LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[YoNoSe]

Yeah that didn't make any sense because it changes events that happened prior to crashing on the island. To me it seems like the only differences should come after the moment that the plane didn't crash. And I was rather disappointed not getting to see Shannon again...

They have hinted that Maggie Grace will return....

 

[Agent0028]

Oh good, I hope so. As do most other males who are fans of the show, I suspect.

 

[316what]

I think the taxi driver was the Puppet Master from Heroes. It sure looked like him.

You are correct sir.

 

[Michael Crawford]

That's true Tom, its possible that other aspects of the timeline changed before the plane crash, however I personally find it unlikely. Especially in the instance of Shannon, I really can't fathom a way that the island sinking would somehow cause her to not go with Boone. But I could be wrong.

I think there's two aspects to consider. First, they are still teasing us with this idea that while the bomb went off, it might not be the event that created the second timeline.

More important though, is that all these people and the island are deeply connected. The flashbacks showed us that they were already all part of each other's lives in different ways, like Jack and Claire being siblings. With all the interconnectivity, it's easy to imagine that changing the lives of those that did go to the island and the future of the very island itself could effect everyone on the show in subtle and not so subtle ways.

I think the differences will be amusing, but the real story will come from the similarities. For example, I think that there's nothing mystic or telling about Jack's dad's body missing. But it does serve a cosmic purpose, because the lost items of Jack and Locke brings them together. The relationship between the two is inexorable, and must happen no matter the timeline, so cosmic forces (call it fate if you like) create new situations to get the same results. I think much of what we see in the new timeline will be the telling of these stories that bring us similar results.

Back to the original point - also don't forget that this IS a separate timeline. Subtle differences will exist just because over the course of 30years, people made different decisions. Shannon might not be there not because the island blew up, but simply because in this timeline she woke up in a bad mood that day and changed her mind. While they are connected and similar, that doesn't imply they are exact.

 

[Darth Waller]

I know they don't call it alternate, but I can't help myself.

It's very likely that the lives of the "alt" characters (sorry, producers!) are going to be dramatically different in some details, while still the same in others.

Tom just loves to use the Alt key.

 

[Darth Caedus]

All I know is that my brain hurts....

 

[Entropy]

also don't forget that this IS a separate timeline.

Not really. Like a tree that forks due to injury and regrows back together is still one tree or a river divided by a boulder flows together around the rock is still one river. There is only 1 timeline. Both sets of events happened and both are true.

And in a few episodes no doubt, Mistress Exposition aka Elloise Hawking will show up and tell us something like this.

I think that Jack's sense of deja vu/disorientation--and particularly the cut on his neck--are important clues that something more than a simple reset is going on.
They obviously have to tie the alt story into the one we've been following for five years--I'm just trying to figure out how that's going to happen. If the purpose of the alt timeline is to show the continuation of Jack's journey in an attempt to save or preserve everything we've seen before, then we would be emotionally invested in it.

yes. But I think where you're getting lost (heheh) is in thinking one set of events must become the "real" set of events, negating the other. It seems Charlie, for example, must be alive or dead, when he can be both. So once the paradox is mended, it's possible for a mingling of the characters from the 2 sets of events such as a 'sideways' Charlie living out his days with Claire, or good Locke killing evil Locke - though that task might fall to Ben, Grima Wormtongue style.

...so cosmic forces (call it fate if you like) create new situations to get the same results.

exactly. Ka.

or in cruder terms, it's like Death trying to set things right in the cheesy Final Destination films.

Jack will have to choose (but it's really no decision at all since he's already done it and must do it again) to sacrifice and help mend the timeline. I'm still guessing he'll end up stranded in the past with Kate presumably, become the Adam & Eve skeletons, and give Jacob the original list of 815s he must meet, starting the whole ball of wax. Jacob knew of the 815ers and set up his end game for these events against MiB thousands of years ago. The end is the beginning is the end.

Who knows which one is real or true--maybe they both are. But if the writers want me to say that a plane crashing and not crashing are the same thing, then they're going to have to give me a few weeks for my brain to catch up.

yes. both happen and are real.

Read The Dark Tower book 3: The Wastelands (or wiki it) for a more detailed explanation. As I guessed, they are cribbing the paradox (in a good way), and presumably the resolution, from The Dark Tower as Lindelof has lifted so much from that series already for Lost.

The Lost "paradox mending" scene, likely both versions of Jack & co working simultaneously in their respective worlds towards the same goal, will have to be something special to live up to The Dark Tower's version which involved a hand carved key, a house coming to life and an invisible sex demon.

 

[Darth Waller]

All I know is that my brain hurts....

You're not the only one.

