How do you rank the Terminator?

[Hex]

You only see outrage for the movies on teenage fan forums. Seriously- what do teenagers know?

 

[Rotfish]

You only see outrage for the movies on teenage fan forums. Seriously- what do teenagers know?

I will admit to Salvation being awesome. Perhaps not worthy of the first two, of course, but awesome nevertheless. Even T3 was good, although it was an obvious attempt to make another chase-based film, which is why Salvation was so refreshing to see.

 

[a-dev]

Salvation is cool. Theres a few things I went into on the previous page that I don't think they thought through very well but it took things a bit more seriously again and moved away from the self-conscious 'comedy' of T3. Sorry but T3 simply does not compute!

 

[TheFiend]

T2
t1
ts
and t3 is just vile.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

I guess I am the only one who really likes T3...

 

[thenammagazine]

-How does Skynet know about Kyle Reese?

I would guess John Connor's searched for him before T:S and they intercepted intel? Plus, as of T:S, the first Terminator has already happened so Kyle's story to the police would've been public record, as would Sarah Connor's story during her time in the mental hospital.

-If he's on their 'hitlist' why don't they just kill him as soon as they find him?

To use him as bait for John Connor. Killing him after John's born is irrelevant.

-Why does Skynet enable Marcus Wright to have the ability to choose sides and thus turn against it? It makes no sense.

Makes perfect sense. It's what didn't allow Marcus to know what he was and made him the perfect infiltration unit.

-Wouldn't it have been a better idea to have Marcus actually kill John Connor as soon as he found him? Why does a machine intelligence think it a better idea to lure Connor back to a central hub of Skynets operations where a heck of a lot of things could and did go wrong?

Marcus essentially being a "free agent," Skynet would need to confirm John's termination. This way they get both him and Kyle at the same time.

-John Connor, believing that Marcus is a Terminator sent to kill him, for some reason decides to give Marcus key information about his parentage. Not very sensible.

I chalk that up to personal prejudice. He eats crow later, by realizing Marcus is his only ticket to finding Kyle.

-Why doesn't Marcus react in the least bit surprised when Connor mentions that Kyle Reese, the teenager, is somehow his dad?

Realizing he's actually a cybernetic organism opened his mind to a lot of things?

-Why does that child keep handing people the exact thing they need at exactly the right time?

Star is Jesus. See last reply.

-a heart transplant performed in an unsealed tent in what looks like desert

McG's an idiot who knows little about the proceedures necessary for a heart transplant. I think they expect us to believe that, despite needing to be a perfect match to blood type, and the 100% likelihood of infection in the completely non-sterile environment, the heart is so strong (referenced several times in the flick) that none of that matters.

-They made the T-800 a little too invincible, unless it now has enhancements previous incarnations didn't.

Actually plausible. The alloy was tempered so while it would superheat, it could withstand the molten dump which was already cooling as it was spilled on the endo.

-Why didn't the T-800 stab Connor or punch through his chest to begin with? I know I know, a poor climactic battle that would make, but unfortunately the throwing him around strategy and dramatic pauses makes no sense for a machine. Imagine if the T-1000 had managed to catch young John Connor and instead of stabbing him in the head he pushes him around and kicks him in the stomach a few times. Couldn't they have found some way to have Connor avoid the T-800's clutches until the very last?

No. And honestly, the whole Arnold sequence should've just been cut from the film entirely. It looked horrible and even moreso on BR. They should've just gone with Kickinger and allowed us to believe it was a different version of the 101 series, like little Frankie was in T1.

 

[a-dev]

I would guess John Connor's searched for him before T:S and they intercepted intel? Plus, as of T:S, the first Terminator has already happened so Kyle's story to the police would've been public record, as would Sarah Connor's story during her time in the mental hospital.

Hmm. I accept, its bound to be one or the other of those explanations - whether the writers actually had those possibilities in mind I dunno but OK.

To use him as bait for John Connor. Killing him after John's born is irrelevant.

Yeah but John was already born when they sent a Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor and the young John Connor. Unless Skynet was aware of those attempts and knew they didn't succeed and thus wanted to try a new strategy. Either way the Bale Connor was definitely concerned about the possible outcome of Skynet killing the teenage Kyle Reese - he had a line to that effect - 'Kill Kyle Reese..no John Connor' or something.

Makes perfect sense. It's what didn't allow Marcus to know what he was and made him the perfect infiltration unit.

