Marvel's Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania

[chrisstbh]

Still haven't seen Wakanda Forever, doubt I'll go see this either. The MCU has become something that I just watch if I have nothing better to do, even though only a couple years ago I'd be at IMAX for midnight screenings.

 

[loki2371]

Well, after viewing that trailer looks like I'll be adding this to my growing list of MCU movies I have very little to no interest in watching.... Not even for free on D+.

It can join

Back Widow
Eternals
Wakanda Forever
.... and most definitely The Marvels.
*and nearly every D+ series as I've only watched WandaVision & Falcon. As goes the saying "Fool me once..., fool me twice.."

Never thought I'd have a list like this. What happened to the once mighty MCU I loved....

 

[Victοr]

George, is that you?

I have the perfect solution. They should've just gotten Matt Smith; he doesn't have eyebrows anyway (and he's got experience playing time travellers)!

He’s more Doom than Kang lol

Still haven't seen Wakanda Forever, doubt I'll go see this either. The MCU has become something that I just watch if I have nothing better to do, even though only a couple years ago I'd be at IMAX for midnight screenings.

Wtf man, aren't you excited for the D-List Avengers vs the Saturday Morning Cartoon Villain?! And then the sequel where geriatrics and middle aged wrecks come back to face off against the same guy with a power up?!

I don't understand why they're doing this. 3 Phases, devoted to this one guy. Even disregarding how miscast the role is. Even ignoring how ridiculous it is to cast a single person to play literally every different variant. How the Hell did they decide to give a one-note card carrying villain this much attention? I like Kang in the comics, I've made that known. He's an enjoyable fine fellow with a nice gimmick that allows him to come back and pester the Avengers. But he's a moronic and swallow character. He's a thrill-seeking fine fellow. That's it. That's his story. There's nothing more to say. He's got no grand plan or desire. He's not a human supremacist fighting against aliens. He's not avenging something. He's not fighting for an ideal. He's just an fine fellow thinking he's fighting for glory. That's good enough for a bookend in a single Phase against the Avengers, but as some multiversal threat that borders on godhood? Please. The guy's too dumb to create his own time machine. He's restrained by tech. He has never reached the levels of cosmic forces where magic becomes meaningless. He's a top tier Avengers threat, but he's never been in the league of Eternity, the Living Tribunal and so on.

He was a regular joe living in techno-utopia who got bored, randomly discovered he was related to both Reed and Doom, then was the first person ever to think to search Doom's castle for a time machine, and upon getting that time machine he proceeded to travel across the timestream and conquer stuff. He's a simple and enjoyable villain, but he's swallow. He's a single Phase endboss at best. He's one-note. He's a cliche. We admire real life conquerors because they're restrained by physical limitations making their exploits notable. Kang is a guy with all the hacks bullying cavemen. You mean to tell me he lived in techno-utopia and there weren't any super-men to test himself against? He's off-panel taken out alien empires that are thousands of years more advanced than the ones that can casually obliterate "current" Earth, but Captain America and Thor are his biggest challenge? Am I supposed to believe a random schmuck decided to become a conqueror and he just became one? Not just on Earth, but across time and space? Screw it, I guess he played sandbox for a while, raised XP, became the embodiment of git gud, then used future tech to make himself smarter and whatever else. That is all weightless. Like a guy using passwords and acing a stage. There's no gravity to it. Remember, he still needed the time machine built ~2K years ago to literally be what he is. Doom's time travel in the comics is special because due to his use of magic he's the only one who can rework this one particular timestream without creating branches. Kang can't even create his own means of time travel, let alone pull off such a feat.

I could go on, but you get the gist. Kang is cool, in theory and sporadically on panel, but he's swallow. He's a guy operating on the logic of all hacks activated, he's got no grand plan, he's got a design which makes no sense and a name that's never been explained. Kang? What is "Kang"? For me they could've made it so Khan got mistranslated throughout the centuries and he took on the title. Maybe you could rework the Egypt and such takes into Asian empires and eras if you wanted to make him work a bit better. Cast an Asian actor too and make it work around a specific look. But a green tunic with purple thigh boots, a blue mask and a name that makes no sense, all atop a smug fine fellow who exists to be a smug fine fellow, most certainly do not make a multiversal threat.

