Hot Toys 1/6 The Suicide Squad King Shark

[Alatar]

I disagree with you on so many levels. I feel Snyder is a hack. He doesn't understand or comprehend his source materials on the heightened level he attempts so he fills in the cracks with either MTV visuals or gothic "it's so dark and brooding" feels or a fancy word ("deconstruction") that someone else used to great effect.

His only movie that was wholly entertaining was 300, because it stuck to the source material, which played to his strengths. And it had Frank Miller standing right next to Snyder guiding his hand. I would think it's the least "Snyder" version of a film he is attached to. I'm thankful Watchmen was finally made so that I could view it in cinematic form, but it missed so many beats from the source material that it was like a game of telephone 27 steps down the communication chain.

You could prescreen BvS to 100 Rhodes scholars, it isn't going to make the film any smarter. The truth is the movie is a baffling slog to watch. It's a visual essay that failed to deliver its main theme. That's why it doesn't get the reaction from the masses that you may feel when you watch it. It's not fun.

I personally feel Snyder's legacy will ultimately be that he "tries" to do things...make a modern Watchmen movie, deconstruct the trinity of DC, make fetch happen with 1.33:1 aspect ratio.

I never read Phillip's junket for Joker, I never knew it existed. But I can tell you that Joker delivered on so many levels because I felt it when I watched it. That's what movies need to do. And they need to do this on their own, not with a PR blitzkrieg or social media meddling or someone explaining the why or intentions of things. It needs to happen when a viewer is planted in their seat in the theater or watching on a tablet in bed. Cinema is about the end result. We may enjoy the craft and learning more about how ideas and theories became something tangible in film form. But the movie itself needs to be good for people to care about it. That's what Snyder fails to do when he attempts to be an intellectual. This isn't little league t-ball, you shouldn't receive accolades for trying.

Being an auteur doesn't mean that his movies are good. It only means that he made them his way.

(I'm using "good" as a catch-all above. It can mean many things, enjoyable, thought-provoking, disturbing, important.)

Of course you’re entitled to that opinion, and you’re not alone. Would it be fair to say, though, that what isn’t to your own personal liking isn’t “bad” or “poor filmmaking?” Obviously many of us experience the films very differently than you do.

Actually I’d be genuinely curious what you think of the basic tenets for film criticism that I express here: Why Man of Steel Works

For convenience sake a quick copy/paste of the salient part:

…[F]or me, a film succeeds in the most basic terms if:

1) I care what happens to the characters (they matter to me, their fate matters to me)

2) I become interested and engaged in the story itself and how it unfolds (it takes me on a journey, and I’m willing to go on it)

3) I appreciate the cinematic craft of storytelling, i.e., specifically through the medium of film.

The latter consists of cinematography, the screenplay and script, acting performances, pacing of the action, CGI (where applicable), etc., and how well the director orchestrates all the various elements of the film. We can offer objective evidence for these three criteria in our own appreciation of a film. But I assert again that the deepest reasons why one might appreciate a film as such ultimately varies individually, from person to person. I will add that I can often enjoy a film for the most part even when only one or two of these elements are mostly in place, and even without them succeeding brilliantly. (I tend to be pretty forgiving as a viewer.)

This second basic idea I wish to posit is that comic books and film are fundamentally different mediums; and what “works” in the comics should not be expected to always translate well to the silver screen. The comic book uses exaggeration of what it is to be human through a kind of fantastic surrealism in which the actors (usually) possess god-like powers. The panels of a comic book are typically a saturated form of soap opera themes brought to life through the wildest realms of the creative imagination. The comic book is an imaginative space that is unfettered by “realism.” The dream world gives us much the same thing. But when it comes to serious film-making, it probably makes more sense bridge the gap between the purely imaginative and how such circumstances and events might actually take shape “in the real world” if they could actually happen.

So the comic book superhero film, in order to connect with the greatest number of fans, is most likely to be an adaptation of the comic book foundation. That is the most reasonable and mature expectation for a viewer to have, I would say. I can only speak for myself here, but I am happy for it. The source material in the comics can retain its own integrity as an art form—but the film adaptation makes it more relatable to everyday life. Myself, I prefer to see something fresh and more relatable done with the mythic and human psychological themes of the comic book superhero through cinema.

 

[jal76]

I disagree with you on so many levels. I feel Snyder is a hack. He doesn't understand or comprehend his source materials on the heightened level he attempts so he fills in the cracks with either MTV visuals or gothic "it's so dark and brooding" feels or a fancy word ("deconstruction") that someone else used to great effect.