I just don't see why he couldn't have been 'programmed' to believe he is human up to a point and to have some sort of instant switch to Terminator-mode as soon as he found John Connor. Plus with him believing he is human of course his natural allegiance was very likely going to be...with the humans. So it seems like a dumb move by Skynet either way.

Marcus essentially being a "free agent," Skynet would need to confirm John's termination. This way they get both him and Kyle at the same time.

Yeah OK I'll buy that. Of course their later 'throw him around first' kill strategy makes this moot but for now lets accept.

I chalk that up to personal prejudice. He eats crow later, by realizing Marcus is his only ticket to finding Kyle.

I suppose at this point he already knows that Skynet knows about Kyle Reese but still..its a clear case of the line being written in for dramatic effect and to recap on the backstory for the audience. I just don't think a real person in his position would risk giving away this information.

Realizing he's actually a cybernetic organism opened his mind to a lot of things?

Thats probably the best explanation....but still. Just a tiny little rewrite could have fixed this.

McG's an idiot who knows little about the proceedures necessary for a heart transplant. I think they expect us to believe that, despite needing to be a perfect match to blood type, and the 100% likelihood of infection in the completely non-sterile environment, the heart is so strong (referenced several times in the flick) that none of that matters.

Yeah. So really theres no way around this one.

Actually plausible. The alloy was tempered so while it would superheat, it could withstand the molten dump which was already cooling as it was spilled on the endo.

There was all the direct hit grenade shots and the freezing too. Yeah we can only assume it is a stronger design than any previous T-800s we've seen in the films. They stretched it a bit but whaddaya gonna do.

No. And honestly, the whole Arnold sequence should've just been cut from the film entirely. It looked horrible and even moreso on BR. They should've just gone with Kickinger and allowed us to believe it was a different version of the 101 series, like little Frankie was in T1.

Probably yeah. Just a bit unrealistic that the only model Connor ever meets is an Arnie 101. And its not like you can say he may have met others off screen because in T4 this was the first skinjob T-800.

 

[thenammagazine]

Yeah but John was already born when they sent a Terminator back in time to kill Sarah Connor and the young John Connor. Unless Skynet was aware of those attempts and knew they didn't succeed and thus wanted to try a new strategy. Either way the Bale Connor was definitely concerned about the possible outcome of Skynet killing the teenage Kyle Reese - he had a line to that effect - 'Kill Kyle Reese..no John Connor' or something.

Then the only other thing to assume is that Skynet was fully aware, like John, of every past attempt at this point in time as well as the Connor lineage which is still highly feasible.

I just don't see why he couldn't have been 'programmed' to believe he is human up to a point and to have some sort of instant switch to Terminator-mode as soon as he found John Connor. Plus with him believing he is human of course his natural allegiance was very likely going to be...with the humans. So it seems like a dumb move by Skynet either way.

Yes and no. I'd still argue that it'd have to be more than just programming for the R.I.P to get face-to-face with connor.

Yeah OK I'll buy that. Of course their later 'throw him around first' kill strategy makes this moot but for now lets accept.

In T1, the Terminator beat around Kyle too. The T-1000 also tortured Sarah as well in T2. So despite not making much sense, it's fairly consistent. Maybe it thought it could lure out Kyle and get both at the same time.

I suppose at this point he already knows that Skynet knows about Kyle Reese but still..its a clear case of the line being written in for dramatic effect and to recap on the backstory for the audience. I just don't think a real person in his position would risk giving away this information.

Again, unless, by this point, John's lineage is pretty much common knowledge. Ironside's character's snide remarks about the "prophecy" would also add weight to this.

Thats probably the best explanation....but still. Just a tiny little rewrite could have fixed this.

Yeah, . Given Marcus would have to have no knowledge about this at all, that's the only thing I could think of. Unless he miraculously put two-and-two together when John said, "We've been at war since before I was born."

Yeah. So really theres no way around this one.

NOPE! I literally cringed watching that scene. Patients in war zones are stabilized and flown to Germany and the like, where sterile environments can be established for stuff like this. I know it's "science fiction" but I just couldn't wrap my head around that scene.

There was all the direct hit grenade shots and the freezing too. Yeah we can only assume it is a stronger design than any previous T-800s we've seen in the films. They stretched it a bit but whaddaya gonna do.

40mm/203 shells would have less of an impact than something like the pipe bombs from T1. Plus, the pipe bomb was placed IN the endo, it didn't hit him in an "armored" area. Nor did it have flesh to take the brunt of the damage. So that's still okay in my book.

