Muhammad Ali vs Bruce Lee

[steven.giunta]

No matter how fast Bruce lee is there is no way he would win.ali was arguably the best prize fighter ever,has there ever been a boxer that was close or at his level make the switch to mma?or is it some nobody has beens that couldn't make it in boxing and tried to rekindle there career in mma.were talking about a 135 lb stuntman going toe to toe with maybe the best boxer ever. And maybe lee had people trying to fight him on set ,which I really don't believe,we're they on Ali's level or just other stuntmen trying to make a name for themselves.

 

[thenammagazine]

No matter how fast Bruce lee is there is no way he would win.ali was arguably the best prize fighter ever,has there ever been a boxer that was close or at his level make the switch to mma?or is it some nobody has beens that couldn't make it in boxing and tried to rekindle there career in mma.were talking about a 135 lb stuntman going toe to toe with maybe the best boxer ever. And maybe lee had people trying to fight him on set ,which I really don't believe,we're they on Ali's level or just other stuntmen trying to make a name for themselves.

Lee was a renowned Martial Artist before he got into movies. You mixing him up with Jackie Chan?

 

[SnakeDoctor]

If Ali could get ahold of him ... he'd pound Lee into the ground.

The question is whether Ali could catch him, how long it'd take him -- and whether Lee could do anything to take him out of the fight in the meantime.

My vote would go to Ali. I think Lee could hold him off for a while, and ring his bell quite a few times. But, Ali can take a hell of a beating and keep going ... which is the basis of the rope-a-dope. I think he'd take a beating from Lee, wait for a moment that he could pin him against the ropes/fence/whatever ... and beat him to a pulp.

When that happens, I don't think Lee could withstand a full-frontal assault from Ali for very long. KO. There's a reason they have weight-classes in sport fighting.

SnakeDoc

 

[Lejuan]

were talking about a 135 lb stuntman.

I'm guessing not a single person calling Lee merely a 'stuntman' or 'actor' has more than a week's worth of martial arts experience under their belt.

 

[thenammagazine]

If Ali could get ahold of him ... he'd pound Lee into the ground.

The question is whether Ali could catch him, how long it'd take him -- and whether Lee could do anything to take him out of the fight in the meantime.

My vote would go to Ali. I think Lee could hold him off for a while, and ring his bell quite a few times. But, Ali can take a hell of a beating and keep going ... which is the basis of the rope-a-dope. I think he'd take a beating from Lee, wait for a moment that he could pin him against the ropes/fence/whatever ... and beat him to a pulp.

When that happens, I don't think Lee could withstand a full-frontal assault from Ali for very long. KO. There's a reason they have weight-classes in sport fighting.

SnakeDoc

How effective is Ali going to be though, with shot knees, a shot shoulder and potentially a few kicks to the head. Without your knees, there's no foundation to throw an effective KO punch, nor is there the balance needed for the rope-a-dope.

 

[pturtle]

How effective is Ali going to be though, with shot knees, a shot shoulder and potentially a few kicks to the head. Without your knees, there's no foundation to throw an effective KO punch, nor is there the balance needed for the rope-a-dope.

Do you know how tall Ali is? And how fast his footwork and hand speed was for his weight and height? how much he weighed? Also fighting some real monsters in their prime.

It is too much of a mismatch.

Tyson would absolutely destroy Bruce Lee though. Styles make fights and that would be one Bruce would possibly die in.

 

[thenammagazine]

Tyson would absolutely destroy Bruce Lee though. Styles make fights and that would be one Bruce would possibly die in.

Assuming Lee was sleeping, anemic, there was no medical attention anywhere and Tyson bit his nose off, I agree 100%.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

How effective is Ali going to be though, with shot knees, a shot shoulder and potentially a few kicks to the head. Without your knees, there's no foundation to throw an effective KO punch, nor is there the balance needed for the rope-a-dope.

I won't say that Lee doesn't have a chance. I think he could win. But, if I'm laying money ... I just don't think Lee gets close enough often enough to do that much damage. He'll get in some hits. Some will be blocked, some will be withstood. I don't think Lee would get any headshots or kidney shots ... Ali's good about blocking that stuff. The legs are the vulnerable spot for Ali. If Lee gets in a good leg-breaker or something, Ali may go down. But, I think Lee's going to have a problem getting close enough to crack his knees.

The weight-class issue is a huge problem for Lee. He could very well go down with a single blow to the head if Ali gets him good ... so he's gotta stay way back. Ali has a hell of a reach, and 100 lbs. on him. I don't think he can stay far enough back forever.

