LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Darthrazz]

Last night's episodes was great!!!
It's sort of ironic how Charlotte's character was somewhat useless until yesterday!!
Also, what's with all those weird glyphs on the Monster's Lair??...
And ancient civilization created it? they inhabited the island as well?...

How creepy was it when the guy was in the lair and calling calmly for help!

 

[Darth Caedus]

How creepy was it when the guy was in the lair and calling calmly for help!

That guy was missing an arm, no way he would be that calm. I think it was the monster trying to lure them down there to make a nice meal out of them

It reminded me of this guy

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[Batty]

Last night's episodes was great!!!
It's sort of ironic how Charlotte's character was somewhat useless until yesterday!!
Also, what's with all those weird glyphs on the Monster's Lair??...
And ancient civilization created it? they inhabited the island as well?...

The glyphs on the temple looked very similar to the ones that were on the countdown clock in the hatch.

 

[Entropy]

Yea, I wondered about that. Did they actually change? Or was it just the smoke monster impersonating them? From what we know, they are the only ones to follow the smoke monster into it's lair. Maybe they went bonzo with what they found there? Anybody notice that the symbols on the pillars near where the smoke monster's lair is were the same symbols that were on the 108 countdown inside of the hatch.

Also, how did Danielle's boyfriend/husband know that the smoke monster is the guardian for the temple? we have never heard that before, and if you remember, the rest of the "others", as well as the people on the "good" list went to the temple (when sawyer saw the flight attendant from his cage, she said they were going there).

I don't think it was the smoke monster impersonating them. I also don't think they were brainwashed or became evil. There has been ongoing issues with babies and births on the island, Aaron's was meaningful as somewhere along the way, according to Ben and the Others, a healthy birth became impossible. Perhaps the ship's crew learned something in the temple about Danielle's pregnancy, that she should not be allowed to give birth to Alex, for whatever reasons, and they were trying to kill her not because they were evil, crazy or doppelgangers, but thought they were doing what was right in an attempt at preventing a greater catastrophe.

It outright killed one woman in their party, but the other guy it was dragging away alive, as it did Locke, for whatever purpose, so it wanted them in that mouse hole.

But it's interesting that he tries to change the future, when he knows that you can't.

Is he really trying to change the future or simply saying the things he now knows he must say?


I loved Charlotte's warning to Jin that the island is death, implying that it is diseased or dying, a corrupting influence that will take you with it.

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

I don't think it was the smoke monster impersonating them. I also don't think they were brainwashed or became evil. There has been ongoing issues with babies and births on the island, Aaron's was meaningful as somewhere along the way, according to Ben and the Others, a healthy birth became impossible. Perhaps the ship's crew learned something in the temple about Danielle's pregnancy, that she should not be allowed to give birth the Alex, for whatever reasons, and they were trying to kill her not because they were evil, crazy or doppelgangers, but because they were doing what they thought was right and attempting to prevent an even greater catastrophe.



Is he really trying to change the future or simply saying the things he now knows he must say?


I loved Charlotte's warning to Jim that the island is death, implying that it is diseased or dying, a corrupting influence that will take you with it.

Just curious...how would you explain locke then? Its killing everyone but him?

 

[Nuka Cola Kidd]

The glyphs on the temple looked very similar to the ones that were on the countdown clock in the hatch.

ooooo i never thought about that!

 

[Entropy]

[/B]

Just curious...how would you explain locke then? Its killing everyone but him?

Locke is going down with the ship methinks. We'll see him again after his off island death. His fate is inexorably tied to that of the island at this point, probably it always has been. If you look at the overall series as the history and life of this magical island then I think the final act will be the death of the island, the death of magic, and the (second) death of John Locke.

 

[Sick Boy 82]

Me and my boy Mike we discussing that after everyone get back on and the island stops jumping, everyone will get off and to keep the island out of Whidmore's hands, Locke will come back and he will jump the island alone to keep it safe. He will be the sacrifice, just like Jack's dad was talking about.

Or if not Locke doing it, it will be someone! Maybe Desmond, as he is immune to the time wapr/travel stuff that is going on.

 

[Agent0028]

Is he really trying to change the future or simply saying the things he now knows he must say?

 

[Darklord Dave]

Is he really trying to change the future or simply saying the things he now knows he must say?

But we (the audience) know that you can change the future, even if Faraday is unsure about it. He already did it with Desmond who woke up with all new memories.

 

[Entropy]

But we (the audience) know that you can change the future, even if Faraday is unsure about it. He already did it with Desmond who woke up with all new memories.

But has that really changed anything? That bit has yet to play out. Was Desmond meant to find Faraday's mom?

 

[Darklord Dave]

But has that really changed anything? That bit has yet to play out. Was Desmond meant to find Faraday's mom?

My point is - before Faraday confronted Desmond at the hatch Desmond didn't remember meeting him there. But when present-Faraday met past-Desmond, he altered the memories of present-Desmond, thus changing the past (and possibly the future).

 

[Batty]

I take it we'll see Faraday warning Charlotte as a child not to return to the island in a future episode.

 

[FlyAndFight]

...also remember the Expose episode , that never really made any sense? I was thinking what if Miles , during all the time shifts , walks over their graves and senses that they are two people buried alive and they dig them out???

