Hot Toys Batman V. Superman Dawn of Justice Speculation Thread

[SilverStar17]

I feel you, I didn't "get" MOS for at long time, and I'm still not liking it too much. But I think, that since Superman is all powerful, they have tried to make him human by giving him doubt. He's uncertain of who he is and what his place in the world is. Should he be a God, a savior and human? In both films (for me, personally, better in BvS) he is searching for his place in this world. He is uncertain. In the fight with Batman, yeah, he should have just kept talking, but he is not yet a God in these movies, he got a bit pissed off with Batman, and I think he wanted to neutralize him, and then they could talk. He never got that far... But I like all the doubt they have given him, cause God-like Superman has been done, and done well (Superman I and II (Donner cut) are the best Superhero films in my opinion)), so they have tried a new direction. His mom and dad didn't want him not to save the school bus, they were trying to protect their kid. "Parents of the year - award"? Maybe not, but I'm a father, I understand what they did. He is different, maybe the government will take him away and cut him up, maybe he will make a mistake and billions will die. Sorry, getting of point. My point is, this Superman knows he is a God, but he is also human. He's not above us, he is among us. And that felt real, like if indeed such a man should land on earth, would we want him to assume the part of God? It is the story of Jesus (not that I'm Christian), he has to learn humanity. I hope the next solo Superman spend more time on this.

I feel you, I didn't "get" MOS for at long time, and I'm still not liking it too much. But I think, that since Superman is all powerful, they have tried to make him human by giving him doubt. He's uncertain of who he is and what his place in the world is. Should he be a God, a savior and human? In both films (for me, personally, better in BvS) he is searching for his place in this world. He is uncertain. In the fight with Batman, yeah, he should have just kept talking, but he is not yet a God in these movies, he got a bit pissed off with Batman, and I think he wanted to neutralize him, and then they could talk. He never got that far... But I like all the doubt they have given him, cause God-like Superman has been done, and done well (Superman I and II (Donner cut) are the best Superhero films in my opinion)), so they have tried a new direction. His mom and dad didn't want him not to save the school bus, they were trying to protect their kid. "Parents of the year - award"? Maybe not, but I'm a father, I understand what they did. He is different, maybe the government will take him away and cut him up, maybe he will make a mistake and billions will die. Sorry, getting of point. My point is, this Superman knows he is a God, but he is also human. He's not above us, he is among us. And that felt real, like if indeed such a man should land on earth, would we want him to assume the part of God? It is the story of Jesus (not that I'm Christian), he has to learn humanity. I hope the next solo Superman spend more time on this.

Good posting, agree with many points.

However, I would disagree with you about this version of Supes seeing himself as a God. To me, the Day of the Dead scene (one of my favorite scenes in the film) and the ensuing sequence on the debate on whether or not there should be a "Superman" indicated this to me. When he rescued the girl from the fire at the Day of the Dead festival and set her down, all of the festival participants were reaching out to touch him.

As if they either saw him as a God himself or that if there is a God, that this is the form it's taking and choosing how to manifest itself. Therefore, they want to touch it and feel whatever power is emanating from this all powerful being.

However, judging by Supes' reaction and facial expression in this scene, I get the impression that he does not want to be seen as a God, nor treated as one and him being seen as one by us (the people) confuses him because in his mind, he is just a guy who is trying to help by doing what he can with what he can/is able to do.

 

[jespernicolaj]

I totally agree, but I do think there he knows that he has god-like powers. And that scares him, the responsibility of that. I think the scene you refer to (one of my favorites in the film) shows this in Cavills expression. He is confused and scared but also liking it. He could rule Earth of he wanted to. But he doesn't. I don't think he sees himself as a god, but he finds out that he could be, if he wanted to. But he doesn't. He wants to be human.

 

[SilverStar17]

I totally agree, but I do think there he knows that he has god-like powers. And that scares him, the responsibility of that. I think the scene you refer to (one of my favorites in the film) shows this in Cavills expression. He is confused and scared but also liking it. He could rule Earth of he wanted to. But he doesn't. I don't think he sees himself as a god, but he finds out that he could be, if he wanted to. But he doesn't. He wants to be human.

No, I concur. He's very much aware of his power and how he could potentially scare people if he makes too sudden of a movement. This to me was evident several times both in MoS and BvS. Before taking off in MoS, he would ask people to stand back. Also, in the scene when all the soldiers lowered their guns and realized Supes wasn't a threat, he walked very slowly as not to scare them; same case in BvS when he was walking across the floor of the US Capitol and instead of just busting through the door leading up to the bench, was very slow and deliberate in his movements in simply opening and closing it to walk through it, just as anyone else would.

 

[jespernicolaj]

 

[jimmybing]

What this means is that Affleck's judgment now supercedes Snyder's on Justice League.

The thing is, Snyder isn't just some hired hand. He's in charge of the DCEU. So the relationship between he and Affleck will probably be more collaborative than your post would suggest.

 

[jespernicolaj]

It's a match made in heaven. Snyder visuals - Affleck content

 

[amusedjester]

@melkor - I'm actually glad you decided to see it in the theater. As a fan of DC and mainly of the Trinity, the movie contains scenes that are just epic; at least for me. Things that we read in the comics that made us widen our eyes and seeing them translated in the film made it a worthwhile film to watch. I hope you enjoy the movie or at least those scenes that I'm referring to.

