Monster post that has very little to do with Batman Returns coming up. tl:dr -ers can skip to the last line.
You're just upset because Earle was a meanie to Fox, your avatar.
Yeah! How dare he hurt widdle Morgie's fweelings!
DiFabio, a lot of your post is true, and some of it flat out agrees with me too, but some of it is also the usual stuff that we already know you didn't like about TDKR that doesn't directly relate to whether Earle was a bad guy or not (Blake figuring out who Bruce was from a facial expression), so I won't comment on that--unless you want me to.
In all seriousness though, while I see your point, I don't think Earle's actions were really that questionable in the final film. Weapons were their expertise. You talk about tech to be used for "good"? Well, that's all questionable. In real life we're dealing with that now with drones and stuff. Maybe in Earle's mind, the microwave emitter could be used for the greater good and used for America? Sure, being a businessman, it was probably about profit, but still. I've seen a helluva alot worse.
Here you're agreeing with me. Like I said, there is nothing illegal about W.E., a defense contractor, making weapons that are meant for combat. This part is going to sound obvious, but it's illegal to make
illegal weapons, that are used to do
illegal things in combat. The difference between the Tumblers (yes even the ones with heat seeking missiles) and the Microwave Emitter that disperses "water-based
chemical agents into the air" is that one is legal in combat, and one is not. Sure you can argue that war is not about playing fair, and when someone is trying to kill you, you try to kill them first by any means necessary, but the fact is there actually are "laws" of war, and the US is officially signed on in agreement with those "rules", one of which is that we don't use chemicals on the enemy (but missiles are fine
) It doesn't matter if Earle thinks the M.E. could give the US an advantage in combat over an enemy force...OF COURSE chemical weapons would give the armed force that uses it an advantage--an
illegal advantage.
Then there's a laundry list of things in the Bat-movies since Schumacher that Bruce is supposedly responsible for. First, I disagree on the Nygma thing. Bruce immediately shut down his project once he understood the ethical implications of it. Maybe he should have taken a sledgehammer to it and fired Nygma on the spot? Nygma's "beef" with Bruce Wayne was all in his mind. Bruce treated him pretty respectfully in that scene when he rejected his project, (and even later when meeting him as a business rival at his party) and Nygma totally idolized him...until he got that very polite rejection--which
he decided to take personally. Not Bruce's fault. I'm not going to get into the telescope in B&R because 1) I haven't seen that movie in years so I can't remember enough to comment on it...and 2) I'm not going to rewatch it anytime soon because...it's B&R
In The Dark Knight, Fox seems hypocritical *****ing and preaching to Batman about how the Sonar concept is "wrong" after all the stuff he's partaken in. Let's remember, he was part of the weapons project that BUILDS this stuff. I guess it's alright to build tanks, "bridging vehicles" with massive cannons, spying on/manipulating Chinese partners with similar sonar tech, not drowning a potentially dangerous weapon as soon as you get the chance, etc.
Back from a Schumacher film to the Nolanverse (...in a Batman Returns figure thread
) I've already stated the differences between the legality and the potential use for "good" of Tumblers, the M.E. and the Nuclear Device twice now so I'll try not to get into it again. Yes, you're EXACTLY right, it's "alright" (as in
legal) for a defense contractor "to build tanks, "bridging vehicles" with massive cannons" etc...as for the Sonar imaging device: Fox is NOT a hypocrite for using the Sonar tech in the cellphone to help Batman capture Lau. First of all Lau is not some legitmate businessman Chinese partner that Bruce Wayne is using his tech to spy on just for the sake of it (industrial espionage for profit or whatever). At that point in the film Wayne and Fox already suspect that Lau's "revenue stream is off the charts...maybe even illegal" and they decide to cancel the business deal. That would have been the end of it, IF Batman did not find out, thanks to the info from Gordon and Dent, what exactly was funding Lau's illegal revenue stream: dealing with the Gotham mob. At that point, all bets are off. At that point, in Batman's eye's Lau is no longer a Chinese partner that "maybe" have an illegal revenue stream, he is now a man who is
definitely laundering and hiding money for organized crime...making him a definite criminal himself. It's not Bruce Wayne using his tech to spy on a legit business partner, it's Batman using his tech to bring a known criminal to justice.
