Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

[intothevoid]

Re: The Man of Steel

I don't necessarily view "V" as a superhero though. A hero, most definitely. But superhero, no.

Well sure, I'm just saying in terms of what's the best aadaption of Moore's work.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: The Man of Steel

Chris Nolan and Goyer came up with the story upon which Goyer first draft was based - fact

And we'll never know how much of the story is the work of which person - fact.

Could be Goyer did 5% or 95% of the story, we'll never know, nor does it matter who came up with the story really, since Shuster & Siegel did the source story and the screenplay is what will be used for the film

Hopefully Snyder can inject something visual, heart pounding and exciting. Something no Superman movie has ever had.

That's what i'm hoping for, a Superman movie where he's pushed to his limits and comes out on top, not because he's allpowerful but because he's heroic.

Judging by what we've seen, Kal el is in for good scrap up

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel

V the movie left so much out though. It at least seems as if Watchmen gave us more of what was initially there. But it's actually been awhile since I saw the movie version of V. I could be misremembering.

 

[King Darkness]

Re: The Man of Steel

Just like Nolans Batman films were 95% dialogue

Sure

Obviously no it wasn't, but Nolan's style, for me, doesn't fit with a Superman movie I want to see. Nolan's style worked for Batman as a deeper character driven trilogy.

I don't want that for Superman. Four movies into the Superman franchise and we still haven't seen anything SUPER! Like I have said since day one in this thread, I am desperate to see a Superman film visually appealing with action worthy of Superman.

Its just my opinion, but I don't like Nolan for Superman.

 

[King Darkness]

Re: The Man of Steel

No more realistic ____ for a Superman movie. I want to see a huge overblown action special effects laden epic!!! I want to see Superman and (insert villian) lay waste to city blocks in a battle so over the top it will make my eyes bleed.

Thats what I want.

NEED ACTION! Epic, unbridled, heart pounding, mind numbing action that will cripple your senses, loosen your bowels and release your bladder.

This

In my opinion, a Nolan Supeman film would not deliver this. I'm not saying it would suck, I'm sure it would be good, I'm saying its not what I think he would give us. All I want is to believe a man can be super.

 

[snoop101]

Re: The Man of Steel

At this point I just hope Cavill can act.

 

[Master Wayne]

Re: The Man of Steel

I enjoyed V For Vendetta more than Watchmen.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: The Man of Steel

I don't necessarily view "V" as a superhero though. A hero, most definitely. But superhero, no.

I feel the same about Batman and Punisher movies, those are Vigilante movies, not Superhero movies

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel

I enjoyed V For Vendetta more than Watchmen.

The issue we were discussing isn't which was the more enjoyable movie, but the better translation of comic to film. At least neither were *shudder* League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

 

[Master Wayne]

Re: The Man of Steel

The issue we were discussing isn't which was the more enjoyable movie, but the better translation of comic to film. At least neither were *shudder* League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

I gotcha, I was just chiming in. I don't think such slavishly faithful translation from page to screen is always of benefit. I love the Hellboy movies for this reason, they differ enough from the comics to feel unique and fresh, but not so much so that they feel too unrelated or unfaithful. V struck that balance for me as well, while I was kind of bored with Watchmen, and might rather read the graphic novel over than watch it again.

Then again, Sin City was nearly shot for shot identical to the source material, and I loved it. So I guess I just talked myself out of my own argument.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel

I actually agree with you, which is part of why I don't think Watchmen was one of the greatest comic movies ever. It's just so much more effective on the page, even though it is one of my favorite comic stories ever. But with Sin City, it could be that Miller was so cinematic with the whole thing to begin with, and frankly (no pun intended) Sin City was no masterpiece of modern comics, which makes comparison of the story conveyed via other media problematic.

 

[Kamandi]

Re: The Man of Steel

I loved the Hellboy movies but they differ a lot from the comics. The movies are edgier Ghostbuster movies.

I've never been much for Sin City, comics or film.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel

The movies are edgier Ghostbuster movies.

Hellboy wishes!

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: The Man of Steel

It's a fine line for filmmakers, some stick very close to the source material and people dislike them, others are very different and people love them.

 

[dino76m]

Re: The Man of Steel

the making of the Ultimate man of steel movie
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqRq7ZpjF0I&wide=1[/ame]

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Man of Steel

And we'll never know how much of the story is the work of which person - fact.

Could be Goyer did 5% or 95% of the story, we'll never know, nor does it matter who came up with the story really, since Shuster & Siegel did the source story and the screenplay is what will be used for the film

Just because you don't know the extent of the input Nolan had doesn't mean you get to wipe him off the credits.

Without story, there is no screenplay. Fact.

V the movie left so much out though. It at least seems as if Watchmen gave us more of what was initially there. But it's actually been awhile since I saw the movie version of V. I could be misremembering.

Well i'm not concerned with how much was left our or how much was true to the page - what i'm concerned with is which makes for a better film viewing experience. V wins easily for me. The changes made worked.

Obviously no it wasn't, but Nolan's style, for me, doesn't fit with a Superman movie I want to see. Nolan's style worked for Batman as a deeper character driven trilogy.

