INCEPTION Discussion Thread (***Spoilers!!!***)

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Whilst i have been working today i have been listening to the soundtrack all day, i think its Zimmer's best piece of work yet i really do, also features the legendary Johnny Marr from The Smiths :thud:

I have been listening to the end track that is played out at the end of the film the most and i dont know i want to believe that the song is fully of hope and happiness and that he has finally made it!! whilst at the same time a saddness at how long he has not seen his children and finally hes going to see them. I dont know if the song is even a clue to the fact its reality, i certainly take a great deal of hope and happiness from this song and i know what i believe, i believe he woke up, he wanted to see his children so badly he needed to get Saito back on that plane to make the call, happy ending for me :)

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I saw the film again yesterday and paid closer attention to a few details, but by the end of the film I had forgotten some details from early on in the film. :lol

A lot has been said about Cobb's father (Michael Caine) and his kids wearing the same outfits throughout the film, but I don't know if that's true. It could just be my memory playing tricks on me, but the jacket that Michael Caine wears in his classroom is not the same one he wears at the end when he meets Cobb at the airport.

The kids also wear a different set of clothes at one point in the film, when Cobb and Ariadne delve into Cobb's dreams and see his family at the beach.
 
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Whilst i have been working today i have been listening to the soundtrack all day, i think its Zimmer's best piece of work yet i really do, also features the legendary Johnny Marr from The Smiths :thud:

I have been listening to the end track that is played out at the end of the film the most and i dont know i want to believe that the song is fully of hope and happiness and that he has finally made it!! whilst at the same time a saddness at how long he has not seen his children and finally hes going to see them. I dont know if the song is even a clue to the fact its reality, i certainly take a great deal of hope and happiness from this song and i know what i believe, i believe he woke up, he wanted to see his children so badly he needed to get Saito back on that plane to make the call, happy ending for me :)

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Zimmer is such a gun hey. I don't think it's his best work but it's just as good as what he usually brings.
TDK is one of my 2nd favourites
but both the Thin Red Line and Public Enemies (very similar) are my all time favourites :clap:hi5: The closing movie theatre score in PE was incredible. He's so good at the sad/hopeful/at peace/inspirational stuff isn't he!
 
nice little interview, only one i could find

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Well....this blew my ____ing mind...
It is NOT a dream: The WEDDING RING gives it away.

I have now seen this movie three times. The first time I saw it I thought it was not a dream and he was home. When I saw discussions to the contrary, I saw it again looking for any clues to tell whether he is dreaming the whole time, and questioned the ending thoroughly. It was not until I saw a post about someone saying he is only wearing a wedding ring when he dreams. Multiple people shot it down saying that they saw him wearing it in reality or that he was not wearing it in this dream or that one. My third viewing had me looking for the ring in almost every shot, seeing if his totem ever falls in a dream (Something someone said happened), looking at his children's faces to see if they are the same, etc.

My analysis as follows:

The Wedding Ring:

We start the movie with Cobb in limbo with Saito, he is wearing a ring. Step back to the beginning, he is trying to convince Saito to let him into his mind to help protect it, this takes place in a dream two layers down. He is wearing a wedding ring. Things go south and we wake up in the apartment, where we think an angry mob is really coming down the street. They threaten Saito's life with him thinking it is reality, only for him to discover otherwise. In this entire scene Cobb is wearing a wedding ring. Wake up on the train, NO WEDDING RING. In the hotel suite on the phone with his kids, NO WEDDING RING. On the roof talking to Saito, NO WEDDING RING. France, the architecture university, NO WEDDING RING. The coffee shop in Ariadne's first shared dream, Cobb is wearing his wedding ring, she freaks out. They wake up in the workshop, NO WEDDING RING. They go back under and Ariadne explores the physics of the dreamworld, again Cobb is wearing a wedding ring.

Cobb goes to see Eames, the entire time not wearing a ring. He meets the new chemist, still no ring. The chemist gives him a quick taste of his latest potion, in that scene we get a quick glimpse of his hand with a WEDDING RING. Wakes up, no ring. See the pattern?

So finally, the inception. We are on the plane, we clearly see is not wearing a ring. Level 1, WEDDING RING, Level 2, WEDDING RING, Level 3 WEDDING RING, Limbo he is wearing his WEDDING RING.

After he meets Saito as an old man, the conversation continues past what we saw in the beginning, yet even here he is wearing a WEDDING RING still. Then, when Saito reaches for the gun, we are on an airplane. He is not wearing a wedding ring here.

HERE IS THE KEY. As he is walking through the terminal, no ring, as he is greeted by father in law, no ring, when he gets home and spins his totem, no ring.

