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I didn't know you were from Seattle, Ultimate Weapon! Howdy neighbor! :wave :D

And I agree with what you said - I love the Pacific NW - especially Seattle. I couldn't imagine living anywhere else.
 
I don't want to take this off topic, but teachers should still get more for what they do. It's pathetic how much doctors make when they spend so little face time with their patients, yet teachers get squat in comparison for what they have to do on a daily basis.

I'm not going to say anything because it might piss a few people off when I don't mean it too.

:monkey1
 
That's definitely true, to get our loan we only had to put down a dollar. Now in our area if you want a new house you must put down 3% to get even the paperwork started, 10% on an older house.
That's the way it used to be and should be now. That's the reason the housing market is in the pits because banks were giving out loans to everyone no matter if they had a down payment or bad credit.
 
i think teachers are way underpaid...i think most people understand the value of a teacher, but as long as teachers are paid with tax dollars, then they will be underpaid...because obviously no one wants to pay a dime more in taxes for any reason except football stadiums.

That said, since I don't have kids, I think I personally overpay for teachers. Because as a chilldless taxpayer I shouldn't be paying teacher salaries at all.

IMO schools should all be privatized and people who have kids and want the kids to be educated should pay for the education. if society did that, i bet the good teachers would be getting paid what they deserve and bad teachers would get canned because private corps wont put up with the silly tenure rules and beauracracy.

If the public school system was dissolved, parents would see the value of education and that not all education is the same. People would work their ass off to get out of the poor system because they will realize the government isn't going to try to paint it as the same system everywhere. And parents will beat down their kids for ruining an education they actually had to pay for instead of just sending their kids to be babysat on taxpayer dime.
 
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"I think I personally overpay for teachers. Because as a chilldless taxpayer I shouldn't be paying teacher salaries at all."

who do you think is going to be running this planet tomorrow? the kids who are getting an education today! i can't think of a better investment.
 
It's all perspective on where you want to live and what it's worth to you as well.

I spent fifteen years of my childhood growing up in Ohio and I now live in Seattle. I don't care how cheap things are in Ohio by comparison, I'm never moving back to that part of the country. Too many things I didn't like about the area and the Pacific Northwest culture falls in line with my ideals much better. So no matter how much less I can get for my money here in regards to housing, it's worth what the area has to offer for me to stay.

On the job front, I graduated with my Masters in Architecture in May '09 - talk about the worst timing ever. I have yet to do any work in the field beyond an internship I had as a student. So I haven't been laid off, but I can't even get into my field and I'm still working the same caliber of lame jobs that prompted me to return to school in the first place.

On the bright side it's prompting me to think of ways that I can be more independent in my career and have control over how I live my life rather than devoting my time to a particular firm/company/agency.

I didn't know you were from Seattle, Ultimate Weapon! Howdy neighbor! :wave :D

And I agree with what you said - I love the Pacific NW - especially Seattle. I couldn't imagine living anywhere else.

Seattle FTW!!! :yess:
 
IMO schools should all be privatized and people who have kids and want the kids to be educated should pay for the education. if society did that, i bet the good teachers would be getting paid what they deserve and bad teachers would get canned because private corps wont put up with the silly tenure rules and beauracracy.

If the public school system was dissolved, parents would see the value of education and that not all education is the same. People would work their ass off to get out of the poor system because they will realize the government isn't going to try to paint it as the same system everywhere. And parents will beat down their kids for ruining an education they actually had to pay for instead of just sending their kids to be babysat on taxpayer dime.

This is best case scenario type of thinking. Its the same line of thought that has been spouted out about things like Welfare, "If they get rid of it then people will have to get a job". The thing is that things aren't black and white but amazingly multiple shades of gray. Do I think teachers are underpaid? Even taking myself out of the equation absolutely because our days don't stop at the last bell. Most teachers can leave at my site at 3:40 a full hour after the kids but many of them stay until 5 or 6 just grading papers and prepping for the next day. I can't tell you how many times I have to work over the weekends, holidays, days off, even over long breaks. I would love to fill out an hourly timesheet instead of working salary because I would at minimum double my salary.

