1/6 Hot Toys - MMS - Spider-Man: Far From Home - Spider-Man (Black and red suit)

[GhostAsparagus]

I still can't quite grasp why the entire internet is in a panic when literally the only official statement out is that Feige is, at the current stage of probably-continually-ongoing negotiations, not the EP of future Spidey movies. I can't pretend to know much about licensing, but surely that statement alone doesn't definitively equate to "Spider-Man is out of the MCU," not without even a second piece of information to help explain what it actually means.

Re: the thread topic, I thought this was going to be a pass since it has a lot of similarity to the Homecoming suit, but having seen Far From Home several times now and liked it better than the last few MCU movies, may have to reconsider when it releases next year. It looks real slick.

 

[davejames]

I doubt Sony would have ever let Spidey go. They would just continue cranking out lackluster movies and do the bare minimum in order to keep the rights.

 

[hellgrammite00]

I doubt Sony would have ever let Spidey go. They would just continue cranking out lackluster movies and do the bare minimum in order to keep the rights.

Sony owns Spidey rights forever (well, at least the way current copyright laws are going.) For some studios Marvel only sold temporary rights (they have to keep making movies to keep it). Sony paid to keep the rights entirely.

However, remember Sony sold merchandise rights back to Disney about 10 years ago for Spidey (whoops!). So either way Marvel is going to make money.

That is one reason why you don't see much Venom movie toys. Disney at this point is going to want to decrease the value of Spider-man (or at least his associated roster) to buy cheaper at a later date.

 

[MyenShi]

The standing deal was 95/5 profit share with Sony footing the bill for production costs. Disney retains all merchandising profits, but if I'm not mistaken, Sony Pictures retains profits from distributing the film for home/digital release.

Disney wanted to change that, understandably because Marvel Studios is responsible for the soaring box office returns and critical acclaim of the MCU Spider-Man films, and MCU films with Spider-Man in them.

They offered a 50/50 split of production costs and profit as most likely an opening offer.

Sony countered with... 95/5 instead of negotiating. I personally think Disney would've accepted something like 80/20 or 75/25.

The relative box office success of Venom and high praise for Spider-Verse definitely went to Sony's head.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Disney to want better terms considering the original deal was inked before Infinity War and Endgame.

I do think this is all negotiating tactics. I'm not usually an optimist, but I think they'll reach a new agreement.

 

[gmoney5000]

I do think this is all negotiating tactics. I'm not usually an optimist, but I think they'll reach a new agreement.

It's Sony we're talking about...the same company that gave us an all-female Ghostbusters no one asked for, and considered making an MIB-21 Jump Street cross over, once again, no one asked for...so who knows what they'll do!

 

[hellgrammite00]

The standing deal was 95/5 profit share with Sony footing the bill for production costs. Disney retains all merchandising profits, but if I'm not mistaken, Sony Pictures retains profits from distributing the film for home/digital release.

Disney wanted to change that, understandably because Marvel Studios is responsible for the soaring box office returns and critical acclaim of the MCU Spider-Man films, and MCU films with Spider-Man in them.

They offered a 50/50 split of production costs and profit as most likely an opening offer.

Sony countered with... 95/5 instead of negotiating. I personally think Disney would've accepted something like 80/20 or 75/25.

The relative box office success of Venom and high praise for Spider-Verse definitely went to Sony's head.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Disney to want better terms considering the original deal was inked before Infinity War and Endgame.

I do think this is all negotiating tactics. I'm not usually an optimist, but I think they'll reach a new agreement.

Agree to a degree. But consider this. Let's say the next Spider-man movie is $275 to make/promote. It brings in 1.1 billion box office. After giving cinemas their cut, paying marvel their share, your net profit is maybe $250 million if you are Sony.

Media sales are decreasing big time (Sony's stock hasn't recovered from that fact), though digital downloads are still there to make back some of that money. So lets add another 40 million in net profit digital/dvd format sales.

So they spend 3 to get 6, netting out to 3 in profit. Not bad.

Marvel lets say would get $50 million in ticket sales , since they get 5% first-dollar gross (something to note is they get this regardless if the movie is profitable or not.)

Now...on the retail side Spider-man is #1 solo hero when it comes to merchandise (beating out batman/superman easily last several years.) It has been estimated, per film, that Disney makes a net profit of $400+ million dollars in merchandising revenue per spider-man. Shirts, toys, lunch boxes....ect SELL. Disc sales might be going way down ,but t-shirts never die. I don't think people understand that in these big comic/fantasy movies how much more profit is made from merchandise over box office.

So Marvel walks away per film with $450-500 million net profit per film, Sony net profit equals about $300.

Marvel wants to negotiate, and you can understand why Sony doesn't want to budge. They pay costs to make a film that ends up making Marvel more money then they ultimately get.

 

[gmoney5000]

Agree to a degree. But consider this. Let's say the next Spider-man movie is $275 to make/promote. It brings in 1.1 billion box office. After giving cinemas their cut, paying marvel their share, your net profit is maybe $250 million if you are Sony.

Media sales are decreasing big time (Sony's stock hasn't recovered from that fact), though digital downloads are still there to make back some of that money. So lets add another 40 million in net profit digital/dvd format sales.

