Molecule8 John Lennon UPDATE 5/10/18 - SCAM COMPANY!

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

That will be Hot Toys b**** Budget Stark im guessing
I wonder how Hot toys went on when they released there first figure, I bet it wasn't such well oiled machine as it is now, And yes I know they probably didn't promise the earth or take pre-orders before showing the product but I bet they didn't put nowhere near as much effort into it as Lennon seems to be getting, I have never seen such minuscule metal framed mass produced glasses in all my time as collector.
I actually couldn't give two flying ****s how long it takes or what they say, if they deliver to me an outstanding Lennon and from what I see it looks to be getting there I'll be happy.

It's been so long, I don't remember

 

[Comatoast]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

And you still haven't, you've seen a picture of one pair of prototype glasses, not even close to being mass produced.

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about - are you even ordering this figure? Are you a self-professed champion of people who you feel are being taken advantage of? If so, we're fine, thanks. We're (mainly) all adults here that can make our own decisions. Are you and the others who feel the need to express to everyone who has ordered that they are fools doing so to set yourselves up for a big "told you so" possibility? Why? Do you feel good about that?

Let's do some math...

I'm guessing wildly at most of these numbers, but I believe they're either close or underestimated. If anyone with knowledge wants to correct me please do.

K.A. Kim sculpt: $8,000 (+/- $2,000)
John Lennon licensing Rights: $30,000 (including lawyers fees. And just to promote the figure to being with, forget the residuals on each figure sold)
Website: $5,000
Prototyping: $30,000 (including travel, production costs, shipping materials, sourcing materials, etc.)
Negotiations to secure worldwide distributors: $10,000 (lawyers etc.)
Trade show booth and show space: $6,000
Employee pay (8 months, assuming the four managers listed): $100k

So putting aside the money spent for licensing the other franchises they have on the site (at least another $50k - $75k I'd guess), they're into Lennon for around $180k - 190k. Assuming they pre-sold, what...500? Maybe that's generous at this point, but that is approx $150k. that includes shipping the figure which for each is likely an average of $20 or $10k.

So if you're scoring at home, that's $180k out, maybe $140k in, for a grand total of a loss of $40k. They have to sell at least 650 of these to break even - at least with my estimated numbers which, again, are likely low. That's just direct sales. Distributors get a cut, so those sold through distributors will likely cost them about $75 ea. Assuming another 500 sold through distributors, that's a loss of $38k off direct sales.

This would be the dumbest long con in the history of cons if they don't deliver anything since they will need to sell more post-production. And it assumes they paid for rights to the other franchises just to "throw us all off" of the big scam! Since if Lennon is all just a con, they won't be selling any of those.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about - are you even ordering this figure? Are you a self-professed champion of people who you feel are being taken advantage of? If so, we're fine, thanks. We're (mainly) all adults here that can make our own decisions. Are you and the others who feel the need to express to everyone who has ordered that they are fools doing so to set yourselves up for a big "told you so" possibility? Why? Do you feel good about that?

Let's do some math...

I'm guessing wildly at most of these numbers, but I believe they're either close or underestimated. If anyone with knowledge wants to correct me please do.

K.A. Kim sculpt: $8,000 (+/- $2,000)
John Lennon licensing Rights: $30,000 (including lawyers fees. And just to promote the figure to being with, forget the residuals on each figure sold)
Website: $5,000
Prototyping: $30,000 (including travel, production costs, shipping materials, sourcing materials, etc.)
Negotiations to secure worldwide distributors: $10,000 (lawyers etc.)
Trade show booth and show space: $6,000
Employee pay (8 months, assuming the four managers listed): $100k

So putting aside the money spent for licensing the other franchises they have on the site (at least another $50k - $75k I'd guess), they're into Lennon for around $180k - 190k. Assuming they pre-sold, what...500? Maybe that's generous at this point, but that is approx $150k. that includes shipping the figure which for each is likely an average of $20 or $10k.

So if you're scoring at home, that's $180k out, maybe $140k in, for a grand total of a loss of $40k. They have to sell at least 650 of these to break even - at least with my estimated numbers which, again, are likely low. That's just direct sales. Distributors get a cut, so those sold through distributors will likely cost them about $75 ea. Assuming another 500 sold through distributors, that's a loss of $38k off direct sales.

This would be the dumbest long con in the history of cons if they don't deliver anything since they will need to sell more post-production. And it assumes they paid for rights to the other franchises just to "throw us all off" of the big scam! Since if Lennon is all just a con, they won't be selling any of those.

I'm not reading all of that but financial commitment is not some kind of prerequisite in order to be allowed to be critical of a product or company.

Most people in this thread skipping Lennon had high hopes for proposed future releases such as Wonka, Jack Burton or their teased 1/4 Lord of the Rings line.

 

[Underworld54]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

And you still haven't, you've seen a picture of one pair of prototype glasses, not even close to being mass produced.

They won't find a factory to reproduce that intricacy at such a high volume, no chance.