The thing is that things aren't much better at many private schools where students are paying to be there. Our public school scores at even the lowest school is on par with the private schools in the area. Yet nothing has been done there to oust teachers or they don't come around us and try to recruit which is what you see in private sectors. Schools cannot be privatized or turned with the business model because even if they get them past unions and past contractual constructs what you'd find is the more affluent areas who could pay and attract the "better" teachers would snipe all of the teachers in the surrounding areas leaving huge gaps in the educational system. 40 miles south of me, the area of Pleasanton is way more affluent, the median income is twice what it is in my school site's city. The teachers make 70K on average with the same amount of service I have. The difference? Is it the teachers? No. I've met them, I've worked with them and a ton of them aren't worth ____. What happens is they are blessed with the fact that the students' parents are spending time with their kids, teaching them to read, write, doing homework with them and they come to school amazingly prepared. That isn't seen in my area or most lower performing areas. I have kids in my 8th grade class that have a reading level of a 2nd grader. Now I have to span over those six years of gaps to prepare them for tests. My buddy who teaches in Orinda (another area that is so wealthy that lawyers accompany to parent/teacher conferences) has students that read at a 12th grade level in the 8th grade.

As much as I'd love to say its teachers, its not. We can only work with the clay we are given and for the most part we make gains but not the kind that we'd need to in order to level the field. It starts at home. It has to. The kids who are read to, whose parents take interest in their student's educations are the ones who succeed. The others unfortunately have to work for it and have to want it themselves because at home they have nothing. Unfortunately in some areas that isn't the case. Its easy for some to do when they can spend the time but many of my students see me more than they see their own parents. Mom works two or three jobs and you have 13 year olds babysitting two or three younger siblings. That is the status quo in my school where no one is there to help them out...

The system is broken that is true but making it a business won't do anything but exasserbate the issue. What this country needs is parents to step up because when they do we notice, we see it and we can do our jobs. When they don't then we have no choice but to babysit and teach those who want to learn. In a class of 30 you have at least 5 or 6 that you are simply trying to keep quiet so the others can learn and when you meet or call their parents, they just don't care.
 
I think ur job is safe if u work really hard and get under paid....if u do that and still get the boot, its cuz they didn't like you.
 
The mike

I live in alameda ca and I tell you the schools have also got to a point where families are now all thinking of leaving the area

There is no $ anywhere and parents are all so worry about the bills and Now the schools that are under funded
 
This is best case scenario type of thinking. Its the same line of thought that has been spouted out about things like Welfare, "If they get rid of it then people will have to get a job". The thing is that things aren't black and white but amazingly multiple shades of gray. Do I think teachers are underpaid? Even taking myself out of the equation absolutely because our days don't stop at the last bell. Most teachers can leave at my site at 3:40 a full hour after the kids but many of them stay until 5 or 6 just grading papers and prepping for the next day. I can't tell you how many times I have to work over the weekends, holidays, days off, even over long breaks. I would love to fill out an hourly timesheet instead of working salary because I would at minimum double my salary.

The thing is that things aren't much better at many private schools where students are paying to be there. Our public school scores at even the lowest school is on par with the private schools in the area. Yet nothing has been done there to oust teachers or they don't come around us and try to recruit which is what you see in private sectors. Schools cannot be privatized or turned with the business model because even if they get them past unions and past contractual constructs what you'd find is the more affluent areas who could pay and attract the "better" teachers would snipe all of the teachers in the surrounding areas leaving huge gaps in the educational system. 40 miles south of me, the area of Pleasanton is way more affluent, the median income is twice what it is in my school site's city. The teachers make 70K on average with the same amount of service I have. The difference? Is it the teachers? No. I've met them, I've worked with them and a ton of them aren't worth ____. What happens is they are blessed with the fact that the students' parents are spending time with their kids, teaching them to read, write, doing homework with them and they come to school amazingly prepared. That isn't seen in my area or most lower performing areas. I have kids in my 8th grade class that have a reading level of a 2nd grader. Now I have to span over those six years of gaps to prepare them for tests. My buddy who teaches in Orinda (another area that is so wealthy that lawyers accompany to parent/teacher conferences) has students that read at a 12th grade level in the 8th grade.

