Agreed on absolutely all counts especially that absolutely atrocious visual of Shrek-level Gingerbread Man Indy hopping from the top of one train car to another.
Yes Voller's goal was freaking amazing though again the
First Avenger parallels continue as it makes his motives very similar to the Red Skull's, lol.
Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about Red Skull's plan! Your First Avenger observations are spot-on, and I forgot to mention that I LOL'd when you referenced Polar Express when critiquing the 20 minute TRAIN sequence!
I hate to say it but I'm glad that this movie is expected to bomb. It's literally the only way possible for this series to finally be able to end on a semi-high note. I know that people are still split on old Han Solo (or maybe leaning more toward the negative) but at least Deckard and Indy ended respectably.
I hate to say it but I'm glad that this movie is expected to bomb. It's literally the only way possible for this series to finally be able to end on a semi-high note. I know that people are still split on old Han Solo (or maybe leaning more toward the negative) but at least Deckard and Indy ended respectably.
What's that look for. Wasn't the forecast for it underperform? And if it actually overperforms don't you think that that would only encourage Disney to *shudder* make yet another one?
What's that look for. Wasn't the forecast for it underperform? And if it *does* overperform don't you think that that would only encourage Disney to *shudder* make yet another one?
Oh and speaking of The First Avenger I was actually bummed that DOD passed on the opportunity to pay some reference to it after Joe Johnston went out of his way to have Red Skull say "while ze fuhrer searches for trinkets in ze desert..." I mean come on they had Arnim Zola right there with Indy, right there!!
Oh and speaking of The First Avenger I was actually bummed that DOD passed on the opportunity to pay some reference to it after Joe Johnston went out of his way to have Red Skull say "while ze fuhrer searches for trinkets in ze desert..." I mean come on they had Arnim Zola right there with Indy, right there!!
Wow, we're in 100% agreement on this. The de-aging in the first 20 minutes just didn't hold up for me. There were moments where it was amazingly good, but the more they pushed the action (& his seemingly endless interactions with German soldiers going from train car to train car) the more it lost its realism. And there was the long distance shot of his running atop the train where the CGI of him reminded me of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan running/jumping in the Phantom Menace.And while I much preferred "old" Indy as well, that wasn't immediately the case - I really could have done without seeing a shirtless 80 year old Harrison Ford.
I agree on the Mummy parallels as well, maybe with a dash of National Treasure thrown in for good measure. And at times I also got Roger Murtaugh vibes from Indy, which I thought was a good choice on their part. And I too thoroughly enjoyed the third act and had no idea it was coming.
I was also surprised when Voller's true goal was revealed - basically to "Out-Hitler" Hitler by going back and killing him and then eliminating his "mistakes" such that Germany would be victorious. Not quite the loyal Nazi way of changing the past that one would expect lol. So he was every bit as evil as Hitler, but in a cold, detached mathematical way.
That spoiler aspect to me was a pretty gaping hole in the movie's logic though - that if Indy had lost and the bad guy succeeded, potentially millions of lives could have been saved.
That spoiler aspect to me was a pretty gaping hole in the movie's logic though - that if Indy had lost, potentially millions of lives could have been saved.
That spoiler aspect to me was a pretty gaping hole in the movie's logic though - that if Indy had lost and the bad guy succeeded, potentially millions of lives could have been saved.
That's not how I interpreted it. I got the impression that
Voller intended to eliminate Hitler so he could prevent him from making decisions that cost Germany the war. That and probably make sure Germany got the atomic bomb first. So likely many more deaths, mainly on the Allied side.
Implying, obviously of course not - he's the movie's villain after all - but... surely any alternative to the real-world outcome of Hitler and the holocaust he was obsessed with carrying out (likely to the detriment of the military goals that Voller seems more focused on) has to be better, right? I'd take a tightly-wound but mild-mannered rocket scientist over a hypnotic-to-the-masses maniac soldier hell-bent on genocide right from the start.
They obviously toss in that on-the-nose junk concerning Voller and the black waiter guy to set up he's racist, but similar conversations likely occured in that same era involving regular Americans (and ironically it's even a logic that people like Farrakhan wouldn't exactly disapprove of - that no matter what, the guy's more African than American regardless of where he's born), so it's sort of meaningless.
That's not how I interpreted it. I got the impression that
Voller intended to eliminate Hitler so he could prevent him from making decisions that cost Germany the war. That and probably make sure Germany got the atomic bomb first. So likely many more deaths, mainly on the Allied side.
It just to me seems like pretty much anyone other than Hitler would be a major plus, especially a scientist like Voller who 1. would have been carefully psychologically vetted (Nazi membership aside...) by the US government to particpate in Apollo, and 2. doesn't come across as the hypnotic meglomaniac former soldier and master manipulator with an apocalyptic vision Hitler was from the very start. Voller's just a villain, bad guy with a plan.
And you're just speculating about the bomb - that's not in the movie - and the reality is, Hitler didn't slow down the development of the bomb or fumble it due to ineptitude, Germany simply lacked the tech/capablity to do it in time. It was a 1945 technology that Germany would have needed in 1944 or earlier.
So the millions you claim it would have saved isn't really supported by what's in the movie. This to me really comes down to Hilter's obsession with the holocaust, and the imperialist campaigns such as Russia which Hitler totally bungled by personally taking over the running of. These were Hitler's obsessive crazies that diminished Germany's war machine and lost them the war, the things that Voller seems to be indirectly referencing.
Aside from Voller's faux pas, I was impressed with the wartime historical accuracy.
By contrast ROTLA made numerous errors with uniforms; insignia; wrong ammunition pouches for weapons carried; anachronisms with weapons and the formation of the Afrika Korps. Some of them can be written off in that the whole thing takes place in a parallel universe.
I expected something similarly pulpy and slapdash with DoD, but someone did their homework. It's 1944 so the Waffen-SS are correctly wearing ankle boots, and the officers are wearing field grey wartime uniforms.
One thing they went overboard on, and most films do, is having a few too many machine pistols. In practice they were issued to officers, NCOs and armoured vehicle crews. In films they look more exciting and threatening than rifles, so they get doled out liberally.
Aside from Voller's faux pas, I was impressed with the wartime historical accuracy.
By contrast ROTLA made numerous errors with uniforms; insignia; wrong ammunition pouches for weapons carried; anachronisms with weapons and the formation of the Afrika Korps. Some of them can be written off in that the whole thing takes place in a parallel universe.
I expected something similarly pulpy and slapdash with DoD, but someone did their homework. It's 1944 so the Waffen-SS are correctly wearing ankle boots, and the officers are wearing field grey wartime uniforms.
One thing they went overboard on, and most films do, is having a few too many machine pistols. In practice they were issued to officers, NCOs and armoured vehicle crews. In films they look more exciting and threatening than rifles, so they get doled out liverally.
Yeah I really liked the authenticity of that opening sequence. Yes, a few somewhat questionable CGI shots of the train part, but fun and thrilling, very Indy.
I find it really funny that some people had all kinds of issues with the opening but loved the end sequence....
, which was like an action-thriller version of Monty Python's Life of Brian, complete with a Terry Jones playing a classical Greek mathematician and a Nazi strafing 150BC Romans... for some reason... as the plane flies at 50ft... for some reason (within arrow range)... with a 13 year old kid flying another plane (a skill learnt in a nightclub using paper cups)... for some reason.
And while I much preferred "old" Indy as well, that wasn't immediately the case - I really could have done without 