Probably yeah. Just a bit unrealistic that the only model Connor ever meets is an Arnie 101. And its not like you can say he may have met others off screen because in T4 this was the first skinjob T-800.

Yeah. I really don't even get why they would've tried it. When you can tell it's CG, it's BAD CG. Plus, it looked like they increased the size of the endo to match Kickinger's build, further separating it from the one that was supposed to be Arnold's endo. Overall, bad choice.

Something I always laughed at. In a time when humans are starving, I guess they're just too stupid to realize that a body builder needing to consume thousands of calories a day (more than double what the average human needs) to maintain wouldn't be a terminator?

 

[Reaktwon]

Marcus was the first terminator to have true human emotions, so it was a pretty smart move by Skynet to use him in the way they did.

Whats the moral of the story? Human will always be more intelligent than the machines.

 

[Hex]

What's the point of watching these movies, they are all so inaccurate!

 

[a-dev]

Whats the point of Hollywood scriptwriters putting any real thought into anything they do, sure who cares either way?!

Marcus was the first terminator to have true human emotions, so it was a pretty smart move by Skynet to use him in the way they did.

Whats the moral of the story? Human will always be more intelligent than the machines.

Those true human emotions, by default, made him far more likely to empathise with and ultimately choose the side of the resistance. I don't see how that could be considered a smart move by Skynet.

 

[Reaktwon]

Hindsight is 20/20. Skynet obviously didn't know that Marcus would turn against them. Terminators prior to Marcus lacked any real human emotions, so it's always going to be easy to pick them out. It was a smart move, because Marcus was the closest that Skynet has come to making the perfect Terminator for the job. But, it still shows that Skynet is basically just a dumb machine that doesn't really understand what makes a human a human. It underestimated the power of human emotions. Skynet is incapable of human emotions and therefore it doesn't truly understand what motivates it's enemies.

 

[a-dev]

Hmmm. Thats a good argument, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm watching T4. I think it could 'improve' once again a film that has already been improving for me with repeat viewings.

 

[Reaktwon]

It's a creeper. The more you watch, the more you see. I really enjoy the movie now that I've had some time to mull over everything in it, it's much better than I initially felt it was. I can't fault the characters or the set design, etc. I'm looking forward to the next one.

 

[Hex]

Whats the point of Hollywood scriptwriters putting any real thought into anything they do, sure who cares either way?!

What is this "real thought" that you speak of. Some of my favorites weren't made in Hollywood. ^_^

 

[Reaktwon]

I've lost faith in Hollywood after Predators. I like the characters, but making a homage to the first movie shows a total lack of creativity.

 

[Hex]

I'm still good with it all - make up worlds are so much more fun than the real one. ^_^

 

[Reaktwon]

But you would agree that Predators was totally lacking in the script department right? Terminator Salvation at least had a decent script and a plot that was original.

 

[SAB]

I'm coming in late to this thread


The Terminator is a classic original work that made some ballsy decisions - Arnie coming off Conan and gunning to be the biggest action star decides to play the evil villain!

And its still kind of shocking when you watch it, partly because T2 and T3 are so watered down. When the T-800 drives his car through the police station and then just guns down a whole station worth of police officers, its still kind of a holy ____ moment.

Terminator 2 is the lightweight crowd pleasing popcorn flick for all the people that said, 'yeah but I want Arnie to be a good killer robot!' so they made the merciless killing machine into a fatherly protector who learns wacky one liners.
And they sort of put him in a costume with the all black leather and perfectly styled hair.
Its a great ride to watch though.

Terminator 3 was just a money making machine.
- James Cameron pulled out but told Arnie to take the $60mil cheque he was being offered.
- Linda Hamilton read the script and decided she'd rather remain unemployed.
- Edward Furlong was considered too unreliable and was replaced
- The TX was garbage. They obviously ran out of ideas so they just combined the T-800 and T-1000 and said, 'and she's a hot chick!!'

But at least they made fun of the all leather costume, having Arnie take it off a stripper, complete with wacky sunglasses.

Terminator: Salvation isn't worth commenting on.

 

[Hex]

But you would agree that Predators was totally lacking in the script department right? Terminator Salvation at least had a decent script and a plot that was original.

.

Predators was just a bad copy of Predator. At least Salvation tried to be original! I do like the characters in both, though.