So they spend 3 to get 6, netting out to 3 in profit. Not bad.

Marvel lets say would get $50 million in ticket sales , since they get 5% first-dollar gross (something to note is they get this regardless if the movie is profitable or not.)

Now...on the retail side Spider-man is #1 solo hero when it comes to merchandise (beating out batman/superman easily last several years.) It has been estimated, per film, that Disney makes a net profit of $400+ million dollars in merchandising revenue per spider-man. Shirts, toys, lunch boxes....ect SELL. Disc sales might be going way down ,but t-shirts never die. I don't think people understand that in these big comic/fantasy movies how much more profit is made from merchandise over box office.

So Marvel walks away per film with $450-500 million net profit per film, Sony net profit equals about $300.

Marvel wants to negotiate, and you can understand why Sony doesn't want to budge. They pay costs to make a film that ends up making Marvel more money then they ultimately get.

Marvel is gonna budge in the end. They set Spider-Man up, narratively and legacy-wise, to take over the Iron Man/RDJ mantle. He is an integral part to the future of the MCU.

Sony is keen on keeping original deal in place...so it's not like they want it to end, so ultimately the ball is in Marvel/Disney's court...and they def have more to lose than Sony does.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Marvel is gonna budge in the end. They set Spider-Man up, narratively and legacy-wise, to take over the Iron Man/RDJ mantle. He is an integral part to the future of the MCU.

Sony is keen on keeping original deal in place...so it's not like they want it to end, so ultimately the ball is in Marvel/Disney's court...and they def have more to lose than Sony does.

I don't think Spider-man is integral at all to the MCU. His screen time in the Avengers movies is emotional, but screen time not much more than Hawkeye or War Machine. Spider-man is simply an extremely popular comic book character. Where Tony was integral in forming the avengers, Spider-man is more a solo character who pops up here or there. Marvel is rebooting anyways.

But I agree, I do think we will see MCU work it out because of money (toys.) Too much money. Spider-man could be written out of the MCU right now, and people wouldn't blink, but there is money to be made.

 

[The Buffinator]

If the Marvel/Feige produced Spidey flicks truly resulted in higher profits for Sony, I think at the end of the day a compromise well be struck. The head of Sony Pictures still answers to the top dogs at Sony Corp., and I'm betting they don't want to risk losing more of the same in the future plus the goodwill they've earned by letting Spidey play in the MCU.

 

[davejames]

I don't think Spider-man is integral at all to the MCU. His screen time in the Avengers movies is emotional, but screen time not much more than Hawkeye or War Machine. Spider-man is simply an extremely popular comic book character. Where Tony was integral in forming the avengers, Spider-man is more a solo character who pops up here or there. Marvel is rebooting anyways.

But I agree, I do think we will see MCU work it out because of money (toys.) Too much money. Spider-man could be written out of the MCU right now, and people wouldn't blink, but there is money to be made.

Yeah it kinda looks that way. Marvel just announced a huge slate of new movies and TV shows, with no sign whatsoever of Spidey. Or CM or BP for that matter, despite those also being massive blockbusters. So clearly they aren't too worried about having enough major characters to keep the MCU going and raking in boatloads of money.

 

[gmoney5000]

Yeah it kinda looks that way. Marvel just announced a huge slate of new movies and TV shows, with no sign whatsoever of Spidey. Or CM or BP for that matter, despite those also being massive blockbusters. So clearly they aren't too worried about having enough major characters to keep the MCU going and raking in boatloads of money.

Well the herd has definitely thinned out now that their #1 cash cow Iron Man is dead and gone, followed by their next most popular character: Cap...and to a much lesser extent Black Widow, even though she is getting her own film, which will probably be a one and done.

So it only makes sense for the MCU to begin to build up the next slate of unheard of/obscure heroes ala phase 1, before getting back to the more established power players like BP, CM, and Spidey.

Just cause Spidey wasn't announced in the next phase doesn't mean they don't have major plans for him. I suspect Feige has something plotted out for him, but with this Sony wrench thrown into his master plan I guarantee you they are absolutely worried, they're obviously not gonna broadcast it though, but behind closed doors I'm sure Feige is losing what little hair he has left.

 

[Razorwing]

Well the herd has definitely thinned out now that their #1 cash cow Iron Man is dead and gone, followed by their next most popular character: Cap...and to a much lesser extent Black Widow, even though she is getting her own film, which will probably be a one and done.

So it only makes sense for the MCU to begin to build up the next slate of unheard of/obscure heroes ala phase 1, before getting back to the more established power players like BP, CM, and Spidey.

Just cause Spidey wasn't announced in the next phase doesn't mean they don't have major plans for him. I suspect Feige has something plotted out for him, but with this Sony wrench thrown into his master plan I guarantee you they are absolutely worried, they're obviously not gonna broadcast it though, but behind closed doors I'm sure Feige is losing what little hair he has left.

They've got plenty of time, it's not like they are on the clock and deals expire.There's always a good chance they can get a deal done for Phase 5,6,7 etc.

