I was so waiting to see and much awarded. Didnt really like it and we didnt finish it. I didnt get it, but I'm sure for whatever reasons that escape me, it's a good film. I'd like to know why, but because I don't, doesn't make me crap on it to no end.