Fubeca
Cage Fighter
YEah Charlie is gonna die!!! About time!
Pretty dang good episode, wigged me out and I liked it. Best show on TV ever!
Pretty dang good episode, wigged me out and I liked it. Best show on TV ever!
LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!
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Giant Chicken
Super Freak
Also, the red shoes under the rubble was yet another Wizard of Oz moment.
tomandshell
Blue Flame of the West/Mod
This was a great episode. Goodbye, Charlie!
Penny's dad is a (CENSORED), that's for sure.
And I am so excited to see the missing flight attendant and kids come back next week! Too bad that Ana Lucia, Libby and Eko won't be around to see them. (But I guess they weren't on the list.)
Tonight's episode caused a disagreement between my wife and I about the nature of the flashbacks we are viewing every week. It was truly weird to have a character fully aware within their own flashback, and then go so far as to discuss that awareness with other characters who were likewise self aware and revealed themselves as such when he didn't reenact things exactly as he was supposed to. I think it was all more significant than we realize at this point--I think the experience of the flashbacks might be connected to the actual plot of the show somehow and are more than just a storytelling device filling us in on the history of the characters. What if these aren't really the memories of the survivors? What if they have been falsified and implanted (or at least altered) somehow? Our past experiences and memories shape who we are and influence our daily decisions. What if those memories and experiences were false? Could our choices and behavior be impacted by such counterfeit memories? Would some crazy group of scientists be interested in implanting false memories and experiences into a group of test subjects and then observing them for signs of behavioral determinism?
Anyway, this attempted discussion was met with a lot of head shaking tonight.
Penny's dad is a (CENSORED), that's for sure.
And I am so excited to see the missing flight attendant and kids come back next week! Too bad that Ana Lucia, Libby and Eko won't be around to see them. (But I guess they weren't on the list.)
Tonight's episode caused a disagreement between my wife and I about the nature of the flashbacks we are viewing every week. It was truly weird to have a character fully aware within their own flashback, and then go so far as to discuss that awareness with other characters who were likewise self aware and revealed themselves as such when he didn't reenact things exactly as he was supposed to. I think it was all more significant than we realize at this point--I think the experience of the flashbacks might be connected to the actual plot of the show somehow and are more than just a storytelling device filling us in on the history of the characters. What if these aren't really the memories of the survivors? What if they have been falsified and implanted (or at least altered) somehow? Our past experiences and memories shape who we are and influence our daily decisions. What if those memories and experiences were false? Could our choices and behavior be impacted by such counterfeit memories? Would some crazy group of scientists be interested in implanting false memories and experiences into a group of test subjects and then observing them for signs of behavioral determinism?
Anyway, this attempted discussion was met with a lot of head shaking tonight.
I see what you're saying Tom, but it's a bit like the series finale of St. Elsewhere. I'm not sure they'll go there as it's a bit of a trick on the audience. I could see it though. Sort of a Total Recal indentity switcheroo.
It was awfully clever how the flashback in turn was of an hallucenation. How much of the flashback was true? I'm guessing none of it. I think it was the island/black cloud monster f'ing with his mind like it did to Mr. Ecko. But who knows. This show is infinately unknowable. It's about the great mystery that can can never be solved. Or that's my take on it.
Was anyone else blown away at how much Desmond looked like an 80's version of Dustin Hoffman in his suit with his hair out of his face on his job interview? Or was it just me?
It was awfully clever how the flashback in turn was of an hallucenation. How much of the flashback was true? I'm guessing none of it. I think it was the island/black cloud monster f'ing with his mind like it did to Mr. Ecko. But who knows. This show is infinately unknowable. It's about the great mystery that can can never be solved. Or that's my take on it.
Was anyone else blown away at how much Desmond looked like an 80's version of Dustin Hoffman in his suit with his hair out of his face on his job interview? Or was it just me?
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Loved last nights episode. By far my favorite of the season. What a mind f*ck!
Nice knowing you Merry, I mean Charlie.
Nice knowing you Merry, I mean Charlie.
