Man of Steel (SPOILERS)

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As with all things, there will be varying opinions. But I'm pretty confident a healthy contingent here will dig the film.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

I'm actually more excited for this film than any other this summer and that comes from a diehard Marvel/Iron Man fan. Snyder looks to have infused his unique style with Nolan's (Jonathan) storytelling style.

What it makes me wonder more than anything is if this film works and melds the superaspects well how much of a missed opportunity Nolan's universe would have been leaving out the more powered characters of the Rogues gallery completely.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

All of this hating on Nolan and TDKR should bring in the Nolanites soon enough. That'll be interesting to watch...again....

jon-popcorn.gif

You won't hear it from me. I loved Nolan's films, but I've argued them to the point where I feel that I need not restate my feelings. This is Superman's time to shine, anyway; SNYDER's Superman.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

It's Zack's movie. No doubt about that at all.

If there's a Nolan who deserves more than the usual Producer's credit, it's actually his brother: Jonathan. He helped save the mess of a script (by David Goyer) with Zack and his team at literally the 11th hour. Unfortunately, those guys won't get their due on script credit thanks to the WGA.

But I'll tell ya, when I read Goyer's script just before production I was pretty damn concerned. :lol And that was the draft Chris Nolan blessed and had story input on. Thankfully, his brother and others knew it could be vastly improved... and WB backed them. But Goyer will get the credit, which is a sham... but that's how the system works.

I will give credit where credit is due.

Is this script available online somewhere? The Goyer one? I'd like to see how it differs with the final product.
 
I'm pretty sure it's suppressed and if one is ever released it'll be the shooting draft by committee version (though it'll still say "Screenplay by David Goyer"). But... stranger things have happened. I never thought we'd see the Frank Darabont INDY IV script, yet that eventually made it out. So I guess we'll see...
 
Re: The Man of Steel

While there's no doubt that its a Zack Snyder film and he should naturally get the credit, however I still don't think its entirely fair to lob Nolan simply to the role of "use-my-name-for-whatever-you-need" producer, who's biggest imput was starting the production and informing the higher ups of Goyers script. Man of Steel in the end feels very much infuenced by Nolan's overall work in the superhero genre. I am sure Goyer's overall movie idea and his interpretation of Supes, were fuelled by the type of approach to comic book stories he aqquired working with Nolan over the years. And the movie seems to show it.

This thoughtfull approach to superhero origin, the slightly symbolic, yet uplifting and touching tone of the film and a hero struggling with his status, seem much more Nolan's Batman, than lets say Marvel or Snyder's other works. Even the slightly toned down, not exactly full-blown-comic-book visuals. The influences of Nolan are just in the most general, broades terms, but they are there.

What I am saying is, I think that a Superman story told 100% by Zack Snyder wouldn't look anything like this. The tone of the movie appears to be quite different from his previous works. Overally MoS looks like the latest, most upgraded and cutting-edge product of DC's years long education in making superhero films. Looks like Batman Begins only boosted and updated with all that they learned in the superhero genre since 2005.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

While there's no doubt that its a Zack Snyder film and he should naturally get the credit, however I still don't think its entirely fair to lob Nolan simply to the role of "use-my-name-for-whatever-you-need" producer


Irish said it was more his brother Jonah than anyone else as far as the script goes.


"Use-my-name-for-whatever-you-need" seems to be exactly what this is given the advertisements, trailers and teasers. It's no different than Burton's "involvement" with Batman Forever as Co-producer. Warner Bros. just wants that directors name there to sort of show the fans that "hey look, they're involved don't worry, it's endorsed!"





Sounds to me like the key players are Zach Snyder and Jonah Nolan with an updated story based on Goyer's screenplay.






And Batman Begins, story wise, was mostly Goyer's baby surprisingly (atleast as far as story is concerned). Bruce, Rachel, Ra's, Fox, the Narrows, compliments of David Goyer.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

I am not arguing with any of that. Like I said, this is a movie directed by Snyder and credit should go to him if its great. I also have no illusions about the level of Chris Nolan's actuall, active involvement in the production, other than starting it and perhaps just overseeing it in the most vague, general terms. But the film still seems to benefit from the tone of his films, and apart form the action and the CGI, the previews so far looked like they had the overall, most general look and feel of his superhero movies. The type of storytelling he and Goyer started in DC movies.

