NFL Thread

[mfoga]

I don't think Tebow is the answer by himself, because there are times when any QB in the NFL is gonna have to throw, and Tebow just can't do that very well (Vick can). But having a good O-line oriented to running the ball isn't something that would only benefit Tebow. So I don't know if it is a case of having to build a team up around Tebow to fit his style of offense.

And he's proven in the last few games that he can move against NFL defenses. I think his size, instincts, and willpower are what make him a more special player than others who have tried to do the Wildcat previously. Of course, the NFL is not the same as college football, but his style consistently worked against teams prepared for it because he was so good at it. It takes more than just size to succeed in that role.

The O line just a part of the puzzle. You need the right type of receivers, less TE more RBs on depth chart ect... That doesnt fit the conventional NFL offense.

He is tough to prepare for but as they get more tape he will get easier and easier to prepare for. He got a Jets team who had 3 days to prepare and then put up a TOTAL of 229 yards, 95 of which came on final drive and some of the Defense call they made in the final drive were questionable when what they did the whole game had been working and they went away from that.

I just dont see any way unless he magically learns to throw how they can continue to succeed long term. To me its just like the Wildcat, its fun gimmick that will only work for so long in the NFL.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Why haven't defenses figured out Manning or Brady?

The reason is because they are damn good at what they do. Its not like they do anything that is impossible to plan for.

Why is it no one can hit a Nolan Ryan fast ball when they know its coming? Its because he's damn good at throwing the fastball.

This stuff about them "figuring him out" is BS. People had Barry Sanders figured out. People have Michael Jordan down to a science. There's a book on it.

There is a huge leap between being "figured out" and being stopped.

The option doesn't need to work every down to work in total. It came down to Tebow executing on the 1 biggest play of the game and the Jets who had him "figured out" couldn't do ____.

 

[BadMoon]

Can be? He had a decent QB rating at 100 but really nothing more. Marino never had a team. The Eagles have spent 107 million on players this year, and see where that got them? If Marino had the team the Eagles had, they would be fighting the Packers for the best team in the NFL. But unfortunately they are stuck with Vick. If I ask you what quarterback completed 44 percent and 54 percent of his passes you would think I was talking about Tebow right? What about averaging 98 yards a game his first year? Yup, those are all Vicks numbers.

You obviously have no knowledge of the problems going on in Philly. If you think it's Vick you couldn't be farther off the mark.

You can bring in 107 million worth of players. However, it is the coaches job to make sure those players are in the right positions to be effective. That is coaching.

Just look at the Arizona game. The number 1 running back in the NFL (at the time) didn't touch the ball during the last 13 minutes of the game. Not once. That is thanks to the coaches shoddy play calling.

I honestly believe you have zero clue what the hell you are talking about.

 

[mfoga]

Why haven't defenses figured out Manning or Brady?

The reason is because they are damn good at what they do. Its not like they do anything that is impossible to plan for.

Why is it no one can hit a Nolan Ryan fast ball when they know its coming? Its because he's damn good at throwing the fastball.

This stuff about them "figuring him out" is BS. People had Barry Sanders figured out. People have Michael Jordan down to a science. There's a book on it.

There is a huge leap between being "figured out" and being stopped.

The option doesn't need to work every down to work in total. It came down to Tebow executing on the 1 biggest play of the game and the Jets who had him "figured out" couldn't do ____.

They figure out Brady and Manning for games but they have the game to adjust you can't adjust Tebow right, Tebow left, Tebow up the middle.

Ask Vick if they figured him out. He ran all over the league first years then what and it was his speed that caused trouble, Tebow doesnt have that speed.

As for that last play first that was not the option play. Even half the final drive wasnt option, they were empty backfield what option has an empty backfield? They had him figured out but for some reason changed the D they were running and blitzed and got burned. The minute I saw blitz look I knew what was going to happen.

I would say 134 total yards on 11 drives is figured out.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[karamazov80]

The O line just a part of the puzzle. You need the right type of receivers, less TE more RBs on depth chart ect... That doesnt fit the conventional NFL offense.

But their team was set up to run with Orton as QB and is winning with this offense.

Having said that, Prog is making a point similar to mine--it is about more than just knowing what a guy is trying to do. Tebow doesn't run a complicated offense. Defenses can do a bit to help account for his style, but that only goes so far when you play against someone with that really refined skill set and will to win. But again, I do think he needs to share time with a more conventional QB to be maximize the offensive capabilities of whatever team he plays for.

 

[iron.jedi83]

after the game Rex Ryan himself said they knew Tebow was going to run in that final drive and they couldn't stop him.

and i dont think there is anybody that denies he needs to work on his passing game, but there is only so much you could do during the week to prepare for the next team your facing. i think even Tebow says he wants to get better. hopefully this offseason no matter what happens whether they make playoffs or not they give Tebow the coaching neccessary to improve his passing game

 

[DinoDB1975]

That last play the Jets called a blitz, and Safety Eric Smith's responsibility was to contain the edge but he had a brain fart and got squeezed too far inside. Not to say that the Jets would have won (Denver could have still kicked a field goal to tie it and send it to OT), but players have to maintain his responsibilities.

I'm still not convinced that Tebow is a pro NFL QB, but he's 4-1, so what do I know.

First time I've watched Denver play this year, but I was REALLY impressed with Von Miller. Kid's a beast.

 

[karamazov80]

hopefully this offseason no matter what happens whether they make playoffs or not they give Tebow the coaching neccessary to improve his passing game

But he's been trying to improve his passing skills since before he was drafted. I just don't know if that is something he can develop. He's a great athlete, but just because a guy does one thing well athletically doesn't mean he can be trained to do another.