Agent0028
Inebriated
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Last nights episode saved the show from the chopping block for me, for awhile I was getting bored watching the episodes and with all the homework I've had to cut all but the best TV shows (or at least my favorites). I thought it was cool that Mohinder's friend from heroes played Desmond's buddy. And is it just me or was he giving Ian Malcom's chaos theory speech to that girl.
Tom, you're deep pallie. Very Orwellian thought (assuming it is your own and not one subliminally implanted in you by the show
). I don't know if I agree with your deduction, but it is an interesting possibility.
Tom, you're deep pallie. Very Orwellian thought (assuming it is your own and not one subliminally implanted in you by the show
). I don't know if I agree with your deduction, but it is an interesting possibility.
LOTRFan
The Grey Pilgrim
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gdb said:
Was it? Or was it a case in which because Desmond attempted to change the course of events he somehow found himself back where he once was?! I have no idea why he would find himself without clothes, but it sure reminded me of a "Neo" moment, or a re-birth of some sort.
The whole episode was rather Matrix-esque, esp with the creepy jewelry store clerk --- like a Ms. Potter Oracle.
Beruthiel
Queen of Cats
Been trying, really trying to get back into this show, but I'm sorry, it's turning into one big bore for me. Just weirdness galore and no answers to anything. If it lasts another season I'll be surprised. The writers are not going to hold what is left of the viewers much longer with shows like these. Give me 24 and Heroes any day over this crap. Not impressed and I'm tired of hearing about how we're gonna get answers and then nothing. It's just not working anymore for me. The weirdness is getting to be way over the top and they're about to lose me as a viewer.
The whole show's premise is about the mystery and questions. Did you forget that B? 
I personally love all the mystery and trying to figure things out. As I said before I like shows like Lost because the information isn't spoon fed to me. It makes me think about what could be.
I personally love all the mystery and trying to figure things out. As I said before I like shows like Lost because the information isn't spoon fed to me. It makes me think about what could be.
UTtoyfan
Super Freak
jlcmsu said:The whole show's premise is about the mystery and questions. Did you forget that B?
I totally agree with you here. That is why Lost is one of my favorite shows. It's so refreshing and different from all those cop/medical/law shows they have polluting the channels(not that all the other shows are bad
). There are some great theories on this board, and I need to share them with my Lost viewing buddies who watch with me every week.
Agent0028
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My only problem with all the mysteries is that I wish there was a denouement or two every once in while. And the thing that really concerns me is I question whether the people behind the show are keeping an idea of how all this is working together and where its going, otherwise they may not know how to resolve it all and decide to do something silly like making the whole thing a dream that Jack wakes up from at the end of the series. Although that was a humorous ending for Newhart, here it would annoy me. I remember a show that was on a few summers ago I think it was called Push, Nevada or something, had lots of mysteries and questions, but at the end of the series I was annoyed with the ending and pissed I wasted the time watching the show.
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Agent, they've already promised they wouldn't cop out with something like that. I think I saw somewhere that they have a couple ideas of how they want to end it, but they have a few other things to explore first.
Darth Caedus
Formerly Congerking
Check this out brothers....
As I see it from what I've heard...
A linear progression of events that goes like this:
1. Desmond doesn't marry Penny. He goes on a race and gets stuck on the island, pushing the button.
2. He is forced to turn the key.
3. He relives the past, perhaps several times, and only this last time something he did saving the man in the bar got him out of the loop of reliving things.
4. Time continues on.
5. Charlie gets hit by lightening and dies.
6. A second button is found, complete with a second failsafe key.
7. Desmond turns the second key, and like in #3, he starts reliving the past- this time, however, it is the past starting right after #3.
8. Desmond saves Charlie from the lightening, having had a flash of memory about it before it happened.
9. Charlie dies soon after anyway due to drowning.
10. Time continues to the point of finding the next button/key, and Desmond turns the key again, reliving from right after step #3 again.
11. Desmond saves Charlie both from the lightening and the drowning. When it comes to the whole "what he's been through" thing, he's actually mad at Charlie for not understanding that each and every time Desmond saves his life is another time he has relived all of reality trying to save him to make time progress forward, like with the guy in the bar, only to have Charlie die anyway, forcing him to live months of his life again and again, trying to hope saving Charlie one more time will save him from the insanity of this loop.