And in some ways story of MoS, seems more like a Nolan film, rather than Snyder. The movie seems influenced by his work, is all I am saying. I am not saying that this influence is due to him personally, and actively tinkering in the production, it could be indirect, as in the way of inspiration and at least some measure of imitation. Trying to do something original and standing on its own, and yet at the same time similar to his work. So that both Nolans Batmans and the new Supes films, looked like they were part of the same DC Cinema Family, even if supposedly they were two completely separate takes on the DC mythos, with Dark Knight trilogy being independent.

And the example with Burton-Schumacher is missed, since the effects of that joining had almost nothing to do with the tone, the ideas and the the general take of Burton on Batman.
 
I've been involved with the production since 2 weeks before shooting began. Trust me, Christopher Nolan's input and influence since that time has been quite minimal. And I'll reiterate: the draft of the Goyer script he signed off on was pretty damn lame. Design choices and all tech decisions were all Zack and his team, as was the much doctored shooting script (with Jonathan ghost-writing a lot of it).

You'll never hear anyone at WB or elsewhere say that officially of course. And, for obvious reasons: they're using Chris Nolan's name to help sell people on the flick. And that makes perfect sense. Plus, him signing on as Producer is what got it greenlit in the first place. No one can deny that.

He's neither George Lucas on the INDY films (who shepherded the stories and was always on set) or Burton with the 3rd and 4th Batman films (who did absolutely nothing). Rather somewhere in between. He was barely on the set, if at all.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

I am not arguing with any of that. Like I said, this is a movie directed by Snyder and credit should go to him if its great. I also have no illusions about the level of Chris Nolan's actuall, active involvement in the production, other than starting it and perhaps just overseeing it in the most vague, general terms. But the film still seems to benefit from the tone of his films, and apart form the action and the CGI, the previews so far looked like they had the overall, most general look and feel of his superhero movies. The type of storytelling he and Goyer started in DC movies.

And in some ways story of MoS, seems more like a Nolan film, rather than Snyder. The movie seems influenced by his work, is all I am saying. I am not saying that this influence is due to him personally, and actively tinkering in the production, it could be indirect, as in the way of inspiration and at least some measure of imitation. Trying to do something original and standing on its own, and yet at the same time similar to his work. So that both Nolans Batmans and the new Supes films, looked like they were part of the same DC Cinema Family, even if supposedly they were two completely separate takes on the DC mythos, with Dark Knight trilogy being independent.

And the example with Burton-Schumacher is missed, since the effects of that joining had almost nothing to do with the tone, the ideas and the the general take of Burton on Batman.

Personally, this doesn't look visually similar to the Batman flicks, it looks like it's own thing. That's what is refreshing to me.


If there are any similarities, it's to other, non-Batman superhero movies. Krypton looks like it could come from something out of Thor or Lord of the Rings. The cinematography looks as stellar as the cinematography in Watchmen. Even Kansas looks visually similar to how it appeared in Superman Returns with it's golden harvest look, which wasn't bad at all.



The only time I get "Nolan Batman vibes" is with the producer involvement headlines, WB/DC logos (naturally) and the fact that Zimmer is scoring this thing. Everything else looks and feels unique. Not even the three Batman films look consistent, they all look like they were made by three different visionaries.
 
I will say that overall this does look and feel quite different than Zack's other films. But that's also because of him. I think he has a better feel for the subject matter and Supes and just let the material flow through him instead of the other way around.

This movie is straight from the heart. Aside from Star Wars or Batman this was a dream project for him. He never really said that outright, but we could tell. And it seems as if the results speak for themselves.

Oh, and I'll say it right here and now: the action sequences in this movie kick the ones on the TDK trilogy straight in the nads.

There is still some some slo-mo, though. ;)
 
Re: The Man of Steel

The only time I get "Nolan Batman vibes" is with the producer involvement headlines, WB/DC logos (naturally) and the fact that Zimmer is scoring this thing. Everything else looks and feels unique. Not even the three Batman films look consistent, they all look like they were made by three different visionaries.

Visually, maybe -- though the interrogation rooms look pretty much the same.