As much as I'd love to say its teachers, its not. We can only work with the clay we are given and for the most part we make gains but not the kind that we'd need to in order to level the field. It starts at home. It has to. The kids who are read to, whose parents take interest in their student's educations are the ones who succeed. The others unfortunately have to work for it and have to want it themselves because at home they have nothing. Unfortunately in some areas that isn't the case. Its easy for some to do when they can spend the time but many of my students see me more than they see their own parents. Mom works two or three jobs and you have 13 year olds babysitting two or three younger siblings. That is the status quo in my school where no one is there to help them out...

The system is broken that is true but making it a business won't do anything but exasserbate the issue. What this country needs is parents to step up because when they do we notice, we see it and we can do our jobs. When they don't then we have no choice but to babysit and teach those who want to learn. In a class of 30 you have at least 5 or 6 that you are simply trying to keep quiet so the others can learn and when you meet or call their parents, they just don't care.

...so in short..parents need to help teach their mother ____ing kids...

so mother ____ing true.
 
What I'm working on now. :1-1:

I'd prefer to do the nurse anesthetist program but there isn't one around me and my wife makes to much to move anywhere for me to go to school, and since she's my sugar momma right now I can't argue with that.

My wife is about to start the NP program....I guess I'm her sugar daddy for a while but she'll work some. She looked at the anesthetist program but I think decided she wouldn't enjoy doing that as much.
 
This is best case scenario type of thinking. Its the same line of thought that has been spouted out about things like Welfare, "If they get rid of it then people will have to get a job". The thing is that things aren't black and white but amazingly multiple shades of gray. Do I think teachers are underpaid? Even taking myself out of the equation absolutely because our days don't stop at the last bell. Most teachers can leave at my site at 3:40 a full hour after the kids but many of them stay until 5 or 6 just grading papers and prepping for the next day. I can't tell you how many times I have to work over the weekends, holidays, days off, even over long breaks. I would love to fill out an hourly timesheet instead of working salary because I would at minimum double my salary.

The thing is that things aren't much better at many private schools where students are paying to be there. Our public school scores at even the lowest school is on par with the private schools in the area. Yet nothing has been done there to oust teachers or they don't come around us and try to recruit which is what you see in private sectors. Schools cannot be privatized or turned with the business model because even if they get them past unions and past contractual constructs what you'd find is the more affluent areas who could pay and attract the "better" teachers would snipe all of the teachers in the surrounding areas leaving huge gaps in the educational system. 40 miles south of me, the area of Pleasanton is way more affluent, the median income is twice what it is in my school site's city. The teachers make 70K on average with the same amount of service I have. The difference? Is it the teachers? No. I've met them, I've worked with them and a ton of them aren't worth ____. What happens is they are blessed with the fact that the students' parents are spending time with their kids, teaching them to read, write, doing homework with them and they come to school amazingly prepared. That isn't seen in my area or most lower performing areas. I have kids in my 8th grade class that have a reading level of a 2nd grader. Now I have to span over those six years of gaps to prepare them for tests. My buddy who teaches in Orinda (another area that is so wealthy that lawyers accompany to parent/teacher conferences) has students that read at a 12th grade level in the 8th grade.

As much as I'd love to say its teachers, its not. We can only work with the clay we are given and for the most part we make gains but not the kind that we'd need to in order to level the field. It starts at home. It has to. The kids who are read to, whose parents take interest in their student's educations are the ones who succeed. The others unfortunately have to work for it and have to want it themselves because at home they have nothing. Unfortunately in some areas that isn't the case. Its easy for some to do when they can spend the time but many of my students see me more than they see their own parents. Mom works two or three jobs and you have 13 year olds babysitting two or three younger siblings. That is the status quo in my school where no one is there to help them out...