-------
Meanwhile, we saw only some of these events, and saw them in the order of...
#1
#2
#4
#8
#11
#3
In fact, maybe when he was reliving the past the first time (#3), he tried saving the red-shoe guy first. He saved him, but he died in the way Jewelry lady listed next, and time went on. He relived it, and saved red-shoe guy again, only to have him die again. Finally, he realized he was supposed to save someone else, and saved the bar guy, and time went forward. Maybe it's the same thing with Charlie. Maybe Charlie, like red-shoe, is the one who is fated to die no matter what, and someone else, like the bar guy, is the wild card who could turn out ten different ways ten different times. This ties into both their theory and the fate Vs. circumstances thing they brought up.
As I see it from what I've heard...
A linear progression of events that goes like this:
1. Desmond doesn't marry Penny. He goes on a race and gets stuck on the island, pushing the button.
2. He is forced to turn the key.
3. He relives the past, perhaps several times, and only this last time something he did saving the man in the bar got him out of the loop of reliving things.
4. Time continues on.
5. Charlie gets hit by lightening and dies.
6. A second button is found, complete with a second failsafe key.
7. Desmond turns the second key, and like in #3, he starts reliving the past- this time, however, it is the past starting right after #3.
8. Desmond saves Charlie from the lightening, having had a flash of memory about it before it happened.
9. Charlie dies soon after anyway due to drowning.
10. Time continues to the point of finding the next button/key, and Desmond turns the key again, reliving from right after step #3 again.
11. Desmond saves Charlie both from the lightening and the drowning. When it comes to the whole "what he's been through" thing, he's actually mad at Charlie for not understanding that each and every time Desmond saves his life is another time he has relived all of reality trying to save him to make time progress forward, like with the guy in the bar, only to have Charlie die anyway, forcing him to live months of his life again and again, trying to hope saving Charlie one more time will save him from the insanity of this loop.
-------
Meanwhile, we saw only some of these events, and saw them in the order of...
#1
#2
#4
#8
#11
#3
In fact, maybe when he was reliving the past the first time (#3), he tried saving the red-shoe guy first. He saved him, but he died in the way Jewelry lady listed next, and time went on. He relived it, and saved red-shoe guy again, only to have him die again. Finally, he realized he was supposed to save someone else, and saved the bar guy, and time went forward. Maybe it's the same thing with Charlie. Maybe Charlie, like red-shoe, is the one who is fated to die no matter what, and someone else, like the bar guy, is the wild card who could turn out ten different ways ten different times. This ties into both their theory and the fate Vs. circumstances thing they brought up.
Congerking's timeline is why I think Desmond's flashback was a hallucination. Otherwise he'd have to live through the present not once, but at least twice so far. Maybe...
I think it's more likely that the hallucination was his brain and/or the island/black smoke monster helping him process his new power.
I also think it's still in question whether fate does indeed have a way of catching up with you like in Final Destination. Just because Charlie died almost twice now (not counting his hanging in season 1) and because the ring seller told him that it would happen doesn't mean it's necessarily so. Though, maybe it is.
Dunno. Certainly was a Twilight Zone episode last night.
I think it's more likely that the hallucination was his brain and/or the island/black smoke monster helping him process his new power.
I also think it's still in question whether fate does indeed have a way of catching up with you like in Final Destination. Just because Charlie died almost twice now (not counting his hanging in season 1) and because the ring seller told him that it would happen doesn't mean it's necessarily so. Though, maybe it is.
Dunno. Certainly was a Twilight Zone episode last night.
GrueSam
The Queen of Darkness
Last night's episode was simply brilliant! 
Although thinking about it too much makes my head hurt, I am just loving all the twists and turns. Bring it on!
Don't want Charlie to die either, though...
Although thinking about it too much makes my head hurt, I am just loving all the twists and turns. Bring it on!
Don't want Charlie to die either, though...
Giant Chicken
Super Freak
Nessasita said:
I agree. This is my wifes favorite show and she fell asleep last week and this week. Good thing we have TIVO.
Last night Lost had the LOWEST RATINGS EVER!!! Just over 12 million viewers. I know last night was valentines day but I hope ABC plays all episodes in a row and in an earlier time slot next year.
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