Muhammad Ali vs Bruce Lee

[greatlakes6]

What about a kick from a Master Martial Artist instead of just a regular person.
Any proof to back any of this up? Punch Vs Kick?

Again, it goes back to Force: Mass x Acceleration. Sure Lee would generate more power than the average 135 lb person, but Ali would also generate way more power than the average 220 lb man. Kicks take time and space. Even Lee said himself, that fighting a person with quick hands provides a problem for someone who wants to kick. The kick takes too much time against a professional fighter with quick hands.

 

[TURINS~BANE]

Ali was the best boxer in his time, so if we are talking about a straight boxing match in the ring, Bruce would be know no walk over for Ali but in a boxing match there is a big chance Bruce would get knocked out.
But if we are talking about a street/cage fight with no rules. Bruce would own Ali,

Bruce trained all his body for combat, Ali never kicked, Bruce had fights on the street and on film sets with people that wanted to show
him up and he did **** them up. He was good friends with Steve McQueen another tough basted he couldn't torch him. He was smaller then Ali, but Bruce was strong and had power he was one dangerous man and would give the best a tough battle.

 

[azurepred]

What about a kick from a Master Martial Artist instead of just a regular person.
Any proof to back any of this up? Punch Vs Kick?

heres a comparison between kicking and punching power

[ame]https://youtu.be/KftA7Top_j0[/ame]

 

[greatlakes6]

In the martial arts world, Bruce Lee was widely considered a teacher exclusively, not a fighter. Even in the martial arts world of sub-cultures and hero worship, there is a dueling school of thought that considers facts when gauging anyone’s worth as a fighter: fight record. Is the martial artist’s performance quantifiable? Validated? More than a few-men tournament? More than some showy, inconclusive video clips? Not just word of mouth and interpretations and opinions?

Many in the sport who knew Lee and were friends of his, admit that, there were a few who could beat him, including his close friend Gene Lebell.

 

[azurepred]

Ali was the best boxer in his time, so if we are talking about a straight boxing match in the ring, Bruce would be know no walk over for Ali but in a boxing match there is a big chance Bruce would get knocked out.
But if we are talking about a street/cage fight with no rules. Bruce would own Ali,

Bruce trained all his body for combat, Ali never kicked, Bruce had fights on the street and on film sets with people that wanted to show
him up and he did **** them up. He was good friends with Steve McQueen another tough basted he couldn't torch him. He was smaller then Ali, but Bruce was strong and had power he was one dangerous man and would give the best a tough battle.

going back to what Devil said, if we assume Bruce was as great as the stories say he was, in a street fight, Lee would know how to use his knees, elbows, shoulders, fists and legs. I've noticed some people place Lee's weight somewhere between 135-145. I know if we took the 145lb UFC champ and put him against the heavyweight Klitshko (however you spell his name) in a street fight, I know my money would go on Aldo, the UFC champ.

 

[greatlakes6]

Ali was the best boxer in his time, so if we are talking about a straight boxing match in the ring, Bruce would be know no walk over for Ali but in a boxing match there is a big chance Bruce would get knocked out.
But if we are talking about a street/cage fight with no rules. Bruce would own Ali,

Bruce trained all his body for combat, Ali never kicked, Bruce had fights on the street and on film sets with people that wanted to show
him up and he did **** them up. He was good friends with Steve McQueen another tough basted he couldn't torch him. He was smaller then Ali, but Bruce was strong and had power he was one dangerous man and would give the best a tough battle.

You are seriously comparing some shlubs on a set and Steve McQueen as your match ups? Please. Lee was never truly tested by anyone near the ability of an Ali. McQueen played a tough guy in film. He wanted private lessons from Lee because lee generally didn't do private lessons. There are only a handful, maybe five people, who say they witnessed a Lee fight. The accounts of each of these people varies. At least with Ali, they are documented.

 

[greatlakes6]

Ali was the best boxer in his time, so if we are talking about a straight boxing match in the ring, Bruce would be know no walk over for Ali but in a boxing match there is a big chance Bruce would get knocked out.
But if we are talking about a street/cage fight with no rules. Bruce would own Ali,

Bruce trained all his body for combat, Ali never kicked, Bruce had fights on the street and on film sets with people that wanted to show
him up and he did **** them up. He was good friends with Steve McQueen another tough basted he couldn't torch him. He was smaller then Ali, but Bruce was strong and had power he was one dangerous man and would give the best a tough battle.

By the way, nobody trains their body more diligently to take physical abuse, than a boxer does. They can absorb more punishment, for a longer amount of time, stay focused, and keep up their endurance, better than any other.

 

[greatlakes6]

heres a comparison between kicking and punching power

https://youtu.be/KftA7Top_j0

If all is equal, of course a kick generates more power. Quads, gluts are the strongest muscles in the body, plus the whip action of the leg. But you are comparing apples to apples with the same person demonstrating both. The fair comparison should be a 135 lb fighter kicking vs. a 220 lb boxer punching.

 

[greatlakes6]

Ok guys, this has been interesting and fun. I've given all the information I can and tried to make my point concisely. I'm out, as I can't contribute anymore info. Carry on gentlemen.

 

[azurepred]

By the way, nobody trains their body more diligently to take physical abuse, than a boxer does. They can absorb more punishment, for a longer amount of time, stay focused, and keep up their endurance, better than any other.

your wrong here. Do you study all aspects of fighting or just boxing? Go look at what many muay thai do to their shins and elbows and see what kind of abuse they take from opponents. The reason why a boxer can take a ton of punishment is cause of padded gloves.

And you say boxers "keep up their endurance, better than any other". Grappling cardio is waaaaay different than striking cardio. Even a smaller guy can wipe out a heavyweights cardio with grappling.

