Muhammad Ali vs Bruce Lee

[steven.giunta]

Lee would more than likely get his *** kicked.ali has almost a hundred pounds on him.maybe he could get off a lucky kick but chances are Ali would tune him up.if weight doesn't matter than why is there weight classes in all mama stuff.great fighters have trouble moving up 1 or 2 weights.

 

[Frank]

OK, yep, I get what you're saying and I think likely Lee would be formiddable and has a larger bag of tricks, for sure. I definitely don't think he'd have a glass jaw, I just think Ali's punch strength would overwhelming on Lee's frame. I just don't think any 135 pd frame could physicaaly withstand more than one or two direct hits with that much power behind it, regardless of conditioning. The other advantage I'd give Ali is the 'killer instinct' that he'd have from being in multiple title fights throughout his career. We'll have to agree to disagree but this has been a fun bit of speculation.

That it has.

Lee would more than likely get his *** kicked.ali has almost a hundred pounds on him.maybe he could get off a lucky kick but chances are Ali would tune him up.if weight doesn't matter than why is there weight classes in all mama stuff.great fighters have trouble moving up 1 or 2 weights.

If one discipline is far superior to another in terms of potential bodily harm, size doesn't matter as much. Along the same lines, I'd give Ali a big advantage over Shaq.

 

[wofford29]

If you want to dismiss Lee because he's smaller, go ahead. Classic hubris though!

You're acting as if Lee is fighting a chump. Ali is as skilled at his profession as you get. Size is absolutely a factor. If you put Lee against some Joe Schmo that is Ali's size you can talk about a chance, but that's not the story. IF Lee even got close enough you're talking about giving up 100 lbs. That doesn't even take into consideration the height difference and the power you lose hitting up. Ali wouldn't be defenseless.

 

[greatlakes6]

Is it focused in boxing or spread out over multiple sports?

It is spread out over a multitude of sports. I even worked with the World Champion Badminton players, Benny Lee and Liz Ahronson.

 

[greatlakes6]

This is gonna piss off a lot of Bruce Lee fans but it's the truth, and for the life of me I'll never understand why his name (or people like him) are even brought up in discussions like this pertaining to "fights". Because the truth is, no one IN these discussions have ever even seen him in a real fight. And for the people who claim they have, even their accounts vary.

I know Ali could fight. I know what he accomplished as a fighter. Because I've seen it. His fights are documented. I saw him defeat every single top fighter in his division.

Bruce Lee's status as a fighter is myth. It's all word of mouth stories and depending on how close the teller is/was to Bruce you'll hear different accounts i.e.



close = Bruce Lee slaughtered his opponent
not close = Bruce Lee barely won/lost/it was a draw

So if the choice is between a guy who I know can fight, who's accomplishments I've seen vs. a talented martial artist/actor who's real fighting skills might've been overrated/hyped up.. I'll choose the former.

Because at least that option has some basis in reality.

Very well said.

 

[Frank]

You're acting as if Lee is fighting a chump. Ali is as skilled at his profession as you get. Size is absolutely a factor. If you put Lee against some Joe Schmo that is Ali's size you can talk about a chance, but that's not the story. IF Lee even got close enough you're talking about giving up 100 lbs. That doesn't even take into consideration the height difference and the power you lose hitting up. Ali wouldn't be defenseless.

No, I'm talking about Lee fighting a man that isn't used to protecting his legs or actively using them to attack. Ali is arguably the best at his profession there ever will be, but that profession is shockingly limited compared to other fighting disciplines. I guarantee you Lee could hit those knees with more precision and with greater force than Inoki.

I actually think Lee would run into more problems if we was up against someone with decent wrestling skills. Once you get wrapped up, size counts a whole lot more!

Keep em coming!

[ame]https://youtu.be/SncapPrTusA[/ame]

 

[steven.giunta]

That it has.



If one discipline is far superior to another in terms of potential bodily harm, size doesn't matter as much. Along the same lines, I'd give Ali a big advantage over Shaq.

Yea Ali would tear Shaquille attack a new one.but Shaquille is not a fighter,Ali was a world class boxer.he new how to fight.

 

[steven.giunta]

Also was lee in real fight often?he was a stuntman,sure he looked cool on camera but so does Jackie chan.that doesn't mean chan can take Tyson just because he knows a lot of techniques and styles.its a lot harder to do when you got someone pinching you in the face compared to on a movie set.

 

[greatlakes6]

Ali was a proven boxer. He never fought a martial artist as far as i know, so both are kind of unknown quantities here. If Lee really was really disappointing as a fighter, how could any of his ideas taken hold in the martial arts community?

As it turns out, Bruce wanted to fight Ali too!

https://youtu.be/LTjdNuC1rlc

Frank,

Ali fought Antonio Inoki in 1976. Inoki laid on the ground trying to kick him for 95% of the match. He later said that he had no chance if he were to stand up.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Also was lee in real fight often?he was a stuntman,sure he looked cool on camera but so does Jackie chan.that doesn't mean chan can take Tyson just because he knows a lot of techniques and styles.its a lot harder to do when you got someone pinching you in the face compared to on a movie set.