His only movie that was wholly entertaining was 300, because it stuck to the source material, which played to his strengths. And it had Frank Miller standing right next to Snyder guiding his hand. I would think it's the least "Snyder" version of a film he is attached to. I'm thankful Watchmen was finally made so that I could view it in cinematic form, but it missed so many beats from the source material that it was like a game of telephone 27 steps down the communication chain.

You could prescreen BvS to 100 Rhodes scholars, it isn't going to make the film any smarter. The truth is the movie is a baffling slog to watch. It's a visual essay that failed to deliver its main theme. That's why it doesn't get the reaction from the masses that you may feel when you watch it.

I personally feel Snyder's legacy will ultimately be that he "tries" to do things...make a modern Watchmen movie, deconstruct the trinity of DC, make fetch happen with 1.33:1 aspect ratio.

I never read Phillip's junket for Joker, I never knew it existed. But I can tell you that Joker delivered on so many levels because I felt it when I watched it. That's what movies need to do. And they need to do this on their own, not with a PR blitzkrieg or social media meddling or someone explaining the why or intentions of things. It needs to happen when a viewer is planted in their seat in the theater or watching on a tablet in bed. Cinema is about the end result. We may enjoy the craft and learning more about how ideas and theories became something tangible in film form. But the movie itself needs to be good for people to care about it. That's what Snyder fails to do when he attempts to be an intellectual. This isn't little league t-ball, you shouldn't receive accolades for trying.

Being an auteur doesn't mean that his movies are good. It only means that he made them his way.

(I'm using "good" as a catch-all above. It can mean many things, enjoyable, thought-provoking, disturbing, important.)

Among the various things that I disagree with in this post…factually Frank Miller was not “looking over Zack Snyder’s shoulder” when he made 300. That was ALL Snyder. Feel free to bash him, but don’t try to give someone else credit for any of his work that you may have liked.
Miller received an Executive Producer credit as the creator of the Graphic Novel and Snyder reviewed his own changes to Miller’s source material with Miller as a courtesy…but Snyder made the film without any direct involvement from Miller.
I think you are confusing 300 with Sin City which Miller co-directed with Robert Rodriguez.

 

[FattyMoBookyButt]

Would it be fair to say, though, that what isn’t to your own personal liking isn’t “bad” or “poor filmmaking?” Obviously many of us experience the films very differently than you do.

Absolutely, 100% agree with this.

I'm not attempting to dissuade you from your own opinions and that's why I didn't include anything along those lines in my other post.

I posted my opinions to offer what I perceive to be the majority counterpoint to a subject that I'm sure you have spent more time thinking about than I have. I'm glad you enjoy the movies. We are experiencing of an embarrassment of riches and there's more than enough content to appease all the different tastes and sensibilities.

I added the MoS post to my reading list and I'll ingest it when I have the time.

 

[Alatar]

What is most remarkable about 300 (the film) to me is that it is almost panel-for-panel/shot-for-shot a visual translation of what’s in the graphic novel.

 

[FattyMoBookyButt]

Among the various things that I disagree with in this post…factually Frank Miller was not “looking over Zack Snyder’s shoulder” when he made 300. That was ALL Snyder. Feel free to bash him, but don’t try to give someone else credit for any of his work that you may have liked.
Miller received an Executive Producer credit as the creator of the Graphic Novel and Snyder reviewed his own changes to Miller’s source material with Miller as a courtesy…but Snyder made the film without any direct involvement from Miller.
I think you are confusing 300 with Sin City which Miller co-directed with Robert Rodriguez.

I thought he was heavily involved with 300 and that lead to his attempt to get in the guild for Sin City. I now know that Rodriguez left the guild because they wouldn't allow 2 directors to be listed on a film that wasn't a 'bonafide team'. I was going from pure memory and I'm sure you are correct and I was incorrect.

However much he was or wasn't involved, it was clearly an homage and direct interpretation of the comic/graphic novel. It's an awesome movie. Snyder did an incredible job.

 

[jal76]

I thought he was heavily involved with 300 and that lead to his attempt to get in the guild for Sin City. I now know that Rodriguez left the guild because they wouldn't allow 2 directors to be listed on a film that wasn't a 'bonafide team'. I was going from pure memory and I'm sure you are correct and I was incorrect.

However much he was or wasn't involved, it was clearly an homage and direct interpretation of the comic/graphic novel. It's an awesome movie. Snyder did an incredible job.

Yep…no worries it’s an honest mistake to make. Interestingly Sin City came first.

 

[jespernicolaj]

People forget that MoS‘s box office was more than MCU films of that era which were the introductory solo films for the MCU. E.g., Iron Man, Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger. Also made more than Iron Man 2. And that is all adjusted for inflation. (Here are the tools required if anyone doubts it: The Numbers - Where Data and the Movie Business Meet and Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2021.)