I think it's fascinating that Snyder shows us the Trinity in different points of their life paths.
Superman - in MoS, is introduced to his superman identity, engaging in his full gamut of physical prowess and capabilities; actually just beginning his journey as superman. In BvS, he experiences and realizes, what it truly means to be a Super man and how the world also perceives him as well. That his actions may not just be as simple as "doing or choosing what is right" It's easy for us, as fans, to think of superman as someone who represents "truth, justice and the american way" A man who inspires hope and whose decision is always impeccably and morally right but we have had all our lives and 80 years of comic history to know that version of Superman. This cinematic world doesn't have that. In it's timeline, it's only have 2 years of experience with a Super man and not even meta-humans. So I really like the progression of the character in the movies and the viewers progression with him.

Batman - is introduced as a fully developed and mature character. There is no question for him of who he is and what he is capable of, in fact we see him as someone who is in the latter stage of life path and with loads of emotional baggage and tragedies. To the point that he goes BEYOND the batman character as we know and accept. I like that Alfred is the anchor that tries to drag him back into that character, beyond the butler role. And in the end with superman's sacrifice, begins to come back.

Wonder woman - we don't really know much. We do know that something happened in the past that made her give up and abandon mankind. With her long life span, I speculate that she was the hero that gave up in the end and hung up her cape. Her life path seemed to have been closed already but with the resurgence of new allies decides to come back and pick up her sword.

That's what I get from the movies. It has its flaws, I can pull it apart if I want to, just like every movie out there. People will like or hate this movie and that's fine once they've seen the movie and that's just fine. People bring their own experience and expectations, we can discuss the move but there's no need to be rude or name-calling.

We are all fans here.

 

[melkorjunior]

The thing is, Snyder isn't just some hired hand. He's in charge of the DCEU. So the relationship between he and Affleck will probably be more collaborative than your post would suggest.

Executive Producers have more power than directors. They're like editors-in-chief versus writers in comic books. Affleck now has veto power over anything Snyder does.

 

[melkorjunior]

@melkor - I'm actually glad you decided to see it in the theater. As a fan of DC and mainly of the Trinity, the movie contains scenes that are just epic; at least for me. Things that we read in the comics that made us widen our eyes and seeing them translated in the film made it a worthwhile film to watch. I hope you enjoy the movie or at least those scenes that I'm referring to.

I think it's fascinating that Snyder shows us the Trinity in different points of their life paths.
Superman - in MoS, is introduced to his superman identity, engaging in his full gamut of physical prowess and capabilities; actually just beginning his journey as superman. In BvS, he experiences and realizes, what it truly means to be a Super man and how the world also perceives him as well. That his actions may not just be as simple as "doing or choosing what is right" It's easy for us, as fans, to think of superman as someone who represents "truth, justice and the american way" A man who inspires hope and whose decision is always impeccably and morally right but we have had all our lives and 80 years of comic history to know that version of Superman. This cinematic world doesn't have that. In it's timeline, it's only have 2 years of experience with a Super man and not even meta-humans. So I really like the progression of the character in the movies and the viewers progression with him.

Batman - is introduced as a fully developed and mature character. There is no question for him of who he is and what he is capable of, in fact we see him as someone who is in the latter stage of life path and with loads of emotional baggage and tragedies. To the point that he goes BEYOND the batman character as we know and accept. I like that Alfred is the anchor that tries to drag him back into that character, beyond the butler role. And in the end with superman's sacrifice, begins to come back.

Wonder woman - we don't really know much. We do know that something happened in the past that made her give up and abandon mankind. With her long life span, I speculate that she was the hero that gave up in the end and hung up her cape. Her life path seemed to have been closed already but with the resurgence of new allies decides to come back and pick up her sword.

That's what I get from the movies. It has its flaws, I can pull it apart if I want to, just like every movie out there. People will like or hate this movie and that's fine once they've seen the movie and that's just fine. People bring their own experience and expectations, we can discuss the move but there's no need to be rude or name-calling.

We are all fans here.

Honestly, for me, this version of Superman and Batman and Wonder Woman are the Justice Lords. An interesting inversion, or perversion, of what the real Justice League stands for.

The real Superman should genuinely like people and want to help them. Cavill's version seems to feel profoundly uncomfortable around people. The real Batman would not brand a criminal, especially knowing that brand is a "Murder Me" sign in prison. This Wonder Woman still has a chance to be great, if Snyder doesn't have too much influence over her movie. But since he was the producer, I have a bad feeling about it.

 

[SunrayTheWingman]

I know a lot of people didn't enjoy the movie as much as they wish they had, but putting that aside, anyone else think a 1/6 Doomsday would be pretty bad***? It would be huge and imposing. I kinda wanna see HT tackle it after watching the Ultimate Edition again, just to see how big it is. Even though it's highly unlikely.

 

[MikeyTheKid]

I enjoyed the film but I don't see them making one. They are probably working on more SS figures and starting WW and JL. But it might be a con exclusive if there is enough buzz for one.