And while I understand why Bruce and Lucius didn't drown the nuclear device right away once they realized what it
could do---I totally agree with you (and the HISHE clip
)---Fox should have drowned it (and possibly himself--small price to pay to save millions of innocent people) once Bane took him down there and he knew what he was up to.
And from what we've seen, there's no way Earle was as bad as Max Shreck. Max Shreck was evil. The worst thing Earle did was fire an upstanding Wayne Enterprises employee that knew too much and got a little pissy with him, Shreck KILLED his. He had Fred Atkins cut up into little pieces, tried killing his secretary by pushing her out of a window, worked with a crime/terrorist organization, knowingly sucking the life out of Gotham, etc.
Again, you're agreeing with this guy:
And, just to tie it back to Batman Returns, Earle is the type of corrupt corporate executive that Max Shrek is, clearly willing to get involved in anything, no matter how dangerous, shady or downright illegal, for the potential of profit. The difference is we know Shrek has killed and attempted to kill those that got in his way or threatened to expose him (evidenced by Fred's hand and shooting Selina and Batman). We haven't seen Earle go that far and get blood on his hands, but he also hasn't been backed into a corner like Shrek was.
It always bugged me that frickin' Fredericks from Begins came back, but Earle was never heard from again. Earle seemed like a smart cookie. If Coleman Reese could put two and two together, certainly Mr. Earle could have put together the fact that Batman was using his Wayne tech. But nah, we get Joseph Gordon Levitt who can tell Bruce is Batman based on a look and a "feeling in my bones".
Earle got fired, Fredricks didn't do anything shady or illegal, so that's the in-story reason he's back. (Plus John Nolan, who plays Fredricks, is Christopher Nolan's uncle, that's the real-world reason.
) But this brings me to another point that I forgot to bring up earlier about why Fox is way more worthy to run W.E. than Earle. How do you know Earle is a "smart cookie"? As a businessman, he's incompetent. He does zero due diligence on exactly who is behind the fronts buying up W.E. shares, or else Bruce wouldn't have been able to blindside him. And why would he have recognized Batman using Wayne Tech? According to the dialogue with Fox he that "big shot" never comes down there to even see the stuff. He can't keep track of one of his companies most dangerous (and illegal) devices. Fox on the other hand can instantly recall what the Microwave Emmitter is and what it does, just by being told it's model number.
Sure, he might have been in it for himself, but he sure did seem to care about Wayne Enterprises, the Wayne legacy and Bruce Wayne himself.
Yes, I agree that he was interested in what was best for the company's profits, and as a businessman I can't fault him for that. But it is a stretch to say he was looking out for the Wayne legacy and Bruce himself, even if you just go by what made the final cut in the film. He doesn't care about the Wayne legacy, in the board meeting he outright dismisses "what Thomas Wayne would have done" because it's been 20 years. He, not Alfred, is the one who had Wayne declared dead so he could liquidate his stake in the company. And when Wayne comes back to Gotham he "handsomely rewards" him for those shares, which is the
minimum that would be fair for Bruce. As a businessman that's ok, but it's not looking out for Bruce. Why doesn't he immediately turn the company over to its rightful heir once he realizes he is still alive?
Did he deserve to be fired? Sure.
Had to dig a bit, but there it is! Despite quibbling over the details--and agreeing on some--,
we're also in agreement on the main question. 
So,how about those Batman Returns figures?
Do you think Shrek is worthy of an MMS? He's definitely a much more directly involved character for much of BR than Earle was for BB, or even Grissom was in '89.