 

[Underworld54]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

I believe we at least convinced one person to get a refund from M8 and to replace the order with a no risk retailer. It's likely way more than one.

 

[Comatoast]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Fine be critical...when it's warranted. But what is the point of posting how everything is fake and those who are posting positively are fools?

And if you're waiting for this to shake out before thinking of ordering Wonka or others...then wait. Or go to the thread for those figures (or start one) and whine about how it may never materialize there.

I'm not reading all of that but financial commitment is not some kind of prerequisite in order to be allowed to be critical of a product or company.

Most people in this thread skipping Lennon had high hopes for proposed future releases such as Wonka, Jack Burton or their teased 1/4 Lord of the Rings line.

 

[skullboy]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

They won't find a factory to reproduce that intricacy at such a high volume, no chance.

Im so going to book mark this, if they do you are going to look a little foolish.
May I ask what is your opinion based on?

And you still haven't, you've seen a picture of one pair of prototype glasses, not even close to being mass produced.

Thats what I said, "I haven't" maybe soon I will.

 

[Underworld54]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Im so going to book mark this, if they do you are going to look a little foolish.
May I ask what is your opinion based on?



Thats what I said, "I haven't" maybe soon I will.

Based on a mass produced it nearly always has a dip in appearance, this will be no different.

 

[skullboy]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Based on a mass produced it nearly always has a dip in appearance, this will be no different.

Sorry you have lost me, this is not a sculpt.
I have worked with cnc machines, this will be done by laser cutting machine, if they can do one chances are they were done on a sheet that contained a set amount, so if they can do one sheet they can do as many as they want.

 

[jra81984]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

This would be the dumbest long con in the history of cons if they don't deliver anything since they will need to sell more post-production. And it assumes they paid for rights to the other franchises just to "throw us all off" of the big scam! Since if Lennon is all just a con, they won't be selling any of those.

Seems perfectly laid out and logical to me! It still won't quiet all the people who love to call them scam artists. I have been saying it all along that they have spent a ton of money on this. Web Sites like theirs certainly do not come cheap. And we also know they have hired top talent to work on the tick and Wonka... was that all smoke and mirrors too? Absolutely not. A scam artist would have stopped posting updates a very long time ago, but they keep posting new stuff they are working on.

Clearly they are still figuring it all out, and this thing is going to be delayed for a long time. However just because they showed new glasses does not mean other parts of the figure have not already gone into production.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Fine be critical...when it's warranted. But what is the point of posting how everything is fake and those who are posting positively are fools?

And if you're waiting for this to shake out before thinking of ordering Wonka or others...then wait. Or go to the thread for those figures (or start one) and whine about how it may never materialize there.

I'm good "whining" here, thanks. Get over yourself.

The people running this company have consistently lied at every step of this product's development. That's an inarguable, inalienable fact. Further, for anyone who keeps track of the videogame industry these people don't have too hot a reputation there to begin with - a string of projects ranging from under-delivery to outright failure. The manner in which they've communicated with their customer base throughout this entire process is textbook videogame industry bull**** too.

You may well receive your Lennon figure - albeit months or even years late - but the chances of it living up to the hype are minimal at best.

 

[skullboy]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

I'm good "whining" here, thanks. Get over yourself.

The people running this company have consistently lied at every step of this product's development. That's an inarguable, inalienable fact. Further, for anyone who keeps track of the videogame industry these people don't have too hot a reputation there to begin with - a string of projects ranging from under-delivery to outright failure. The manner in which they've communicated with their customer base throughout this entire process is textbook videogame industry bull**** too.

You may well receive your Lennon figure - albeit months or even years late - but the chances of it living up to the hype are minimal at best.

Who cares if they said it would be ready and its not, **** me I lie most days in my job, give me a a decent figure and I'll be happy.

Maybe they should use the Hot Toys communication rule book NONE

 

[Lejuan]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Hot Toys doesn't take paid preorders on their stuff.

 

[Underworld54]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

The M8 posse is out in force today. They disappear until a new "improvement" shows up.

 

[mr sinister]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Well **** me these are some of the dumbest posts I've read.
Sure some of you would buy actual dog **** if it was presented with a nice enough add campaign.

 

[skullboy]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

Well **** me these are some of the dumbest posts I've read.
Sure some of you would buy actual dog **** if it was presented with a nice enough add campaign.

Like I said, give me a decent figure and I dont give a ****** what they say. Im not interested in all the "they said this and they said that bull****".
Once its in hand and if it looks good no ****er will remember all this ********.

The M8 posse is out in force today. They disappear until a new "improvement" shows up.

So you still think they wont be able to mass produce the glasses?

 

[jal76]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

I would love to be proven wrong by M8...I get easily 100 times more enjoyment out of owning an awesome figure than I get out of being "right" or even better "winning an argument on SSF." I'm a Lennon fan and even if I were not I would buy 10 Lennon's to give this company enough success to be able to get to a Travis Bickle figure. M8 PLEASE prove me wrong! Unfortunately I don't think I will be...and I definitely do not believe that they set this up to be a scam...it just gradually devolved into one once they realized that they were in over their heads and chose to tell a bunch of lies...sorry.