 

[Darth Caedus]

You're not the only one.

If you really want to hurt your brain, read this article



The Real Rules of Time Travel (I thought that Desmond Photo fit perfectly)

 

[EVILFACE]

Pretty good start of the seaon. The chains comment must mean Richard was a slave on the Black Rock and the Others at the temple are from it as well, or at least the current generation.

I take it the pool is the same place they took Ben as a child when Sayid shot him. Richard said he would forever be changed. Sayid could be a Other now.

 

[tomandshell]

Although Ben was presumably healed when the water was clear, and I got the impression that instant and obvious results were expected because of how quickly they pronounced him dead. Sayid went in when the water was murky, and after they showed us that the guy's cut hand wasn't healed during the test. I think something unique happened to Sayid.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Anyone know of a 'safe' site to watch the new season online?

 

[Darth Waller]

Anyone know of a 'safe' site to watch the new season online?

Maybe ABC.com?

 

[Kuzeh]

Or Hulu...
...

BTW,
check this out...

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Well, I asked because I don't have Sky and can't watch abc.com because I am in the UK, so was after a good streaming site that has no nasty pop ups etc, if anyone knew.

 

[Bannister]

Or Hulu...
...

BTW,
check this out...

 

[Darklord Dave]

As I said a page or two back, there's no reason to assume smokey can't take any form he wants. I'm not sure where this idea came from that he can only take the form of dead people...

I like some of Tom's thoughts, but I disagree that the new timeline is any sort of good place. The reality is that there lives - all of them - are far better on the island than if they hadn't landed. Sure, some of the die, but they're going to meet the same end in the new timeline because nobody gets to cheat death. But they all had greater lives on the island than they had without it, and while Locke might have been the only one to recognize it himself, surely we can see it as outside observers.

This was what I was thinking too - they all became better people because of the adversity on the island and I think the new reality will show that they are less fulfilled because they never crashed.

Yeah that didn't make any sense because it changes events that happened prior to crashing on the island. To me it seems like the only differences should come after the moment that the plane didn't crash. And I was rather disappointed not getting to see Shannon again...

Lots of changes have to take place, such as Desmond being on the plane (what book was he reading?). But if Hurley is no longer cursed and the hatch never existed, thus the numbers never existed, then how did Hurley win the lottery?

 

[Lookin4Precious]

I don't think we'll see our characters worse off in the "alt" because I don't think it is an "alternative reality" at all. I believe that we'll come to see that what we are currently being led to believe is the resetting of events due to the detonation of "Jughead", is actually the result of something we have not yet witnessed on the island.

Imagine the remaining story that is left to tell laid out like a timeline. Put a mark directly in the center, splitting it in two. Now I belive that that mark signifies the end of all "On Island" story telling, and the beginning of what happens to them after that story is concluded. And we are being shown the beginnings of those two timelines congruently. Whatever they are doing on the island now will lead to the island being submerged and will lead to them getting a reset of sorts. But they can't be worse of because this will be the real place our characters end up. My theory anyway...

 

[Lord Vicious]

I don't think we'll see our characters worse off in the "alt" because I don't think it is an "alternative reality" at all. I believe that we'll come to see that what we are currently being led to believe is the resetting of events due to the detonation of "Jughead", is actually the result of something we have not yet witnessed on the island.

Imagine the remaining story that is left to tell laid out like a timeline. Put a mark directly in the center, splitting it in two. Now I belive that that mark signifies the end of all "On Island" story telling, and the beginning of what happens to them after that story is concluded. And we are being shown the beginnings of those two timelines congruently. Whatever they are doing on the island now will lead to the island being submerged and will lead to them getting a reset of sorts. But they can't be worse of because this will be the real place our characters end up. My theory anyway...

That's what I was thinking too! The "alt" timeline is not an alternate timeline, just the result of something we have not seen yet, something they wil do on the island this season. That's when Jack will get that cut on his neck he saw in the plane bathroom etc.

Jughead just sent them back to the present. Whatever happend, happend. They needed to cause the incident in 1977, because that's the way it was supposed to happen. They falsely assumed detonating the nuke would alter the timeline, while that was exactly what they needed to do all along...

 

[Moonloop]

But if Hurley is no longer cursed and the hatch never existed, thus the numbers never existed, then how did Hurley win the lottery?

The Hatch did exist. In the first scene as the camera leaves the plane and goes into the water we see that the Island is under water, the barracks are still there, the 4 toed statue, the shark with the Dharma tattoo on it. This all tells us that the Island was there at this time, but underwater and that is why in that reality the plane did not crash.

Hugo still could have used the numbers, but because events played out differently in this reality....it simply did not have a negative effect on his life.