He's literally discount Doom. Doom created his time machine and he uses it sporadically to go bang Morgan Le Fay. Kang stole that and made it his whole identity. He's a cheater with no beliefs. He's entertaining, but he's not that interesting. But here we are and they're giving literally everything that is Doom's to him. How the Hell do you do Secret Wars without Reed and Doom? What is the point of this guy we'll see in 50 different roles get another power up? The whole thing is like a fighting game's plot. Doom wanting to become God makes sense because it's rooted in his supernatural side. Kang's a literal thief stuck in the sci-fi orbit. But they're going ahead, stripping Doom of everything just to prop up this second stringer.

I seriously cannot understand what they're doing. MCU timetravel is already the worst kind as it has introduced no stakes, due to the branching timelines. Kang should've been appearing in multiple movies throughout Phase 4 under multiple aliases, and then been the villain of the bookend Avengers 5 film, The Kang Dynasty. That was all that was needed. They should've made Phase 4 larger or made 4 & 5 smaller, but there was never any need to involve Kang in anything else. He's a gloryhound with stolen tech who wants to fight ancient heroes. That's not some Phases long journey, that could've been done in a single movie. But no, let's waste the next 4 or so years shoving this guy down our throats.

The question then becomes what happens next? What is the point of the MCU after you've wasted the Beyonder and the Incursions just to give Kang another variant? Who the Hell will care about Magneto's rants, Apocalypse wanting to take over the world in the name of Ugly John and Three-Anus-Amy? What is the point of Doom and the FF? Oh no, Annihilus will unleash the Annihilation Wave and destroy the entire univ- Wait, we already saved the entire multiverse, who gives a crap? Doom will stand around like a schmuck picking fights with Reed. Wow, I've not seen that 4 times before already!

Now, the only way I can see this working is like this: Remove Kang entirely after TKD. That's his ultimate gamble and he fails. Problem is, he's caused a multiversal collapse and the universes are all colliding together. Cue Battleworld. The Beyonder is just the Beyonder and he's the one who keeps Battleworld stable. Have him played by someone with genuine presence and history. You can't have God be a Z-Lister. You need someone like Hopkins or Bale. A star and a thespian both. Anyway, the characters from each universe make a run for it, yadda, yadda, yadda, they team up, they reach the Beyonder and convince him to put reality back together again. Everything's fine and dandy. Then it's revealed the Beyonder was just one of many of THE Godlike race, and the whole debacle was a minor inconvenience in a single multiverse resting on one plane of existence. The problem is, there's a decay and all of reality is crumbling, returning to the void.

That's your hook for the next stage. It's not just universes colliding, but reality itself is crumbling and even THE God Race can't figure it out. Flesh out the Phoenix, tackle things such as the Life Force and White Phoenix Of The Crown. Do Annihilus and the Negative Zone as a place outside the Multiverse. Use the FF and the Strange movies to properly introduce the Abstracts. And set up Doom as the guy who's going to kill everything and restart it with himself as God. He doesn't want to conquer worlds, or universes, he wants to be the literal God. Rabum-Alal being hyped in the shadows is needed. Doom's not a creature of science only, he's a myth of his own making, and so he needs his own religion. They could even merge it with the Universal Church of Truth. There's ways to go around the nonsense they're doing with Clown Kang, but they need to stick the landing with Secret Wars and not go with what's rumoured.

This is the only way it could work. It's still kinda similar to what they're doing now, but there's nowhere higher to go. The MCU is already on a downwards slope. D-List actors playing Z-List characters without a plan or an engaging villain can't be sustainable for much longer. If they do multiversal collapse now, they need even bigger stakes for later if they want people to stick around. If they reboot, then that's the end, period.

 

[chrisstbh]

I haven’t enjoyed either of the previous Ant-Man movies so I have pretty low hopes for this even if I was still a die-hard MCU fan.

 

[ironwez20]

I only know kang from the emh cartoon. He was formidable there but still. Movie looks ok

 

[The Buffinator]

I could go on, but you get the gist.

This gave me hope but then you went on for 7 more paragraphs.

Clearly you're well versed on Kang's persona in the comics and his adventures therein, but maybe wait and see what they're doing with him in the MCU before passing judgement? The fact that you "seriously cannot understand what they're doing" is perfectly normal - they haven't done it yet.

 

[chrisstbh]

I can't believe they're bringing Terrence Howard back as MODOK!

 

[Victοr]

This gave me hope but then you went on for 7 more paragraphs.