BvS is a Watchmen-like deconstruction which freaked a lot of people out at the time, and still does. A lot of critics and fans alike really have no idea what deconstruction even is, i.e., the tremendous impact that Alan Moore’s and Dave Gibbons Watchmen and Frank Miller’s The Dark Knight Returns had on the comics in 1986. And what Snyder was doing with that.

BvS is a serious auteur film through and through. It’s amazing that it ever even got greenlit. It still pulled in $875M which is frankly amazing. If 1) at least some critics out there had understood it (and so many of them absolutely did not, they really did not) and it had some explanation of what it was doing, and, 2) if the so-called “UE” 3:01 runtime version (which was as originally intended but WB changed to 2:31 at the eleventh hour only a few weeks prior to opening weekend) had been released, I believe it would have cleared $1B.

When you look at what a masterful job Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix did with their junket educating critics and entertainment media journalists about what the film is doing, imho that made all the difference for the critical acceptance of Joker. Those two were very good at explaining it. On the other hand, Zack Snyder is unfortunately learning disabled (IRRC he has shared that… ADHD? anyway…) and it is at times very challenging to listen to him try to explain what he’s doing. He can be painfully inarticulate to be perfectly honest. His wife Debby is better at it, but as an professional executive producer she uses all the corporate-speak and it comes off as pretty canned.

In hindsight WB should have in advance pre-screened BvS to a panel of auteur directors such as Nolan, Tarantino, Villanueve, Del Toro, Fincher, Rodriguez, Cameron, and without giving away too much released a short documentary on why the film is so damn good—again, given what it is. It’d be smart for David Zaslav (CEO of Warner Brothers Discovery which finalizes next year) to get something like that into production even now. Because it absolutely is not too late to resume Snyder’s JL 2 and 3 within the DC multiverse next year. They could market it as a sort of Snyder-sance, if you will. Educate the masses that MoS and BvS truly were ahead of their time, etc. And be open about the fact that WB’s establishment (Emmerich, Tsujihara, Johns) reacted out of fear versus embracing and promoting a bold auteur vision.

Preach, brother, Preach. I agree with you on so many levels.

 

[matticus]

This thread turned into Bible length lol. People complain about price, now complain about poseability. Dafuq? This might be the cheapest figure since 2015.

 

[yacobschlomo]

I'd prefer more than Hasbro Titan Hero level articulation. I'd like to put him in a "hand" or "nom nom" (holding a body part to his mouth or grabbing another character with both hands) pose - this can't do either. There shouldn't be a complete trade off between price and articulation.

 

[jal76]

I'd prefer more than Hasbro Titan Hero level articulation. I'd like to put him in a "hand" or "nom nom" (holding a body part to his mouth or grabbing another character with both hands) pose - this can't do either. There shouldn't be a complete trade off between price and articulation.

You should buy the McFarlane figure…has 22 whole points of articulation for you.
Can’t wait for this awesome figure at that even more awesome price!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Why does no one here have a King Shark avatar? Jal, come on, man -- go King Shark!

 

[yacobschlomo]

You should buy the McFarlane figure…has 22 whole points of articulation for you.
Can’t wait for this awesome figure at that even more awesome price!

I don't collect much in 1/12 scale, otherwise I would. Just stating what I would have personally like. I buy 1/6 figures so I can put them in some cool/fun poses and not a big fan when articulation is too limited. I would have enjoyed the Hulk figure a lot less without the articulation it had. But again that's me and I'd prefer to pay a bit more for the articulation.

 

[jal76]

Why does no one here have a King Shark avatar? Jal, come on, man -- go King Shark!

Ha ha I’m thinking about it!

 

[greygoose]

Ha ha I’m thinking about it!

Do it!

 

[GreenRanger-Kush]

The two sea Kings

 

[tworow2]

Whatever you think of his superhero stuff, putting 'Zombie' in a zombie movie is the hackiest thing that ever hacked.

 

[dragonsleeper]

PO'ed

 

[jal76]

Whatever you think of his superhero stuff, putting 'Zombie' in a zombie movie is the hackiest thing that ever hacked.

What are you talking about? James Gunn hasn’t made any Zombie movies? He wrote Dawn of the Dead, but screenwriters don’t score Directors’ films, Directors do that, along with all of the other filmmaking decisions themselves, so obviously you’re not taking about that…?

 

[2littlemoney]

just ordered this bad boy, release date is q4 2022. all the joints(shoulder, waist, ankle) except the hands are movable in only one plane and there are no joints on the knees.

 

[Hoody999]

Am starting to wonder if this is a "one and done" job....