I don't want that for Superman. Four movies into the Superman franchise and we still haven't seen anything SUPER! Like I have said since day one in this thread, I am desperate to see a Superman film visually appealing with action worthy of Superman.

Its just my opinion, but I don't like Nolan for Superman.

I don't get this line of thinking - Nolan took the path he took with Batman because it suited Batman's character. That doesn't mean he's going to apply the same thing to Superman when coming up with the story.

Horses for courses.

The dark, grounded element of the Batman films worked for Batman, and Bruce/Batman himself was a part of that environment.

For Superman I think we'll see the the environment around Superman have a sense of reality and groundedness in terms of how people react to him, and how it plays into his upbringing. I don't think Supes himself will be painted as a dark character. More like he will be the light shining through the darkness.

I feel the same about Batman and Punisher movies, those are Vigilante movies, not Superhero movies

I'm not sure what movies you watched.

Bruce Wayne: You're vigilantes.
Henri Ducard: No, no, no. A vigilante is just a man lost in the scramble for his own gratification. He can be destroyed, or locked up. But if you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, and if they can't stop you, then you become something else entirely.
Bruce Wayne: Which is?
Henri Ducard: A legend, Mr. Wayne.

The vigilantes in the Nolan Batman films wear hockey pads

I actually agree with you, which is part of why I don't think Watchmen was one of the greatest comic movies ever. It's just so much more effective on the page, even though it is one of my favorite comic stories ever. But with Sin City, it could be that Miller was so cinematic with the whole thing to begin with, and frankly (no pun intended) Sin City was no masterpiece of modern comics, which makes comparison of the story conveyed via other media problematic.

It's a fine line for filmmakers, some stick very close to the source material and people dislike them, others are very different and people love them.

yeah

I don't think a general rule can be applied for comic to screen adaptations. Different sources materials call for different treatment.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel

It's a fine line for filmmakers, some stick very close to the source material and people dislike them, others are very different and people love them.

Well there are multiple considerations. One is, "what makes the best film?" Nolan knows how to make great films, and understands this very well. Another is, "how do I best do justice to the source material?" Nolan seems to disregard that, and Snyder seemed (with Watchmen) to maybe go a bit overboard in that department, though I think it is the right approach when tackling Alan Moore, because he's the man and folks shouldn't **** around with his work too much (and much better than having him turn it into Sucker Punch lite).

There are different approaches. The best in my opinion is where a filmmaker takes much of the essence of the comics (which is what many of us know and care about to begin with) but gives us a new story on the screen in a way that works as a film, tweaking aspects of the comics that don't work well toward that end. I personally think X2 and Spider-Man 2 are great examples of this, even though both have their flaws and detractors.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Man of Steel

I don't get this line of thinking - Nolan took the path he took with Batman because it suited Batman's character. That doesn't mean he's going to apply the same thing to Superman when coming up with the story.

I'll call BS on this all day long. Nolan refused to address (i.e. chicken****ted out of) any of the more fantastic elements of Batman. It's not in the least "more suited to Batman." This is why you guys go full blown apologist in saying it's an "interpretation" of Batman and meant to be boxed in it's own universe. If it were a better suited story, there'd be no need whatsoever to be stating such as universally, it would be more accepted by the comic fans than it is.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: The Man of Steel

Different sources materials call for different treatment.

To some extent I agree, but I do think a more comic accurate Batman absolutely could work on the big screen (the Arkham games are a reflection of this). Nolan chose a different approach and it works very well, but for Batman, I certainly don't think it's the only potentially effective approach.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Re: The Man of Steel

Just because you don't know the extent of the input Nolan had doesn't mean you get to wipe him off the credits.

Without story, there is no screenplay. Fact.

i was talking about the writers, Goyer and Johnstad, didn't mention any Nolan

But to adress you're point... Just because you don't know the extent of the input Nolan had doesn't mean he should get equal or more credit than the actual writers.

I don't get this line of thinking - Nolan took the path he took with Batman because it suited Batman's character. That doesn't mean he's going to apply the same thing to Superman when coming up with the story.

I believe Darkness was referring to his directing style, which is nearly always the same. Dark toned drearily realistic and not right for the Superman universe.

I'm not sure what movies you watched.

The ones where there were no Superheroes, duh.

Well there are multiple considerations. One is, "what makes the best film?" Nolan knows how to make great films, and understands this very well. Another is, "how do I best do justice to the source material?" Nolan seems to disregard that, and Snyder seemed (with Watchmen) to maybe go a bit overboard in that department, though I think it is the right approach when tackling Alan Moore, because he's the man and folks shouldn't **** around with his work too much (and much better than having him turn it into Sucker Punch lite).

There are different approaches. The best in my opinion is where a filmmaker takes much of the essence of the comics (which is what many of us know and care about to begin with) but gives us a new story on the screen in a way that works as a film, tweaking aspects of the comics that don't work well toward that end. I personally think X2 and Spider-Man 2 are great examples of this, even though both have their flaws and detractors.

This applies well for XFC too