Hot Toys- Batman Begins:Batman Demon & Scarecrow spec and pics

[karamazov80]

If nothing else, the pupils are too big. If that's not a painted re-cast, then it is a stock head that has been repainted.

I think the delay is in him producing specific heads for specific customers, but that this head in his auction is a recast that has been repainted.

As for "moral" issues, I'm sure that folks can think of justifications to say the same about any given Sideshow piece ("it's too rare/expensive so they did it to themselves by not releasing more," etc.), or really, anything they want to ("there's nothing wrong with re-casting 6 inch Hasbro figures. They shouldn't make us drive all the way to the Wal-Mart to get those").

Rarity of an item doesn't excuse this behavior in my opinion.

 

[Maglor]

I'm gonna get one. If he's done decent recasts in the past I don't see any reason to be that worried about the quality. I mean, this is't a face really, it's just a burlap sac with eyes. Provided he can kind of paint (which apparently he can) I can't see it being that bad. I'll just get a piece of string and glue it where the noose is meant to be.


Like I said before, this is almost half the price, and I'm sure it will look a lot more than half as good.

 

[obi_dave_kenobi]

I'm gonna get one. If he's done decent recasts in the past I don't see any reason to be that worried about the quality. I mean, this is't a face really, it's just a burlap sac with eyes. Provided he can kind of paint (which apparently he can) I can't see it being that bad. I'll just get a piece of string and glue it where the noose is meant to be.


Like I said before, this is almost half the price, and I'm sure it will look a lot more than half as good.

If I can't find him for a affordable price I may just go this route as well. bums me out but I try to remember i'm mainly a Marvel guy anyway. DC for me is mainly Sups, Bats, and maybe a little Wonder Woman interest.

 

[Maglor]

If nothing else, the pupils are too big. If that's not a painted re-cast, then it is a stock head that has been repainted.

I think the delay is in him producing specific heads for specific customers, but that this head in his auction is a recast that has been repainted.

I agree. It's not just lighting.

As for "moral" issues, I'm sure that folks can think of justifications to say the same about any given Sideshow piece ("it's too rare/expensive so they did it to themselves by not releasing more," etc.), or really, anything they want to ("there's nothing wrong with re-casting 6 inch Hasbro figures. They shouldn't make us drive all the way to the Wal-Mart to get those").

Rarity of an item doesn't excuse this behavior in my opinion.

I've never bought a recast before, and it is gonna feel a little funny. But since I paid full price for this figure/headsculpt already that's my 'justification.'

CD's and DVD's are copywrited intellectual property, but if I own the disc and want to pay for a blank disc to make a back-up copy, I don't stay up wringing my hands with guilt. This is not exactly the same thing of course, but I don't have the ability to make a copy of the head I purchased, nor the skill to paint it, so I am paying someone else to do that work for me.

 

[karamazov80]

I've never bought a recast before, and it is gonna feel a little funny. But since I paid full price for this figure/headsculpt already that's my 'justification.'

CD's and DVD's are copywrited intellectual property, but if I own the disc and want to pay for a blank disc to make a back-up copy, I don't stay up wringing my hands with guilt. This is not exactly the same thing of course, but I don't have the ability to make a copy of the head I purchased, nor the skill to paint it, so I am paying someone else to do that work for me.

Apparently you are able to download video games from the internet using similar logic--if you own the original NES or arcade game or whatever, then it's legal. If you don't, then it isn't.

 

[Maglor]

Did you just give me the go-ahead?!

 

[Wake]

Alright sent off that stinking Michael Jackson Beat It figure... hoping to get my Demon/Scarecrow combo now. :crossingfingers:

 

[haytil]

Rarity of an item doesn't excuse this behavior in my opinion.

It's not just rarity - Hot Toys specifically did not want non-Asian customers to get this set. That was their intent.

They're not being cheated out of any business, because it's business they made explicitly clear that they were not interested in in the first place.

DC for me is mainly Sups, Bats, and maybe a little Wonder Woman interest.

That's not enough to qualify you as a DC guy as well?

Like I said before, this is almost half the price, and I'm sure it will look a lot more than half as good.

That's a very healthy way of thinking about it. I think it's funny you put it that way though, because that kind of attitude is exactly why most of us don't spend hundreds of dollars on custom heads - but if you display that kind of attitude about custom heads and stock heads, for some reason, you get a lot of anger and confusion from people here.

 

[karamazov80]

Did you just give me the go-ahead?!

Hey, you fellas do as you will. karamazov80 has made no warranties, express or implied, or representations as to the accuracy of content in his posts. karamazov80 assumes no liability or responsibility for any errors or omissions in the information contained in his posts or the operation thereof. By using his posts, you assume all risks associated with this use. karamazov80 expressly disclaims any liability for any special, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues, or lost profits, resulting from the use or misuse of the information contained in his posts.

 

[obi_dave_kenobi]

That's not enough to qualify you as a DC guy as well?

Well its is the Holy trinity of DC so it may.

 

[haytil]

Apparently you are able to download video games from the internet using similar logic--if you own the original NES or arcade game or whatever, then it's legal. If you don't, then it isn't.

No, the logic is different.

With a video game, you're buying the IP and the code for your own use. The product you bought and own isn't actually a physical product. The cartridge, CD, etc. is just a way of carrying all that, and is irrelevant.