Thematically, it sounds a lot like Nolan ...

"It's the most realistic movie I've made," he [Snyder] said. "There's no tongue in anyone's cheek. I'm not apologizing for Superman in any way. I'm saying, 'Superman is a thing that must be taken seriously and embraced and understood'."

[...]

Russell Crowe, who plays Superman's biological father Jor-El, has suggested that this is the first film to portray "the psychology of what it must be like to be Superman".

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/n...eel-is-the-most-realistic-movie-ive-made.html

SnakeDoc
 
Re: The Man of Steel

I've been involved with the production since 2 weeks before shooting began. Trust me, Christopher Nolan's input and influence since that time has been quite minimal. And I'll reiterate: the draft of the Goyer script he signed off on was pretty damn lame. Design choices and all tech decisions were all Zack and his team, as was the much doctored shooting script (with Jonathan ghost-writing a lot of it).

You'll never hear anyone at WB or elsewhere say that officially of course. And, for obvious reasons: they're using Chris Nolan's name to help sell people on the flick. And that makes perfect sense. Plus, him signing on as Producer is what got it greenlit in the first place. No one can deny that.

He's neither George Lucas on the INDY films (who shepherded the stories and was always on set) or Burton with the 3rd and 4th Batman films (who did absolutely nothing). Rather somewhere in between. He was barely on the set, if at all.

Like I said in the previous post, I am not arguing with any of this. But the "spirit of Nolan" (sorry, I know this phrase sounds ridiculous and pompous) seems to be lingering, at least to some degree, in the overall feel of the film. The script by Goyer might had sucky elements that had to be doctored, but the overall idea and themes persisted, if I am not mistaken, and the general story of Man of Steel is reminiscent of Goyer-Nolans co-op.

Of course Snyder is signing off on every single aspect of the production, but movie still seems to be following the most general, broad fundaments layed down by Nolan. He might have no direct involvement in the production, but without his work in the superhero genre, I would bet a Superman movie made 100% by Snyder would look totally different and be about different ideas and with a different approach to telling the origin story.

Thats all I was talking about. Indirect influence, legacy or paving the way if You will. Its not much, maybe even without any consequence for some, but I think his work on Batman still lingers in the overall concious of DC Film execs and producers, and will continue to do so for their future movies.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

This movie is straight from the heart. Aside from Star Wars or Batman this was a dream project for him. He never really said that outright, but we could tell. And it seems as if the results speak for themselves.


I sort of got that idea recently with the National Guard featurette. How he was referring to Superman as a piece of Americana (which it is) and comparing him to the guard and how they serve. There definitely seems to be a love there.



My only worry about this one is it being too on the nose with the Christ-like stuff like they did with Superman Returns. I hope that isn't the case. If anything, the character is more like Moses, not Jesus. I just hope I see the true blue SUPERMAN, not a religious icon with his arms out stretched saving everyone from evil. If I want that, I'll read the bible.



I'm hopeful they won't be going that route though. They seem to be going the Übermensch route with an "uber-man" that people/humanity might aspire to be. That's more compelling to me and I hope that's what translates on screen.
 
Re: The Man of Steel

Like I said in the previous post, I am not arguing with any of this. But the "spirit of Nolan" (sorry, I know this phrase sounds ridiculous and pompous) seems to be lingering, at least to some degree, in the overall feel of the film. The script by Goyer might had sucky elements that had to be doctored, but the overall idea and themes persisted, if I am not mistaken, and the general story of Man of Steel is reminiscent of Goyer-Nolans co-op.

Of course Snyder is signing off on every single aspect of the production, but movie still seems to be following the most general, broad fundaments layed down by Nolan. He might have no direct involvement in the production, but without his work in the superhero genre, I would bet a Superman movie made 100% by Snyder would look totally different and be about different ideas and with a different approach to telling the origin story.

Thats all I was talking about. Indirect influence, legacy or paving the way if You will. Its not much, maybe even without any consequence for some, but I think his work on Batman still lingers in the overall concious of DC Film execs and producers, and will continue to do so for their future movies.

Sorry but this is nothing more than you seeing your ex-wife's face on another woman. Nolan isn't playing with his Batman dolls anymore, time to move on.
 
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