Kidding aside, I know, I know, I do get a tad too fired up at times…

Clearly you're well versed on Kang's persona in the comics and his adventures therein, but maybe wait and see what they're doing with him in the MCU before passing judgement? The fact that you "seriously cannot understand what they're doing" is perfectly normal - they haven't done it yet.

I’ve seen enough. I’ve seen the actor, whom I do not like. I’ve seen the announced slate and I know that he’ll be around for years. I’ve seen the same awful MCU costume. And worst of all they’re just ripping off Doom to prop up Clown Kang. I could forgive a misstep. The spotlight falling on something not to my liking. An interpretation of a character too different from what I’m used to. I grew to like MCU “KuKulKan” despite him being so different from the Namor I knew. I could’ve perhaps done the same with this Kang even if the actor and direction weren’t what I envisioned. We can’t have it all. But stealing stories and status from the actual important and superior character to prop up an inferior one is something I cannot move past. I can’t watch them butcher Doom’s stories, steal his spotlight, and just brush it aside. So Clown Kang, and even the innocent guy playing him, are going to suffer my general internet fury on forums all over. It is simply how it is. My rants will flow throughout the years until Clown Kang is no longer bothering me with his presence. Beware my massive and utterly devoid of meaning blogposts on dolly forums!

 

[The Buffinator]

Kidding aside, I know, I know, I do get a tad too fired up at times…


I’ve seen enough. I’ve seen the actor, whom I do not like. I’ve seen the announced slate and I know that he’ll be around for years. I’ve seen the same awful MCU costume. And worst of all they’re just ripping off Doom to prop up Clown Kang. I could forgive a misstep. The spotlight falling on something not to my liking. An interpretation of a character too different from what I’m used to. I grew to like MCU “KuKulKan” despite him being so different from the Namor I knew. I could’ve perhaps done the same with this Kang even if the actor and direction weren’t what I envisioned. We can’t have it all. But stealing stories and status from the actual important and superior character to prop up an inferior one is something I cannot move past. I can’t watch them butcher Doom’s stories, steal his spotlight, and just brush it aside. So Clown Kang, and even the innocent guy playing him, are going to suffer my general internet fury on forums all over. It is simply how it is. My rants will flow throughout the years until Clown Kang is no longer bothering me with his presence. Beware my massive and utterly devoid of meaning blogposts on dolly forums!

Well, stealing from Doom to make this character better could be a good thing, provided they're keeping the best Doom arcs for him. I mean there are only so many stories they can realistically tell with these characters on screen and if a majority of the best tales are centered on Doom, well then spreading the wealth may not be so terrible. As you alluded to earlier, all of these movies seem to end up with someone threatening the world's / universe's very existence, so the character's motivations/journey will need to be interesting/engaging or they'll all end up like Black Adam.

 

[Victοr]

Well, stealing from Doom to make this character better could be a good thing,

provided they're keeping the best Doom arcs for him. I mean there are only so many stories they can realistically tell with these characters on screen and if a majority of the best tales are centered on Doom, well then spreading the wealth may not be so terrible.

Nobody cares about the 500 times Doom has fought the FF because he was bored out of his skull. The memorable stories are the ones that go big. And Kang's stealing the most famous ones. These are 2-3 hour movies, not ongoings. Every character gets one arc. Stark got three solos and appeared in movies for 11 years and they still didn't do Armour Wars. Doom getting all his big stories stolen from him doesn't mean he has others to fall back on, it means he's reduced to a footnote. Kang could've had his one phase story and been left at that. He was perfectly serviceable as a mid boss. There was literally no need to steal from a superior character to overextend his role.

As you alluded to earlier, all of these movies seem to end up with someone threatening the world's / universe's very existence, so the character's motivations/journey will need to be interesting/engaging or they'll all end up like Black Adam.