In his dreams he is married to Mul still, as she can still exist there. In reality, he knows she is dead and does not wear a wedding ring as he is no longer married. A simple yet easily unnoticed way to test which parts are reality.

Not done there, I investigated another thing, Cobb's totem:

I have seen many posts of people saying his totem falls when he is in others' dreams. This is simply not true. People say it wobbles and falls over in the beginning. I watched and listened closely, Saito spins the top and we hear it spinning as the scene cuts to the young Saito. Then, in the end when we see him old again, he looks down and it is still spinning, he knows he is not in reality and goes for the gun.

When Cobb uses inception on Mul, it continues and never stops. In the hotel after the failed Saito mission, it falls. A funny thing to note is that every scene in which the top spins endlessly he is wearing a WEDDING RING. In the scenes in which it topples, he is not.

Now, the awakening scene. Looks an awful lot like a dream right? Not really. He wakes up on the plane surprised, but everyone is smiling. They woke up from the sedatives, but Cobb and Saito were down in limbo. When they got back, everyone is happy to see he made it, Saito looks just as stunned only backing up the fact that he really snapped back to reality. They are all getting bags, going through customs, etc. Everyone looks at each other with a grin because they know inception worked and that Cobb is finally home. Not very dream-like except that it seems like a dream come true. Had the scene after he and Saito with the gun been him in his home, him on his way to his home, etc, I would think it is a dream. No, he awakens in EXACTLY the place he went to sleep to start inception. You never really know how you get to where you are in a dream do you? Then how does he know he is on a plane and just successfully completed inception on Robert Fischer, the man in front of him?

Finally, the home scene. Looks like a dream? In this case, yes it does. we see the children exactly where they were, doing the same thing, wearing the same clothes. They appear the same age. On my second viewing this was red flag that it was a dream. But on my third viewing I noticed slight differences, such as the kids looking slightly older. The cast list has two sets of kids listed, ones slightly older than the others. They are not voice casts but actual actors in the film. I especially noticed a difference as the camera pans towards the totem, I chose to focus on the back door with the kids. The girl is seen throwing herself on her father, in this scene she looks clearly older than the memory he has of her.

And of course, the totem itself. I watched each spin my third time through. It spun flawlessly for a while, began to wobble slightly, then started a hard wobble then fall. In the final scene it appears to be spinning smoothly for a long time, he probably gave it a lot of power. It starts to slightly wobble, and the screen goes black after it begins a HARD WOBBLE as if it is about to topple, not correct itself.

Conclusion: The movie isn't a dream, Cobb isn't caught in some "limbo that looks a lot like reality." Cobb spends the entire movie trying to get to his kids in reality, why would he settle for shades in a limbo? What proof is there that he is dreaming the whole time? If he is dreaming at the end, where is he dreaming? Limbo? So he goes from talking to Saito to just waking up on a plane, all as a part of a dream in limbo? Really? Think about it.

Nolan would never take the "eeet was aaaaalll a dreeeeaaaammmmm" cliche way out. But the fact that he cut the film before the top falls over does have a meaning. He is planting a seed of doubt in your mind. He uses inception on the audience to have them question the ending. The concept of the movie thus becomes reality to the viewer, a heavy thing to think about and something that hasn't been done before.

But all the evidence points to reality.

Well, it didn't blow my mind, but it was freakin' awesome! It supports what many of us have been trying to say. I'll be printing this off to share with my friends after we see the movie on Sunday.

The funny thing is that those that really want to believe in the 'dream ending' or 'it's all a dream' will believe it despite all the evidence to the contrary.


I've been trying to say this:
What proof is there that he is dreaming the whole time? If he is dreaming at the end, where is he dreaming? Limbo? So he goes from talking to Saito to just waking up on a plane, all as a part of a dream in limbo? Really? Think about it.

:exactly::exactly::exactly:




A few other thoughts:

1) The ending doesn't look like Limbo at all.

2) And it doesn't make sense to say that he was 'Incepted' because an Inception is when somebody puts an idea in your head through a dream, and then you wake up believing the idea is yours. Key words being WAKE UP. That defeats the whole dream ending argument.

3) That only leaves the option that an architect built this dream world for Cobb. Maybe Ellen Page's character, but I see no internal evidence for that.
 
I never noticed the ring either,but now we know the end is reality then.I never cared about it being a dream or reality though.

One thing though,that i might have missed...What was the explaination to Cobb's memories interfering with other People's dreams?Like Cobb's wife and kids were in other people's dreams that Cobb was a part of.I need to watch this again as im sure it was explained :gah:

You're in a Spoilers thread mate, you don't need to use Spoiler tags.