Uhhh he had to fight many people on set of his films because they tried to prove he was a fake, and in turn he would knock their teeth out.

 

[Frank]

It is spread out over a multitude of sports.

Nice, you must have some great stories to tell. Perhaps some decent blackmail material?

I even worked with the World Champion Badminton players, Benny Lee and Liz Ahronson.

Did you Inception them into Badassminton players?

 

[Invictus Sol]

Uhhh he had to fight many people on set of his films because they tried to prove he was a fake, and in turn he would knock their teeth out.

I'm guessing none of those people were heavyweight champs. Beating some punks isn't much preparation for Ali.

 

[joda76]

Bruce wins this imo. Too many weapons he has regardless of the size difference. Ali is one dimensional and Bruce is an adaptive fighter.

 

[greatlakes6]

This was supposed to be a fixed, make-belief "fight" with a set of ridiculous rules (muzzling and handicaping the moves of both men) between two completely incompatible fighting styles. Both camps did stupid things here. Inoki suddenly decided to fight for real (which wasn't what Ali was prepearing himself for), so the other camp tried franticaly to change the rules.

Also Ali had to wear boxing gloves. Boxing gloves...in a fight against a wrestler. The whole thing was a ridiculous affair.

Ali didn't even know it was a real fight until a few days before they fought. He thought it was going to be a staged match, like wrestling. Even still, you can see as a man at the end of his career he was strong enough to avoid or withstand takedowns from someone his own size. You can also see the trouble someone his own size had reaching him. Like I said earlier, Bruce would never get close enough to be effective.

This fight was all about showmanship. Ali didn't train for a fight, he trained for a show. Part of the gag was that even the ref was supposed to get hit. When Inoki decided to make it real, Ali was put into an unenviable position.

Also, Ali had just knocked out Richard Dunn a few weeks earlier in May. There is no way anybody could possibly think it would be fair to have just fought a few weeks earlier and then have to take on Inoki. Plus the glove issue, etc. Although, in later years, Ali and Inoki became good friends.

 

[greatlakes6]

If you want to dismiss Lee because he's smaller, go ahead. Classic hubris though!

Simple physics:

Force = Mass x Acceleration

This equation shows you how to punch harder and improve your performance in virtually any sport skill. It's a matter of maximizing the amount of your body you can move as quickly as possible. The end result? Crushing blows.

Mass

The more mass you can put into a punch, the more force you will generate. You can see this in action by punching a heavy bag with your arm only and comparing it to the power you can generate by driving through the ground with your legs and rotating your hips. Your full weight behind the punch will create a decidedly different result (heavy bag training).

This is why weight and size play an important role, assuming you know what to do with it.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I'm guessing none of those people were heavyweight champs. Beating some punks isn't much preparation for Ali.

No heavyweight can beat a seasoned martial artist, it goes against logic.

 

[Frank]

Simple physics:

Force = Mass x Acceleration

This equation shows you how to punch harder and improve your performance in virtually any sport skill. It's a matter of maximizing the amount of your body you can move as quickly as possible. The end result? Crushing blows.

Mass

The more mass you can put into a punch, the more force you will generate. You can see this in action by punching a heavy bag with your arm only and comparing it to the power you can generate by driving through the ground with your legs and rotating your hips. Your full weight behind the punch will create a decidedly different result (heavy bag training).

This is why weight and size play an important role, assuming you know what to do with it.

Martial arts is famous for turning out David vs. Goliath stories. Kicks from these guys generate much more force than anything a boxer can throw with his arms. Boxers only have two limbs to deal out damage/block with and they don't grapple. There's really no comparison here.

Now Ali could find something special about the ring to use in his favor (like holding onto the ropes to keep from falling lol), but boxing is just too limited on its own. Nothing against Ali. Would love to have seen him do some real MMA but I guess he was born too soon!

 

[greatlakes6]

Martial arts is famous for turning out David vs. Goliath stories. Kicks from these guys generate much more force than anything a boxer can throw with his arms. Boxers only have two limbs to deal out damage/block with and they don't grapple. There's really no comparison

You got it right, Stories, just stories.

A kick from a 135 lb person does not generate anywhere near the force of a 220 lb professional fighter throwing a punch.

 

[joda76]

You got it right, Stories, just stories.

A kick from a 135 lb person done not generate anywhere near the force of a 220 lb professional fighter throwing a punch.

What about a kick from a Master Martial Artist instead of just a regular person.
Any proof to back any of this up? Punch Vs Kick?

 

[Anzik]

Bruce Lee was great at what he did, but his martial arts were still very externally based. It would have been very difficult to injury or stun Ali enough to utilize any joint manipulation. Ali was masterful at evasion and could take massive amounts of punishment.
There are systems of combat that can neutralize the size and strength advantage but Bruce Lee didn't study those.