Kang's got no motivation beyond "lmao I'm conquering". He can't get Doom's motivation because he's literally a pale imitation of him. And he shouldn't. And that's besides the fact. The issue is that these movies need escalating problems and scope. Thanos was a Universal threat. Clown Kang is being turned into a Multiversal one. There's nowhere higher to go. There's the Omniverse but that's a useless term. I doubt they'll even acknowledge Brian and the CBC. They'll just let Betsy be Captain Britain and involve her in X-Stuff exclusively. Doom's left in the dust. He's trashed for Clown Kang to be propped up. It's insulting. Both Secret Wars are stolen from him. T'Challa is dead so no DoomWar. Stark's dead so no Camelot Trilogy. Strange will be gone by the time he arrives so no Triumph & Torment, and even then that's a character building sidestory. Infinity Gauntlet/War/Crusade was already adapted and he wasn't featured. There's nothing left bar "ohohoho I'm gonna kill the FF tomorrow" one-offs, his origin, and some slice of life tales. There's nothing worth adapting. What, are they gonna do Unthinkable where he skinned a woman and turned her into armour because Waid is a retarded manchild who cannot stand people liking characters who aren't Boy Scouts? It's all being given to the Space Clown. And even then the whole core of the Incursions will be absent considering there's no Illuminati or Avengers Machine. It'll just be Busiek's Kang Dynasty with shoehorned Incursions to cash in on the memberies while Tobey and the rest are still able to walk.

Maybe in 2026 I'll be proven wrong and Clown Kang will turn out to be a chump who gets dispatched by Doom and yadda yadda yadda. But I doubt it. The MCU has a habit of butchering stories, but completely robbing Doom blind is heresy. And I can't ignore it. I get your point, but it's not a sidestory being loaned, it's the crowning achievement of someone being stolen.

 

[jye4ever]

This movie looks like a big glob of cgi mess oozing all over the place lol

 

[chrisstbh]

This movie looks like a big glob of cgi mess oozing all over the place lol

I found an exclusive set photo

 

[The Buffinator]

Nobody cares about the 500 times Doom has fought the FF because he was bored out of his skull. The memorable stories are the ones that go big. And Kang's stealing the most famous ones. These are 2-3 hour movies, not ongoings. Every character gets one arc. Stark got three solos and appeared in movies for 11 years and they still didn't do Armour Wars. Doom getting all his big stories stolen from him doesn't mean he has others to fall back on, it means he's reduced to a footnote. Kang could've had his one phase story and been left at that. He was perfectly serviceable as a mid boss. There was literally no need to steal from a superior character to overextend his role.

Maybe in 2026 I'll be proven wrong and Clown Kang will turn out to be a chump who gets dispatched by Doom and yadda yadda yadda. But I doubt it. The MCU has a habit of butchering stories, but completely robbing Doom blind is heresy. And I can't ignore it. I get your point, but it's not a sidestory being loaned, it's the crowning achievement of someone being stolen.

I'll take your word for it on their stealing Doom's best stories. Like the majority of the movie going public, I consider his character's crowning achievement to be dating Jessica Alba's Sue Storm in Fantastic Four, so clearly I'm not one to debate this with you. I will say that (while unlikely) it's possible that after three less than stellar appearances in FF movies to date that Feige has determined Doom's had his chance on the big stage and it's time to go with his understudy lol...

Hey, maybe they have a completely original story arc planned for Doom that isn't lifted directly from the comics. I think you should cling to that idea. Better to think positively than to be all.........Doom and Gloom!

 

[Wor-Gar]

What's with all the psychedelia style for Phase 4? Are the creators showing their age?

Quantumania?

Multiverse of Madness?

They all sound like bad rides, man.

 

[All Might]

My reaction to the trailer: Meh.

Phase 4 really killed any excitement I had for the greater MCU. At this point I’m just here for GOTG, Spider-Man, and hopefully a good Daredevil/Punisher. I have zero expectations for X-Men and FF.

As others said, I too was a huge MCU fan, still am for Phases 1-3 (just finished my rewatch last week!). Would look forward to the movies every year, must see in theaters. Collected probably 75ish MCU Hot Toys as well. Bought a lot of merch.

Now?

Phase 4 Movies in Theaters: 0 (yup not even NWH)

Phase 4 TV Shows Completed: 4 (WandaVision, D-. Falcon/Winter Soldier, C-. Loki, C-. Hawkeye, B-, F- Finale)

Phase 4 TV Shows One Episode and Quit: Ms Marvel (made it a whole 5 minutes). She-Hulk (just for Bruce and even that didn’t make sense). Moon Knight (really awful seeing Poe again).

Phase 4 Hot Toys: 7 (3 Spider-Man, Goblin, Ock, Electro, Life Size Baby Groot). Which is down by like 20 compared to what I usually would buy.