 

[BadMoon]

after the game Rex Ryan himself said they knew Tebow was going to run in that final drive and they couldn't stop him.

and i dont think there is anybody that denies he needs to work on his passing game, but there is only so much you could do during the week to prepare for the next team your facing. i think even Tebow says he wants to get better. hopefully this offseason no matter what happens whether they make playoffs or not they give Tebow the coaching neccessary to improve his passing game

They couldn't stop him because they put on an all out blitz. Had they stayed in coverage they would have stopped him. Dumb play calling IMO.

 

[BadMoon]

That last play the Jets called a blitz, and Safety Eric Smith's responsibility was to contain the edge but he had a brain fart and got squeezed too far inside.

 

[mfoga]

But he's been trying to improve his passing skills since before he was drafted. I just don't know if that is something he can develop. He's a great athlete, but just because a guy does one thing well athletically doesn't mean he can be trained to do another.

He tried to improve at Florida too but would always go back to his old self throwing the ball.

 

[mfoga]

They couldn't stop him because they put on an all out blitz. Had they stayed in coverage they would have stopped him. Dumb play calling IMO.

 

[karamazov80]

Well, it's all about adaptation and how one team plays vis-a-vis another. Brocos/Tebow played a style that worked well against the defense the Jets had in place at the end of the game. You can say the Jets were stupid for their play-calling, but you can just as easily say that the Broncos were really smart to do what they did in that situation.

 

[BadMoon]

Rexy got greedy. I know what his thought process was. Ok here we go. This kid is going to run. My defense will slam him in the back field. Guess what Rex? Your need for the big stop lost you the game and you got burned.

 

[mfoga]

Well, it's all about adaptation and how one team plays vis-a-vis another. Brocos/Tebow played a style that worked well against the defense the Jets had in place at the end of the game. You can say the Jets were stupid for their play-calling, but you can just as easily say that the Broncos were really smart to do what they did in that situation.

Really did you watch the whole game or just last drive? They had 134 yards on 11 drives. The Jets changed what they did on last drive after Tebow magically completed a couple passes instead of sticking to what has worked the whole game. The Jets blew it, it has nothing to do with smart play calling by Broncos.

 

[316what]

It wasn't the "read" option they were doing where Tebow pretends to hand the ball off, but it was the option on several of the plays were they had either a trailing running back that could take a pitch or a lead blocking back that he could shovel to.

A majority of the plays in the final drive were 5 wide/empty backfield sets.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Really did you watch the whole game or just last drive? They had 134 yards on 11 drives. The Jets changed what they did on last drive after Tebow magically completed a couple passes instead of sticking to what has worked the whole game. The Jets blew it, it has nothing to do with smart play calling by Broncos.

If you watched the whole game you know that the Broncos play calling was totally unlike the play calling against Oakland and Kansas City. They hardly ran the option at all during most of the game. A lot of the handoffs were traditional. So what the Jets were containing all game wasn't really the Tebow "package".

 

[drbrad1975]

You obviously have no knowledge of the problems going on in Philly. If you think it's Vick you couldn't be farther off the mark.

You can bring in 107 million worth of players. However, it is the coaches job to make sure those players are in the right positions to be effective. That is coaching.

Just look at the Arizona game. The number 1 running back in the NFL (at the time) didn't touch the ball during the last 13 minutes of the game. Not once. That is thanks to the coaches shoddy play calling.

I honestly believe you have zero clue what the hell you are talking about.

You obviously don't know Vick. We had him far too long. So you are saying the same coaches were good last year, but the same coaches are bad this year? Andy Reid has a been a good coach. Eagles have a newly promoted defensive coordinator, but I really don't think that is the problem (what about 10th in the league in defense?) Blame it on the coaches if you want, but you would be in the same situation next year. Their offensive and defensive rankings are fine. What they truely lack is true leadership which inspires them into believing they can win. Vick can't give you that. Couldn't give it to the falcons and now he can't give it to the eagles. What was his record there? 42-37-1? Hardly an inspiring record.

 

[BadMoon]

You obviously don't know Vick. We had him far too long. So you are saying the same coaches were good last year, but the same coaches are bad this year? Andy Reid has a been a good coach. Eagles have a newly promoted defensive coordinator, but I really don't think that is the problem (what about 10th in the league in defense?) Blame it on the coaches if you want, but you would be in the same situation next year. Their offensive and defensive rankings are fine. What they truely lack is true leadership which inspires them into believing they can win. Vick can't give you that. Couldn't give it to the falcons and now he can't give it to the eagles. What was his record there? 42-37-1? Hardly an inspiring record.

See hater.....that explains your rationale. Atlanta fan.

Vick wasn't even a fraction of the player with Atlanta that he is with the Eagles. Reid is a very good QB coach. Hell he is a very good coach. However, he has lost his way and the respect of his players.

 

[drbrad1975]

See hater.....that explains your rationale. Atlanta fan.

Vick wasn't even a fraction of the player with Atlanta that he is with the Eagles. Reid is a very good QB coach. Hell he is a very good coach. However, he has lost his way and the respect of his players.

Hey, I wouldn't necessarily classify myself as a hater, but I do love to watch the Falcons. Hey, they are the home town team. After years with Vick, I just don't see anything has really changed with him. He uses the same excuses in atlanta as he does in phily. Eventually the people of phily will see the pattern. Right, it is just fun watching Tebow make the NFL analyst seem well perplexed.