Brilliant hypothesis. I can see this definitely happening.

Me and my boy Mike we discussing that after everyone get back on and the island stops jumping, everyone will get off and to keep the island out of Whidmore's hands, Locke will come back and he will jump the island alone to keep it safe. He will be the sacrifice, just like Jack's dad was talking about.

Or if not Locke doing it, it will be someone! Maybe Desmond, as he is immune to the time wapr/travel stuff that is going on.

I thought of this as well.

My point is - before Faraday confronted Desmond at the hatch Desmond didn't remember meeting him there. But when present-Faraday met past-Desmond, he altered the memories of present-Desmond, thus changing the past (and possibly the future).

Exactly! But my only confusion is why it took 3 years for rescued Desmond to receive those memories, if in fact, they were newly made back when past-Desmond was visited by present-Faraday.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Exactly! But my only confusion is why it took 3 years for rescued Desmond to receive those memories, if in fact, they were newly made back when past-Desmond was visited by present-Faraday.

Because in the timeline Desmond was in, he didn't have the memory until in his future Faraday came back to his past and changed Desmond's future. Simple, see?

So now that Locke has put the wheel back on his center, will the jumping stop? Is this how they become locked in the Dharma '70s? How will the "6" find them then?

 

[Entropy]

But when present-Faraday met past-Desmond, he altered the memories of present-Desmond, thus changing the past (and possibly the future).

How did 08 Desmond remembering meeting Faraday in 01/02 change the past?

But yes, Faraday does state that "the rules don't apply" to Desmond, implying that he's the loophole to change events and pass along info.

But what things are "meant to happen" and what things are not? Desmond turning the key and presumably other future events are fated, but the 6 leaving the island has often been said as "not supposed to happen". Is Faraday's communication with 01/02 Desmond one of the "meant to happen" things?

"Present" gets a little wonky as the pre island move events and people were Dec 31 2004 - I'll refer to this as 05'. So 05 Faraday jumps back 3 or so years to 2001-2002 and tells Hazmat Desmond to find his mom. It is interesting that Desmond does not remember this until off island in the year 2008, '3 or so years' later than the 05 timeline Faraday is from. I can only assume there meant to be a correlation with the 3 years 05 Faraday traveled back and the 3 years it took 05 Desmond to remember the meeting.


Also if Eliose Hawking is presumably Ellie of Hostiles, part of the same contingent as young Charles Widmore, then whatever she knows and tells the Losties in the next episode, one can assume Widmore knows as well.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Because in the timeline Desmond was in, he didn't have the memory until in his future Faraday came back to his past and changed Desmond's future. Simple, see?


So now that Locke has put the wheel back on his center, will the jumping stop? Is this how they become locked in the Dharma '70s? How will the "6" find them then?

Ok, try to follow me here... but Present-Faraday tells Past-Desmond about seeing his mom. That "new" memory was made in Desmond's past, AND Faraday's present. So technically I can understand Desmond all of a sudden getting a new memory at the same time that "present" Faraday creates it, but why did that memory, which took place in Desmond's past / Faraday's present, take ANOTHER 3 years (from the time they were rescued) to hit Desmond's little grey cells??

Does that make any sense?...

Remember that Present-Faraday is not running at the same time frame as Present Desmond. Present-Desmond is "3 years" after the Present-Faraday's personal time-frame. Even though Faraday is jumping all over time, he personally is moving at his (and the others with him) time-frame. They remember what's happened to them in the past jumps, etc.

So when Faraday sees Desmond and creates the NEW memory, it should have hit Desmond's mind at a comparable time (perhaps when he's still with Jack, Kate, etc and being rescued by Penny?) Instead Desmond lives another 3 years before those memories "hit".

 

[FlyAndFight]

...But yes, Faraday does state that "the rules don't apply" to Desmond, implying that he's the loophole to change events and pass along info.

Good point. That would explain the inconsistencies.

Also if Eliose Hawking is presumably Ellie of Hostiles, part of the same contingent as young Charles Widmore, then whatever she knows and tells the Losties in the next episode, one can assume Widmore knows as well.

Yep, but why would Widmore be searching for the island if Eloise/Ellie knows how to find it and he knows that she knows how to find it? Unless she's not telling him and he figures that by sending Desmond, he'll be able to get the info from him?...

 

[Entropy]

How will the "6" find them then?

Yep, but why would Widmore be searching for the island if Eloise/Ellie knows how to find it and he knows that she knows how to find it?

I'm not sure she does know how to find it. Before the turning of the key/donkey wheel, the others seemed to know where the island was anchored. Now, maybe they don't. Maybe Desmond holds the answer and can help them locate the losties in time?

Or maybe "the rules" Ben and Widmore discussed preclude him from strong arming her?

EDIT: one thing I just remembered. Daniel named his rat that he unsticks from time and has run his maze, Eloise.

 

[barryo]

So now that Locke has put the wheel back on his center, will the jumping stop? Is this how they become locked in the Dharma '70s? How will the "6" find them then?

i would think that just because they "fixed" the time wheel that would not necessarily keep them from still using it.