 

[Tom Day]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

This is the kind of crap I'm talking about - are you even ordering this figure? Are you a self-professed champion of people who you feel are being taken advantage of? If so, we're fine, thanks. We're (mainly) all adults here that can make our own decisions. Are you and the others who feel the need to express to everyone who has ordered that they are fools doing so to set yourselves up for a big "told you so" possibility? Why? Do you feel good about that?

Let's do some math...

I'm guessing wildly at most of these numbers, but I believe they're either close or underestimated. If anyone with knowledge wants to correct me please do.

K.A. Kim sculpt: $8,000 (+/- $2,000)
John Lennon licensing Rights: $30,000 (including lawyers fees. And just to promote the figure to being with, forget the residuals on each figure sold)
Website: $5,000
Prototyping: $30,000 (including travel, production costs, shipping materials, sourcing materials, etc.)
Negotiations to secure worldwide distributors: $10,000 (lawyers etc.)
Trade show booth and show space: $6,000
Employee pay (8 months, assuming the four managers listed): $100k

So putting aside the money spent for licensing the other franchises they have on the site (at least another $50k - $75k I'd guess), they're into Lennon for around $180k - 190k. Assuming they pre-sold, what...500? Maybe that's generous at this point, but that is approx $150k. that includes shipping the figure which for each is likely an average of $20 or $10k.

So if you're scoring at home, that's $180k out, maybe $140k in, for a grand total of a loss of $40k. They have to sell at least 650 of these to break even - at least with my estimated numbers which, again, are likely low. That's just direct sales. Distributors get a cut, so those sold through distributors will likely cost them about $75 ea. Assuming another 500 sold through distributors, that's a loss of $38k off direct sales.

This would be the dumbest long con in the history of cons if they don't deliver anything since they will need to sell more post-production. And it assumes they paid for rights to the other franchises just to "throw us all off" of the big scam! Since if Lennon is all just a con, they won't be selling any of those.

I respect your point of view and I'm impressed by your arguments, especially when you say that everyone buying this is an adult. It's important that people make their own decisions.

In my opinion M8 isn't a scam or a con, it's a cluster**** - a company fuelled by ******** that has got in way over its head, with no real understanding of the difficulties involved in manufacturing such a figure. The only time they've done anything other than post renders was when they attended that show in Asia; the figure looked awful and in general their appearance there looked like amateur night. When people decided they wanted their money back M8 made a number of forum members here wait a long time and only PayPal got their money back for them.

We are all adults but some people know the hobby better than others. A lot of people buying this will be Beatles fans who know nothing about 1/6 figures and may not realise that if they pay them with a credit card for a pre-order they will find it hard to get their money back.

 

[Godfather1408]

Re: Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

I'm still not 100% sold on this company however I don't think they are out to scam anyone.

My honest thought's a bunch of unexperienced people who thought producing game's and figure's were on the same lines and are learning the hard way.
I gotta admire some of their effort's wanting to give a product that isn't half assed and making sure it's good, I think they will deliver! What they deliver is another question.

It would be nice to know as a customer where we actually stand like where the production is at? Is it even in production yet?
They have even told people if unsure wait until the final product is in hands and then order!

I defiantly don't think Wonka should be up for PO given Lennon hasn't even been finished...... It's a waiting game if they can deliver then I'd be happy to wait as long as we are getting a decent product.

 

[Comatoast]

Molecule8 - 1/6th Scale John Lennon

I respect your point of view and I'm impressed by your arguments, especially when you say that everyone buying this is an adult.

We are all adults but some people know the hobby better than others. A lot of people buying this will be Beatles fans who know nothing about 1/6 figures and may not realise that if they pay them with a credit card for a pre-order they will find it hard to get their money back.

Here's the thing - no one's holding a gun to your head to pre-order. In the hobby or not, people have the means to do research online or decide to wait or not buy. If I see one of those "buy now, limited time/edition, etc." for a product I'm interested in, before plunking down $100, $50, even $20 dollars - I look into the company and their reputation. If I'm at all in doubt but really want that product I buy it with a card that guarantees purchases if they drop the ball or skip town. But I also buy with the idea that that could happen.

All that said, everything I said in the "math" post stands; this would be a money-losing "scam". If you're trying to pull that off - you hide in the shadows and don't spend any money - you don't build a site and open an IG, FB, Twitter account and post your names all over it. Take the money and run, that's that game.

Maybe they're not great at what they're doing. MAYBE they're not great at what they're doing YET. It's a first product to market for them. I work with startups - a lot of times they have great ideas and intentions but all the unknowns and unforeseens cause them trouble...initially. At that point, if they get through it, they either learn from it or repeat mistakes and fail again.

As I said before - the jury's out on whether things will go smoother for them in the future. But as far as this figure goes, I don't know what they'll release, but they will release it. So enough with the warnings and the pre-order shaming, please.