So you're allowed to have as many copies of that video game IP and code as you want, for backup purposes - but that means you're not supposed to use more than one simultaneously (so you can't give it to your friends, for example).

Physical items (as opposed to IP and code), like the Scarecrow head, are different. You're not buying the "idea" or "concept" of the Scarecrow head, you're buying the actual physical product. So you're only entitled to the one you buy, and not an infinite number of free copies.

Otherwise, by that logic, I would've been justified in getting a free DX02 body, so I could use it with the sonar head at the same time as the PERS - since I already owned one body, right?

 

[karamazov80]

I'm no lawyer, but I don't necessarily see why a product being a tangible, physical object would be distinguished from computer code if you own both. Do you have a link to the legal finding supporting your assumption haytil?

 

[Maglor]

Hey, you fellas do as you will. karamazov80 has made no warranties, express or implied, or representations as to the accuracy of content in his posts. karamazov80 assumes no liability or responsibility for any errors or omissions in the information contained in his posts or the operation thereof. By using his posts, you assume all risks associated with this use. karamazov80 expressly disclaims any liability for any special, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues, or lost profits, resulting from the use or misuse of the information contained in his posts.

 

[haytil]

I'm no lawyer, but I don't necessarily see why a product being a tangible, physical object would be distinguished from computer code if you own both. Do you have a link to the legal finding supporting your assumption haytil?

I can't provide you a link to any specific legal finding because this isn't like a narrow distinction that's been brought up in a case or had a specific ruling - it's a broad distinction, in our legal system, made between Intellectual Property and Physical Property. If you want a specific finding, you have to narrow down your question.

The law basically treats ownership of, and rights regarding, IP different than the way it treats ownership and rights regarding tangible products. Legally speaking, they're completely different parts of the law.

Hence the idea that IP and stuff like code, movies, music, and any kind of "data" can be legally backed up by the owner - because the method of transmission of said data is irrelevant.

When a customer purchases a movie, he's buying the data of the movie (the images and sounds). The disc that the movie is on is not important - it functions just like the case the DVD comes in, or the bag that the clerk puts the DVD case in. It's a way of carrying the data, that's all. The actual product is the data itself.

Which is why it's legally acceptable to back up your DVDs onto other DVDs, hard drives, etc. - because all you're doing is making sure you still have the data you bought in case the original, physical disc is damaged. Just like you're allowed to place your DVD disc into another case when you put it on your bookshelf (instead of the original case it came in) if you like - because the method of storing the data is not what's important, it's the data itself that is considered the product.

So it's legal to have a copy of a movie or video game that you downloaded, if you own the actual physical product - because the end-result of downloading a copy is the same as the end-result of using your own hardware to make your own backup (or paying someone to use their hardware, and your original copy of the game, to make another backup copy for you).

 

[EdwardNashton1]

I am mainly urked that they did this as a 2 figure set. There is plenty of people who want either one by themselves. I really like scarecrow, could care less about Bat Demon. If anything it made it harder for me to get a decent price for him with this limited nonsense. I hate the idea of trying to pick up a head on ebay and it might be a recast. There is some great recasting out there, but I don't want a recast.

Seriously. Making it a two pack just makes Scarecrow harder to obtain and jacks up his price.

 

[Maglor]

No, the logic is different.

With a video game, you're buying the IP and the code for your own use. The product you bought and own isn't actually a physical product. The cartridge, CD, etc. is just a way of carrying all that, and is irrelevant.

So you're allowed to have as many copies of that video game IP and code as you want, for backup purposes - but that means you're not supposed to use more than one simultaneously (so you can't give it to your friends, for example).

Physical items (as opposed to IP and code), like the Scarecrow head, are different. You're not buying the "idea" or "concept" of the Scarecrow head, you're buying the actual physical product. So you're only entitled to the one you buy, and not an infinite number of free copies.

Otherwise, by that logic, I would've been justified in getting a free DX02 body, so I could use it with the sonar head at the same time as the PERS - since I already owned one body, right?

Not the same thing.


To be the same, you would have to be casting all the DX02 body parts from the body you paid for to build a sonar head version. If I had the ability to cast stuff, it wouldn't bother my conscience.

 

[haytil]

Not the same thing.


To be the same, you would have to be casting all the DX02 body parts from the body you paid for to build a sonar head version. If I had the ability to cast stuff, it wouldn't bother my conscience.

I don't think you understand my point. I agree with you - I was just pointing out that karamazov80 was applying the logic incorrectly, which leads to the above absurd scenario.

 

[Maglor]

Okay, I think I got it now.

 

[haytil]

If I had the ability to cast stuff, it wouldn't bother my conscience.

Also, I think there's a bit of a moral difference between casting something you own, for your own personal, hobbyist purposes, vs. casting something you didn't originally make, on a large scale and for profit.

 

[karamazov80]

The data, though, is a physical thing that must be stored. The information transmitted by the data is a physical thing--either soundwaves, or images, or whatever. In that sense, it is no different than a physical widget. This isn't an abstract thought that you're copying with a CD--it is data that translates music that you hear. Things only have an existence when perceived, and perception applies to the information interpreted by a computer or an MP3 player as it does to anything else.

You could be right that there is a legal distinction, but I don't necessarily think there should be, and I haven't seen any hard evidence that there is.