At this point, I’ll still try to watch each movie and show, but I’m not going out of my way to see them, if I get around to it, I’ll watch. If not, oh well. I expect I won’t even finish Black Panther 2 whenever it comes out on D+.

 

[Victοr]

I'll take your word for it on their stealing Doom's best stories. Like the majority of the movie going public, I consider his character's crowning achievement to be dating Jessica Alba's Sue Storm in Fantastic Four, so clearly I'm not one to debate this with you. I will say that (while unlikely) it's possible that after three less than stellar appearances in FF movies to date that Feige has determined Doom's had his chance on the big stage and it's time to go with his understudy lol...

Hey, maybe they have a completely original story arc planned for Doom that isn't lifted directly from the comics. I think you should cling to that idea. Better to think positively than to be all.........Doom and Gloom!

Fox Dooms were not even Doom, they were Luthor/Osborn with Electro's Powers. If Feige had that thought, then they wouldn't even be making another FF movie. If indeed Feige is enough of a moron to hold such a belief, unlikely as it is, then the MCU deserves to crash and burn before they get to the X-Men. And honestly, I think it's likely. Now they're saying that they'll push back the slate even further to fit in even more stuff before TKD, like the Shang-Chi sequel, the Vision series nobody asked for, and an adaptation of Marvel's newest attempt at Harry Potter starring Wong. Lest we forget Echo and Agatha, because those were really needed shows... We'll get the FF in 2026 and SW in 2027 by that point, and even zoomers who grew up with the MCU will be too tired to care. These are all rumours and everything, but the entire thing is mishandled and needlessly convoluted and milked out. Just do the damn TKD flick, kill off the Clown and move on. We'll know at SDCC I suppose.

And I'm sorry. I don't care about "original arcs". We've seen how "great" the MCU is when they try to be "original". I care that Doom's being robbed blind for an inferior character to be propped up. That's all there is to it. Doom will come off as a rip-off and a lesser threat, and all because Clown Kang stole all of his best moments. That's unacceptable. Thanos was mishandled, but they didn't steal any Non-Thanos stories to prop him up. He didn't unleash the Annihilation Wave or something. But with Doom it's open season. KuKulKan already technically stole DoomWar. Kang's stealing both Secret Wars. It's ridiculous.

 

[chrisstbh]

What's with all the psychedelia style for Phase 4? Are the creators showing their age?

Quantumania?

Multiverse of Madness?

They all sound like bad rides, man.

The MCU has really dropped the ball with the whole “multiverse” thing.

 

[jye4ever]

The MCU has really dropped the ball with the whole “multiverse” thing.

It really is a convoluted mess there are like 25 characters who possibly caused it lol

They just threw everything at the wall to see what would stick.

 

[chrisstbh]

It really is a convoluted mess there are like 25 characters who possibly caused it lol

They just threw everything at the wall to see what would stick.

And nothing has.

 

[The Buffinator]

Fox Dooms were not even Doom, they were Luthor/Osborn with Electro's Powers. If Feige had that thought, then they wouldn't even be making another FF movie. If indeed Feige is enough of a moron to hold such a belief, unlikely as it is, then the MCU deserves to crash and burn before they get to the X-Men. And honestly, I think it's likely. Now they're saying that they'll push back the slate even further to fit in even more stuff before TKD, like the Shang-Chi sequel, the Vision series nobody asked for, and an adaptation of Marvel's newest attempt at Harry Potter starring Wong. Lest we forget Echo and Agatha, because those were really needed shows... We'll get the FF in 2026 and SW in 2027 by that point, and even zoomers who grew up with the MCU will be too tired to care. These are all rumours and everything, but the entire thing is mishandled and needlessly convoluted and milked out. Just do the damn TKD flick, kill off the Clown and move on. We'll know at SDCC I suppose.

And I'm sorry. I don't care about "original arcs". We've seen how "great" the MCU is when they try to be "original". I care that Doom's being robbed blind for an inferior character to be propped up. That's all there is to it. Doom will come off as a rip-off and a lesser threat, and all because Clown Kang stole all of his best moments. That's unacceptable. Thanos was mishandled, but they didn't steal any Non-Thanos stories to prop him up. He didn't unleash the Annihilation Wave or something. But with Doom it's open season. KuKulKan already technically stole DoomWar. Kang's stealing both Secret Wars. It's ridiculous.

OK, doom and gloom it is.