The system is broken that is true but making it a business won't do anything but exasserbate the issue. What this country needs is parents to step up because when they do we notice, we see it and we can do our jobs. When they don't then we have no choice but to babysit and teach those who want to learn. In a class of 30 you have at least 5 or 6 that you are simply trying to keep quiet so the others can learn and when you meet or call their parents, they just don't care.

To many words :monkey4

...so in short..parents need to help teach their mother ____ing kids...

so mother ____ing true.

Not to many words :yess:
 
...so in short..parents need to help teach their mother ____ing kids...

so mother ____ing true.

Pretty much. Instead of pawning them off on their teachers, if they spent at least an hour a day helping with their studies when they're younger they'd be much, much better off later in school.
 
I taught my niece how to do algebra when she was in third grade. It took five minutes for her to get the basic idea, and she loved it. Made me write her pages full of problems, did them all, and brought it in to her teacher the next day.

Then she went back to being bored by multiplication tables for the rest of the year. This year (two years later) I asked what her favorite subject was. She said "Spelling." I told her spelling wasn't a subject. She disagreed and strongly defended her position. I said, "What about math?", and she just shrugged her shoulders. Wouldn't say another word about it.

Not being a professional in the field, I don't know what exactly is wrong with elementary education. I do know that it's right ____ed up, and what I've been able to conclude after watching five years of her education, as well as my own, is that children are not being taught.

I think the first piece of education reform should be eliminating mandatory attendance. Some kids don't belong in school and would do infinitely better for themselves if they didn't have to waste their time there. Those who do want to be there are forced to restrain their own progress to keep the others from being left behind.

The second piece should be the elimination of government sponsorship and curriculum control of all schools. It isn't the responsibility of the working individual to educate other people's children. Sorry. No one has a right to anything that someone else would have to provide them with. If you want your child to have an education, you should be willing to pay for it. And for those who will do what's necessary to educate their children, there should be no obligation for them to do what's necessary to educate other people's children as well. If parents cannot afford to educate their children, they have the option of doing the job themselves, or relying upon charity. I know that if I had to educate my niece, she'd be ready for college at 15. For those who simply don't care, then I'm afraid that's their own problem. If they don't have to work to eat, they'll never understand the value of learning more than whatever the hell happens to float through their heads, and their fate is none of my business. Future generations be damned.

As for curriculum, that horse doesn't place. And anyone who thinks that being told by a government what and how they will learn is an act of self-preservation for the sake of everyone's grand-children's grand-children, I'd like to know how ingrained dependence is healthy for anyone save a parasite or a slaveowner. Jefferson believed public education was necessary to keep a people free. It's too bad he never asked how violating that freedom was going to help teach it. I wonder what he'd think if he knew how his idea fulfilled its potential.

Schools have become holding pens and teachers have become zookeepers trying desperately against the utmost futility to bear the burden of educating entire generations, year after year, decade after decade. How's that going for you? Do you feel like you're making progress? Do feel appreciated? Have you felt like throwing that saddle off your back yet? How many times have you told yourself you were better for keeping it on?

I don't know. It just seems that if teachers were getting paid for what they were worth, and performed for what they deserved to be paid, there would be a lot of people willing to pay them, and a lot more children with fully functional rational faculties running around. But that can only happen in a market. Government controlled industries--historically--fail. If there's one that hasn't, I'd love to hear about it. Somebody prove me wrong so I can believe that there's some way of reforming the non-entity that is 21st century elementary education, without removing it from the government's power.

I'll believe it when I see it.

I know that public schools have done incalculable good for children for two centuries. Myself included. But the problem isn't the good they've done; it's the good they haven't. And they haven't done it because they are not permitted.
 
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I don't want to take this off topic, but teachers should still get more for what they do. It's pathetic how much doctors make when they spend so little face time with their patients, yet teachers get squat in comparison for what they have to do on a daily basis.

I'll pay a doctor 50k to save my life but for sure would not pay a teacher even half that to read me a book.
 
I'll pay a hooker $5 to touch my ween but for sure would not pay a teacher even half that to read me a book.
 
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