SnakeDoc

 

[thenammagazine]

I won't say that Lee doesn't have a chance. I think he could win. But, if I'm laying money ... I just don't think Lee gets close enough often enough to do that much damage. He'll get in some hits. Some will be blocked, some will be withstood. I don't think Lee would get any headshots or kidney shots ... Ali's good about blocking that stuff. The legs are the vulnerable spot for Ali. If Lee gets in a good leg-breaker or something, Ali may go down. But, I think Lee's going to have a problem getting close enough to crack his knees.

The weight-class issue is a huge problem for Lee. He could very well go down with a single blow to the head if Ali gets him good ... so he's gotta stay way back. Ali has a hell of a reach, and 100 lbs. on him. I don't think he can stay far enough back forever.

SnakeDoc

He only has to get close enough to break Ali's forward knee with a kick. And remember, this man can kick faster than a camera's shutter closes, with force. He was constantly being asked to slow down for film. Then it's just a matter of picking Ali apart until he either gives up, or goes out.

 

[Anzik]

I've been a Bruce Lee fan since about 1980 when my brother took me to a Bruce Lee triple feature back before there were VCRs. I started training in Chinese martial arts in 85. With almost 30 years of experience in martial arts, and as a full time martial arts instructor of Chinese systems I have seen first hand the deification of Bruce Lee. His contributions to martial arts cannot be downplayed. He is without question the single most influential figure in martial arts in the history of the world with no exaggeration. He is responsible for the state of martial arts today. He was the catalyst that led to not only the proliferation of martial arts but the questioning of effectiveness and the shattering of the rigidity of what was perceived as "traditional". He made it possible for many systems to avoid extinction, he brought true effectiveness to the forefront of martial arts training for many. The existence of MMA is due, in large measure to the commercialization of martial arts, training little Johnny to get a trophy instead of training him to survive. The quality of martial arts in the 60's and early 70's was light years ahead of what we see now. Back then a black belt was rare, in todays schools it is inevitable. For anyone to dismiss Bruce Lee as an actor or stuntman is ignorant and insulting.
I was once in attendance to a seminar with a classmate of Bruce Lee, grandmaster Moy Yat. He was asked what Bruce Lee was like. He replied "Bruce Lee the kind of guy, you say 'how are you?' he punch you in the face and say where your f'ing kung fu?"
He was a serious fighter, ingenious and not to be underestimated. Most importantly he knew where he needed improvement and learned what he needed.
Neither of these guys can be underestimated and although I think Ali has a distinctive edge, in a physical sense, he would have a severe disadvantage in the Lee had trained with boxers, Ali didn't train with martial artists.
Bruce Lee was a man. He was not the greatest martial artist ever, but he was definitely a true master who refined his craft. He was limited by what was available to him and had he lived it is questionable where his training would have gone.
In the end, this is all a pissing contest since neither would have accepted the fight. There is an old Chinese proverb that says when two tigers fight, one is killed and the other is maimed.

 

[Niltusk]

Bruce Lee got mauled by Judo Gene repeatedly.

Bruce Lee put one of his students in a movie who was actually a pro ball player, because Lee wanted to beat someone on film that he said himself, "too big to beat for real"

Said that his fans want him to fight Ali, said he would like to someday, but said, "look at the size of his fists, he would kill me"

Trained with Chuck Norris repeatedly over the years, but they never fought because as Norris puts it, "I was a professional fighter"

On and on. Many people agree that Bruce was a great, humble guy, fast and skilled, a good teacher and constant learner, but also he was smart enough to understand reality. Some of the statements about him in this thread go beyond hero worship.

 

[Lejuan]