 

[hellgrammite00]

Unfortunately under current deal, Spider-man can't appeal in any other MCU movies (only stand alone.) Sony did not throw a wrench in the plan, Marvel is the one that pulled out of the deal effectively (regardless of what quick release Sony throws out.) I think they work something out, but Marvel was developing years in advance these movies before they thought they could throw Spider-man in (in the MCU, Hawkeye is more important now anyways.)

Captain Marvel was able to pull in box-office wise about the same as Spider-man. Shows the sheer power of the MCU that C-class heroes can make A-Class money. I said it before, but i would love the introduction of the x-men to be Rogue temporary stealing Captain Marvel's powers (maybe Dr. Strange movie alters reality creating mutants?)

I think Phase 4 I think will be a solid slate of movies, but Phase 5 working up towards another huge Avengers 5 (probably Secret Wars, which the Russos said they would return to direct.)

 

[gmoney5000]

Unfortunately under current deal, Spider-man can't appeal in any other MCU movies (only stand alone.) Sony did not throw a wrench in the plan, Marvel is the one that pulled out of the deal effectively (regardless of what quick release Sony throws out.) I think they work something out, but Marvel was developing years in advance these movies before they thought they could throw Spider-man in (in the MCU, Hawkeye is more important now anyways.)

Captain Marvel was able to pull in box-office wise about the same as Spider-man. Shows the sheer power of the MCU that C-class heroes can make A-Class money. I said it before, but i would love the introduction of the x-men to be Rogue temporary stealing Captain Marvel's powers (maybe Dr. Strange movie alters reality creating mutants?)

I think Phase 4 I think will be a solid slate of movies, but Phase 5 working up towards another huge Avengers 5 (probably Secret Wars, which the Russos said they would return to direct.)

Hawkeye more important than Spidey...sorry, you lost me there!

 

[Sidewinder]

Well because Sony sucks, they can't produce a good Spider-man movie. I give it a year until Disney buy Sony or Sony will crawl back to them begging for some cooperation.

Can't produce a good Spider-Man movie? Get real! They had plenty of success before the MCU and Into the Spiderverse is considered the best Spider-Man film overall by many.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[rocbolt]

Yeah it kinda looks that way. Marvel just announced a huge slate of new movies and TV shows, with no sign whatsoever of Spidey. Or CM or BP for that matter, despite those also being massive blockbusters. So clearly they aren't too worried about having enough major characters to keep the MCU going and raking in boatloads of money.

It would have been in Sony's hands to announce the next planned MCU Spider-Man film (3rd of 3 solo films in the existing contract). Black Panther and CM were mentioned already, just not given dates (and Marvel has 3 TBA dates for 2022 already booked). D23 is this weekend, might even hear more then on that front. They had to announce the new stuff first as the established characters would hog the spotlight.

This situation sucks as FFH ended on a cliffhanger that will never be resolved in any meaningful way if they don't work this out, and Sony will almost certainly have to reboot sooner rather than later and end the tenure of one of the best iterations of Spider-Man that there's been. Spider-Man was the entire lynch pin for the Time Heist, Tony Stark died to bring him back. You gotta believe it is deeply important to Marvel to maintain in the MCU and they've invested a lot of story capital into that. Spider-Man is one of the most popular and recognizable superheroes on earth. Does no one remember the reaction to the reveal of Spider-Man in the CW trailer? HC and FFH worked in ways Sony's last 3 tries at solo movies biffed as they had the benefit of the established universe as a backdrop, and gave us unexpectedly great versions of Vulture and Mysterio because of it and didn't have to drag things down with starting over every 2-3 attempts at movies. Pascal and Rothman run a frequently embarrassingly bad business when they are on their own, the one smart decision they've made was tapping into the Lord and Miller vibe for Spiderverse- although most people probably don't realize it was also the lowest grossing Spider-Man film.

At the end of the day, Sony came crawling back for help after ASM2 grossed lowest yet, trending to the point of loosing money to maintain the license. Marvel tapped them into the quality and hype of Feige's MCU machine and delivered them a billion dollar film. In hindsight they probably should have just let them wither and give up the license, but dammit Phase 3 wouldn't have been the same without him and I'm a fan of what Tom Holland has done (not to mention his infectious enthusiasm for being amongst the MCU talent) and he doesn't deserve to be a casualty of Tom Rothman's ego.

 

[MedievaL]

Disney wanted to change the deal and Sony didn't. Not sure why Sony is getting the blame and not the greedy Disney machine.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Too many Disney apologists around.

 

[Futurion]

Can't produce a good Spider-Man movie? Get real! They had plenty of success before the MCU and Into the Spiderverse is considered the best Spider-Man film overall by many.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Plenty of success yet nothing like success of live action movies within MCU.

 

[ironwez20]

Can't produce a good Spider-Man movie? Get real! They had plenty of success before the MCU and Into the Spiderverse is considered the best Spider-Man film overall by many.



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

They haven?t produced a good film since 2 and into the spider verse is a cartoon movie. We are talking live action

 

[ironwez20]

Hawkeye more important than Spidey...sorry, you lost me there!

Lost me there to. Marvel pushed back black panther and captain marvel to get spidey In. He is there most popular character. Like it or not