If all is equal, of course a kick generates more power. Quads, gluts are the strongest muscles in the body, plus the whip action of the leg. But you are comparing apples to apples with the same person demonstrating both. The fair comparison should be a 135 lb fighter kicking vs. a 220 lb boxer punching.

it doesn't really matter cause all your comparing is one punch or kick knockout strength. A well rounded mma fighter will use everything. Something as basic as a strong clinch will nullify a large amount of a boxers strength.

 

[thenammagazine]

Simple physics:

Force = Mass x Acceleration

This equation shows you how to punch harder and improve your performance in virtually any sport skill. It's a matter of maximizing the amount of your body you can move as quickly as possible. The end result? Crushing blows.

Mass

The more mass you can put into a punch, the more force you will generate. You can see this in action by punching a heavy bag with your arm only and comparing it to the power you can generate by driving through the ground with your legs and rotating your hips. Your full weight behind the punch will create a decidedly different result (heavy bag training).

This is why weight and size play an important role, assuming you know what to do with it.

This train of thought is naive and outdated. So when you throw all that weight and forward momentum into a punch and miss, what do you think happens against an opponent who's considerably faster than you, more agile than you, unnaturally strong for his size, with literally dozens of fighting techniques to pull from his head? As I've already stated, if boxers were the "ideal fighter," they'd be dominating MMA. That's not the case and really never was.

 

[Snake Plissken]

This train of thought is naive and outdated. So when you throw all that weight and forward momentum into a punch and miss, what do you think happens against an opponent who's considerably faster than you, more agile than you, unnaturally strong for his size, with literally dozens of fighting techniques to pull from his head? As I've already stated, if boxers were the "ideal fighter," they'd be dominating MMA. That's not the case and really never was.

 

[wofford29]

This train of thought is naive and outdated. So when you throw all that weight and forward momentum into a punch and miss, what do you think happens against an opponent who's considerably faster than you, more agile than you, unnaturally strong for his size, with literally dozens of fighting techniques to pull from his head? As I've already stated, if boxers were the "ideal fighter," they'd be dominating MMA. That's not the case and really never was.

Do you honestly think Ali would be dumb enough to just start swinging? Lee would never get close enough with a punch or a kick. Ali would jab him around the ring. We're not talking about dumb fighters here. Lee would literally have to throw himself at Ali because he's he certainly not big enough to absorb the blows to work his way in. If a man as big as Inoki had to throw himself at his legs and still had trouble reaching and bringing him down a man giving up a foot and 100 lbs. isn't going to fair much better. Boxing is certainly not the ideal fighting style but given the boxer in discussion and this match up it doesn't have to be.

 

[TheProcrastinator]

The whole "boxers aren't dominating in MMA" argument, while true, is of no censquence in this scenario. Simply becouse Lee cannot be considered an MMA fighter by today's standards. Boxing alone won't get You anywhere in MMA, true, but thats only becouse of the varied skillset that Your opponent will have. Lee didn't excell in any of the grappling or ju-jitsu techniqes that are used to overcome boxers and strikers.

When Bruce came to America, he had absolutely no experience or regard for any grappling style, he didn't even considered it to be a usefull part of fighting. It was only after Gene Lebell (who he met while working on the "Green Hornet"), started to throw Bruce around in a friednly match, did Lee learn the effectivnes of grappling and started training under Lebell. But that was it. He was just a student, not a master wrestler or BJJ practicioner who was good enough to keep a professional boxer at bay with his ground game.

Also when Your opponet is having such a huge size, weight and reach advantage, its not enough to simply know grappling, You would have to be a MASTER in order to effectively take someone like Ali to the ground.

 

[Anzik]

If they went for survival, Lee could use the Wing Chun finger strikes to the eyes.

 

[Shai]

135 lbs Bruce lee loll

 

[thenammagazine]

Do you honestly think Ali would be dumb enough to just start swinging? Lee would never get close enough with a punch or a kick. Ali would jab him around the ring. We're not talking about dumb fighters here. Lee would literally have to throw himself at Ali because he's he certainly not big enough to absorb the blows to work his way in. If a man as big as Inoki had to throw himself at his legs and still had trouble reaching and bringing him down a man giving up a foot and 100 lbs. isn't going to fair much better. Boxing is certainly not the ideal fighting style but given the boxer in discussion and this match up it doesn't have to be.

You realize that Lee could kick faster than a film shutter could take a picture, right? As fast as Ali was, only his rope-a-dope was that fast, and that wasn't a long range punch, it was "dirty boxing." Lee doesn't have to throw himself at Ali. He could kick faster than Ali could jab or cross. And powerful kicks to the knee, to the shoulder or to the head aren't something a boxer is used to, let alone, defending against. I have all the respect in the world for Ali as arguably the greatest boxer to ever step in the ring, but he was a man of 2 skill sets, boxing and **** talking. Lee not only knew both intimately and applied both liberally, but he had much more to bring to the ring.

 

[Voorhees27]

Watch the Forman fight again with Ali taking MONSTER blows to the ribs ...... having little effect. Not only was the man dangerous he could also take a serious beating.

Hey unless Lee kicks Ali in the ***** I see no contest. LOL.

I once fought this Vietnamese guy that was DAMN fast. Long sorry short he couldn't kick above my elbows. I manhandled him. I'm not a boxer though. He was a trained fighter.

 

[thenammagazine]

Watch the Forman fight again with Ali taking MONSTER blows to the ribs ...... having little effect. Not only was the man dangerous he could also take a serious beating.

Watch interviews with both Foreman and Ali. Ali had his angels holding him on his feet for that one. Not only that, but the only reason he won is because he broke Foreman with a single comment.

 

[Voorhees27]

I know OT but I LOVED the look on Kings face after Ali told him off