Mal and the Kids kept appearing because it's a shared dream state, and Cobb had slightly lost control of keeping the memories from his subconscious from entering the dream.
 
lol^

here's my take, no matter what, what is real right here and now, in my here and now, is what is real and true, no matter what is perceived. I think that no matter what, this is solipsism i guess...that all that i see, whether it be you, or a bus, or a movie, it is all in me, what i am, i do not know really cause, where my body is and all that i see outside of it, it is all a projection/model of what my "senses" pick up.

i've had fever dreams where i heard lots of little people doing work on my body like in Gulliver's Travels, or that Michael Jackson video, and i' think that's what is going on in Inception. It is all Cobb, (TO ME), and his mind is trying to right itself of its guilt. It could be that he is in a therapist office and someone is hypnotizing him to resolve his issues, but whoever that is is irrelevant to it being a display of his mind working all this stuff out, again i have dreams where anything goes and it is all like it was always so, but i wake up and am amazed at how detailed and bizzare things are that make total sense as if theres years of history to back this up.

all this here right now is a dream too, just like when it was ridiculous to think the world is round, i am god dreaming/imagining this, Inception is a great work of art that depicts this...to me?
 
lol^

here's my take, no matter what, what is real right here and now, in my here and now, is what is real and true, no matter what is perceived. I think that no matter what, this is solipsism i guess...that all that i see, whether it be you, or a bus, or a movie, it is all in me, what i am, i do not know really cause, where my body is and all that i see outside of it, it is all a projection/model of what my "senses" pick up.

i've had fever dreams where i heard lots of little people doing work on my body like in Gulliver's Travels, or that Michael Jackson video, and i' think that's what is going on in Inception. It is all Cobb, (TO ME), and his mind is trying to right itself of its guilt. It could be that he is in a therapist office and someone is hypnotizing him to resolve his issues, but whoever that is is irrelevant to it being a display of his mind working all this stuff out, again i have dreams where anything goes and it is all like it was always so, but i wake up and am amazed at how detailed and bizzare things are that make total sense as if theres years of history to back this up.

all this here right now is a dream too, just like when it was ridiculous to think the world is round, i am god dreaming/imagining this, Inception is a great work of art that depicts this...to me?


^^ That could describe every movie ever made. (And that post was almost unreadable. :dunno)






P.S. Solipsism is retarded unless as subject matter for this song:

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Seeing Inception again tomorrow! :chew
 
guys...in the van scene (at the end of the van scene) ...when the folks wake up after the van crashes into the water, the rich dude climbs out of the water and he is chatting with his dad's right hand man. But that guy was not present in the van scene dream sequence, he was present in the dream below that...

am I missing something?
 
guys...in the van scene (at the end of the van scene) ...when the folks wake up after the van crashes into the water, the rich dude climbs out of the water and he is chatting with his dad's right hand man. But that guy was not present in the van scene dream sequence, he was present in the dream below that...

am I missing something?

He was present--they pulled him out in the van garage as a hostage and he talked to Fischer before they all drove away. They planted the idea that he was in on it and then went down to level two (hotel) where he was no longer a hostage but was instead spotted walking in the hotel lobby.
 
He was present--they pulled him out in the van garage as a hostage and he talked to Fischer before they all drove away. They planted the idea that he was in on it and then went down to level two (hotel) where he was no longer a hostage but was instead spotted walking in the hotel lobby.

I just took a shower and thought of the same thing (that they were both hostages)...man this movie is insane...

Did someone make a timeline or sequence of events...need one lol.
 
Nolan was the one using inception when he cut the film before the top fell. Brilliant way to end it imo. Very dead on as the poster above explained.
 
Did someone make a timeline or sequence of events...need one lol.

The trick is that when you are dealing with flashbacks within flashbacks and dreams within dreams within dreams--each with their own unique speed/rate of time passage--it gets really tricky to get them all clearly synced up, lol.

I'm still amazed that this film actually worked. There are SO many directors who couldn't pull off something this intricate and have it make sense.
 
Yes. If they kill themselves in limbo, they wake up. Only thing about limbo is, you can easily forget it's a dream because you're in there for so long.

guys ...im so confused.

If the thing about limbo is that because of the length of time you spend in there, you forget its a dream and hence do not kill yourself to wake up....then when they are there in the beginning, why not just kill themselves before they "forget"...so more accurately, when they enter limbo, they don't know its a dream, but thats not true if it was a decision Mol made when she locked up the totem (the thing that would prove to them they are dreaming)...and didn't Cobb say that Mol and himself took a long time to "create" all the buildings? Well...they must know they are dreaming if they are creating...


ok I'm rambling.
 
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