McCain Shocker!

[barbelith]

There is nothing arbitrary about the premises from which individual rights derive.

That's another opinion. But the fact is any premise you serve up can be dismissed as arbitrary by someone with a conflicting perspective. That's the major weakness of all philosophical systems.

But Objectivism does not, and the concepts are fully grounded now. If there were no real connection, then the philosophy would have been an abject failure.

Objectivism is an abject failure as a philosophy, which is why it's been relegated to a status somewhere south of Scientology in the credibility stakes. I'm sure there are a few dozen people somewhere who take it seriously.

If a Nazi walks around talking about how taxes need to be raised on the oil companies, and you agree, is it proper for me to call you out for Nazi sympathies?

A better analogy would be me denying the Holocaust. And I didn't say you sympathized with the Klan. Your constant habit of making things up does you no favors.

 

[hoodonit00]

Slightly off-topic: so what the hell do you collect, anyway? Is "hoodonit00" an alias for some other Freak who wants to keep their political opinion separate from their collecting?

No, why would it be. I've been here for a couple years and at OneSixthWarriors for alot of years. I don't play the troll account. I collect HotToys, bbi when they were active, and LOTR. Why would you think I'm a troll, I have nothing to hide, within reason of course.

 

[barbelith]

And my point is you said "If you can figure out how it applies, sure!" so I am mearly showing you how the word applies...

But how does it actually apply to the conversation? It's like you're just randomly saying things...

 

[automaton]

who is to say what is a good lead? who is to say there is a lead at all?

 

[barbelith]

Until evidence that a crime is being committed is produced, any American citizen is an innocent American citizen, regardless of their political belief.

I've noticed how often people forget this, too.

I personally find anarchism to be an incredibly naive political philosophy, but when we start singling out people for their beliefs instead of for their actions is when we have gone too far down the merry road to fascism.

Of course hoodonit00 has already expressed his desire to eliminate half the country based on their beliefs. I don't think you're going to get very far here.

 

[Adoptedscot]

Slightly off-topic: so what the hell do you collect, anyway? Is "hoodonit00" an alias for some other Freak who wants to keep their political opinion separate from their collecting?

Not off topic, in fact lets make it the topic !!...

...but play nice I know how all this collectable talk can become argumentative and unpleasant
x

 

[metaphorge]

Why would you think I'm a troll, I have nothing to hide, within reason of course.

Was just curious as to why this was the first time I'd seen your posting; I had noted that you had been registered for a couple of years. I didn't mean to infer that you're a troll, as you've (to some degree) kept your opinion to the issues at hand.

I'm finding this thread particularly interesting as it's a pretty different range of political opinion than I run into where I live. In the Bay Area I'm pretty much in the center, ideology-wise, and get crap from my friends for being hawkish (relatively) on foreign policy.

I also find it pretty funny that SF terrorizes much of the rest of the country.

I also own both a 1:6 Adolf Hitler and a 1:6 Franklin Roosevelt, and I make them have fistfights. Usually FDR runs Hitler down with his wheelchair. ;D

 

[devilof76]

Until evidence that a crime is being committed is produced, any American citizen is an innocent American citizen, regardless of their political belief. I personally find anarchism to be an incredibly naive political philosophy, but when we start singling out people for their beliefs instead of for their actions is when we have gone too far down the merry road to fascism.

I agree with you 100%.

That's another opinion. But the fact is any premise you serve up can be dismissed as arbitrary by someone with a conflicting perspective. That's the major weakness of all philosophical systems.

Objectivism is an abject failure as a philosophy, which is why it's been relegated to a status somewhere south of Scientology in the credibility stakes. I'm sure there are a few dozen people somewhere who take it seriously.

The entire field of philosophy is a bankrupt joke. The trends of the past 200 years have climaxed in a post-modernist black hole. They have nothing to offer whatsoever, beyond justifications for radical subjectivism, pragmatism, relativism, and shiny new veneer for the poverty worshipping, freedom hating, mass murdering collectivist politics of the past two centuries.

Why would anyone in the field, or the humanities, which depend on philosophers for their basic intellectual framework, take seriously a woman who had the nerve to discover an objective theory of concept formation, derive a scientifically demonstrable ethics, and articulate an ironclad proof that pure capitalism was the only social system in which political liberty could be guaranteed?

Why would a century worth of academics give a shred of credibility to a woman who showed them all for the irrational, pretentious, control freaks that they were?

A better analogy would be me denying the Holocaust. And I didn't say you sympathized with the Klan. Your constant habit of making things up does you no favors.

How many sides of your mouth can you speak out of at once?