I've been a Bruce Lee fan since about 1980 when my brother took me to a Bruce Lee triple feature back before there were VCRs. I started training in Chinese martial arts in 85. With almost 30 years of experience in martial arts, and as a full time martial arts instructor of Chinese systems I have seen first hand the deification of Bruce Lee. His contributions to martial arts cannot be downplayed. He is without question the single most influential figure in martial arts in the history of the world with no exaggeration. He is responsible for the state of martial arts today. He was the catalyst that led to not only the proliferation of martial arts but the questioning of effectiveness and the shattering of the rigidity of what was perceived as "traditional". He made it possible for many systems to avoid extinction, he brought true effectiveness to the forefront of martial arts training for many. The existence of MMA is due, in large measure to the commercialization of martial arts, training little Johnny to get a trophy instead of training him to survive. The quality of martial arts in the 60's and early 70's was light years ahead of what we see now. Back then a black belt was rare, in todays schools it is inevitable. For anyone to dismiss Bruce Lee as an actor or stuntman is ignorant and insulting.
I was once in attendance to a seminar with a classmate of Bruce Lee, grandmaster Moy Yat. He was asked what Bruce Lee was like. He replied "Bruce Lee the kind of guy, you say 'how are you?' he punch you in the face and say where your f'ing kung fu?"
He was a serious fighter, ingenious and not to be underestimated. Most importantly he knew where he needed improvement and learned what he needed.
Neither of these guys can be underestimated and although I think Ali has a distinctive edge, in a physical sense, he would have a severe disadvantage in the Lee had trained with boxers, Ali didn't train with martial artists.
Bruce Lee was a man. He was not the greatest martial artist ever, but he was definitely a true master who refined his craft. He was limited by what was available to him and had he lived it is questionable where his training would have gone.
In the end, this is all a pissing contest since neither would have accepted the fight. There is an old Chinese proverb that says when two tigers fight, one is killed and the other is maimed.

word

 

[greatlakes6]

He only has to get close enough to break Ali's forward knee with a kick. And remember, this man can kick faster than a camera's shutter closes, with force. He was constantly being asked to slow down for film. Then it's just a matter of picking Ali apart until he either gives up, or goes out.

I have to jump back in here for a minute. You should really have some knowledge before repeating an unintelligent comment. The shutter speed comment is false. The reason that has been brought up in the past is because film speed was much slower back then. It was like slow motion compared to now. Remember, you only know what you were shown and have no control over the speed at which the medium was able to work. You can really only go by what you see in person.

 

[greatlakes6]

Bruce Lee got mauled by Judo Gene repeatedly.

Bruce Lee put one of his students in a movie who was actually a pro ball player, because Lee wanted to beat someone on film that he said himself, "too big to beat for real"

Said that his fans want him to fight Ali, said he would like to someday, but said, "look at the size of his fists, he would kill me"

Trained with Chuck Norris repeatedly over the years, but they never fought because as Norris puts it, "I was a professional fighter"

On and on. Many people agree that Bruce was a great, humble guy, fast and skilled, a good teacher and constant learner, but also he was smart enough to understand reality. Some of the statements about him in this thread go beyond hero worship.

I read that as well. Chuck Norris knew what he was talking about. I think we need to find a way to ask Chuck who would win.

 

[Lejuan]

I read that as well. Chuck Norris knew what he was talking about. I think we need to find a way to ask Chuck who would win.

Chuck had too much respect for Lee to say outright that he'd win, but too proud of a guy to say he'd lose. The 'professional fighter' comment was his way of saying he rated his chances.

 

[Invictus Sol]

I think greatlakes meant ask Chuck about Bruce's odds vs Ali. The more time I've had to contemplate this thread the less chance I think he'd have. I'm quite positive Lee himself wouldn't be as cocky about his chances as his fanboys.

 

[thenammagazine]

I have to jump back in here for a minute. You should really have some knowledge before repeating an unintelligent comment. The shutter speed comment is false. The reason that has been brought up in the past is because film speed was much slower back then. It was like slow motion compared to now. Remember, you only know what you were shown and have no control over the speed at which the medium was able to work. You can really only go by what you see in person.

I apologize. I was under the assumption that since Lee died waaaaaaaay back in 1973 people would naturally come to the conclusion that the shutter speed I was referring to, i.e. the cameras that would be catching his physical movement on film, were from that time frame. But here, now I've spelled it out. Thanks for proving common sense ain't all that common.

 

[Hydeous]

Bruce will win because he'll grab Ali by the ***** (ala FoF and a few of his other movies) and that will be the end of the fight. I believe that particular stance is called 'Monkey Stealing Peaches' move.

 

[greatlakes6]

I think greatlakes meant ask Chuck about Bruce's odds vs Ali. The more time I've had to contemplate this thread the less chance I think he'd have. I'm quite positive Lee himself wouldn't be as cocky about his chances as his fanboys.

You are correct, not Chuck vs. Lee. Ali vs. Lee. The best person to ask, if possible, would be one with the most knowledge of the subjects.

 

[EVILFACE]

I'd have to lean towards Ali, as his fighting career is well documented and is considered to be the best athlete of the 20th Century.