 

[metaphorge]

So your saying that through wiretapping, the CIA picks up solid evidence that a Muslim Extremist is going to drive a car bomb through a marathon that they shouldn' try to detain him until he is in the process of doing it. And yes. I don't care if someone is black, white, asian, muslime, hindu, christian. If the police have a pretty good lead that they are up to something illegal then I think the police have grounds to stop it.

The CIA should not be doing domestic wiretapping. Did you mean the police or the FBI, or are you fundamentally that unfamiliar with how law enforcement and intelligence gathering works and where the divisions between them lay?

In any case, any law enforcement or intelligence agency should only be operating within the parameters that have been legally set for them through legislation and legal precedent, and the moment this stops on a consistent basis we no longer have an America remotely worth defending.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Saw the latter half of the McCain speech last night. Pretty good I thought. Prior to the RNC I was not going to vote because I dislike most of the democratic party line (and Obama follows it step by step) and I felt McCain would only play to fears of the war.

But Palin has me energized and McCain, while strong on the need to defend the country, seems to have ideas for domestic stuff too. McCain also seems much more his own man and less of a party zombie like Obama.

 

[creature4000]

Saw the latter half of the McCain speech last night. Pretty good I thought. Prior to the RNC I was not going to vote because I dislike most of the democratic party line (and Obama follows it step by step) and I felt McCain would only play to fears of the war.

But Palin has me energized and McCain, while strong on the need to defend the country, seems to have ideas for domestic stuff too. McCain also seems much more his own man and less of a party zombie like Obama.

I agree... I just wish the War or terrorism was not in the top 3 things to fix right now.

 

[woodsy]

Saw the latter half of the McCain speech last night. Pretty good I thought. Prior to the RNC I was not going to vote because I dislike most of the democratic party line (and Obama follows it step by step) and I felt McCain would only play to fears of the war.

But Palin has me energized and McCain, while strong on the need to defend the country, seems to have ideas for domestic stuff too. McCain also seems much more his own man and less of a party zombie like Obama.

Like him or not, with McCain what you see is what you get. He's not pretending to be something he isn't....unlike a certain Democratic candidate who I choose not to name.

 

[FQRizzo]

Like him or not, with McCain what you see is what you get.

Looks to me like you'll get George W. Bush II: The Sequel.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Looks to me like you'll get George W. Bush II: The Sequel.

Same here. I just see his distancing himself from his party and painting the portrait of "the maverick" as a tool to get Americans to sign up for another 4 years of Republican rule.

I say that 8 years is enough... and Obama isn't a Dem zombie.. He's got my vote, as well as my Wife's.

 

[Spartan Rex]

The CIA should not be doing domestic wiretapping. Did you mean the police or the FBI, or are you fundamentally that unfamiliar with how law enforcement and intelligence gathering works and where the divisions between them lay?

In any case, any law enforcement or intelligence agency should only be operating within the parameters that have been legally set for them through legislation and legal precedent, and the moment this stops on a consistent basis we no longer have an America remotely worth defending.

The CIA might be tapping or listening on the "other end," out side our borders.
But most likely that job falls to the NSA. Easily the most secretive U.S. agency.
Satellites monitor communications globally and computer programs
filter them for key words...the internet is also heavily monitored.
Im sure they have other tricks up their sleeves but we will never know.

 

[woodsy]

Looks to me like you'll get George W. Bush II: The Sequel.

I don't think so , McCain's his own man, always has been......., though even that would still be preferable to the wingnut alternative.

 

[Spartan Rex]

I say that 8 years is enough... and Obama isn't a Dem zombie.. He's got my vote, as well as my Wife's.

What exactly has he done to show his independence from the party?
Can you give an example of Obama reaching across the aisle to compromise with Republicans?
McCain has, I dont like it, but he has.

 

[barbelith]

Why would anyone in the field, or the humanities, which depend on philosophers for their basic intellectual framework, take seriously a woman who had the nerve to discover an objective theory of concept formation, derive a scientifically demonstrable ethics, and articulate an ironclad proof that pure capitalism was the only social system in which political liberty could be guaranteed?

There's nothing to take seriously. There is no "objective theory of concept formation." There are no "scientifically demonstrable ethics." And "pure capitalism" is not "the only social system in which political liberty [can] be guaranteed." Your entire premise is based on arbitrary foundations.

How many sides of your mouth can you speak out of at once?

I haven't said anything contradictory.

 

[barbelith]

I don't think so , McCain's his own man, always has been...

He used to be. Now his voting record is Bush II.

 

[woodsy]

What exactly has he done to show his independence from the party?
Can you give an example of Obama reaching across the aisle to compromise with Republicans?
McCain has, I dont like it, but he has.

Obama hasn't done anything...he just talks alot, hoping people are foolish enough to believe to him. I love his change and hope speeches though.......more government programs, more government spending, and higher taxes....yeah that ought to shake up the Washington establishment to it's very core