Presidential Debate McCain vs Obama Round 2

[creecher]

In what field? That matters. When I was younger working fast food, there was little to no recognition for hard work. But in other fields, managers recognize hard work and should reward you for them. If not, quit and work somewhere else for more. But if the State/federal government begins to run business, (i.e. recent bailout plan), that state can just say, "Anyone who is a cook will make $8 an hour, anyone who is a garbage man will make $6, anyone who is a dentist will make $10," regardless of how good you are as an individual. Where's the incentive to try harder?

Obviously this is a very simplified example, but the idea is the same.

Incentive can take many forms, other than the restrictive ones you have outlined previously i.e. capital gain. In a socialist communist state you may be threatened to provide you with the necessary incentive to get the work done, just as you may be in a capitalist state. Your incentive may be to earn $10 rather than $8 or $6, or not get paid, or to provide you with what that extra $2 can attain for you, apart from the satisfaction of doing a good job and being higher on the ladder than someone else, regardless of how good or bad you are as an individual or as a worker. Just as you are in a capitalist state. The regime, and it's political definition, is all that changes.

Obviously this is a very simplified example, but the idea is the same.

 

[LordAzrael]

Let me give you a very simplified example.

Lets say you are a very hard worker who never takes break and works your butt off. I'm a lazy piece of crap that shows up late, takes smoke breaks every 30 minutes, makes mistakes, and basically just cuase the other to work harder because of my presence.

You would expect to be paid more for your extra effort and good work. Under socialism, you would be paid exactly the same as me. The government/state determines what we should make. You aren't rewarded for you extra efforts.

So, after awhile, what do you do? You stop working as hard since you aren't being paid any extra for the extra effort. Everyone does. Performance goes down. No one is motivated to excel or exceed expectations. Work performance becomes stagnant because there is no incentive to work harder.

So yes, under socialism, everyone is treated equally and you won't have an upper, middle, lower class. Everyone will just be moved to the lower / lower-middle class.

Actually under socialism you probbaly would have been shot.

 

[Mesa]

I work for a school system. That's what they do already!

Yes, I know, my sister is a teacher. Good teachers get no recognition and bad teachers can't be fired short of anything but sexual abuse.

I'm not sure how much Bush's awful and unrealistic "No Child left behind" pipe dream has to do with it.

Many teachers are so frustrated right now and just leaving the profession.


So I feel for you, but would you want that same lack of motivation to carry over into the medical field, the airline field, defense field? Unmotivated employees building and flying our aircraft or performing your surgeries and writing your prescriptions.

I sure dont.

 

[The Ween]

Yes, I know, my sister is a teacher. Good teachers get no recognition and bad teachers can't be fired short of anything but sexual abuse.

I'm not sure how much Bush's awful and unrealistic "No Child left behind" pipe dream has to do with it.

Many teachers are so frustrated right now and just leaving the profession.


So I feel for you, but would you want that same lack of motivation to carry over into the medical field, the airline field, defense field? Unmotivated employees building and flying our aircraft or performing your surgeries and writing your prescriptions.

I sure dont.

I'm not a teacher, I'm an aide. Teachers here are paid very well for such a small school system and get alot of bonuses. If you can stand the administration, this is the place to teach.

Don't get me started on the "No Child Left Behind" nonsense. UGH!

I don't want a unmotivated person making my sub at Subway!

 

[DarkArtist81]

Dear God, this thread sucks...

And Scott... I thought you were DONE?? WTF are you doing here???

And Seriously, Hoodonit alluding that Obama is the worst person out there... that he is a hair away from being a Communist, and he will bring Socialism full swing into America... It's fear mongering at it's best.

FDR had similar ideas, and some of his plans were socialist in nature. But guess what, it worked. And it helped pull us out of the Great Depression.

But, I am not getting sucked into this vacuum... This thread sucks and will NEVER be civil in the end. I know, I've tried to keep prior threads that way.

 

[pixletwin]

I thought you were done too Josh.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I thought you were done too Josh.

I am... I just had to say that one last thing...

No more for me.. This crap is getting old.

 

[Starkiller]

Is your store unionized? I used to work for a supermarket and I was in a union. There's definately no incentive to work hard being in a union.

No, no union either.





But here's the thing I just want the economy to get better. I only see one man that can help us: Senator Barack Obama

 

[Mesa]

Dear God, this thread sucks...

And Scott... I thought you were DONE?? WTF are you doing here???

And Seriously, Hoodonit alluding that Obama is the worst person out there... that he is a hair away from being a Communist, and he will bring Socialism full swing into America... It's fear mongering at it's best.

FDR had similar ideas, and some of his plans were socialist in nature. But guess what, it worked. And it helped pull us out of the Great Depression.

But, I am not getting sucked into this vacuum... This thread sucks and will NEVER be civil in the end. I know, I've tried to keep prior threads that way.

The other threads are boring. Need a new PF or another limited grail released.


Edit: I don't know if FDR's "New Plan" had as much to do with getting us out of the great depression as WWI did.

 

[Mike1065]

Edit: I don't know if FDR's "New Plan" had as much to do with getting us out of the great depression as WWII did.

Exactly. If you read the data it was WWII that REALLY pulled us out of the economic troubles, FDRs programs didn't help very much in comparison.

 

[Mesa]

Exactly. If you read the data it was WWII that REALLY pulled us out of the economic troubles, FDRs programs didn't help very much in comparison.

agreed. I just looked it up last week from a debate with a co-worker. And it was WWI, not WWII as I said before correcting it.

A common goal to start up our factories again and build planes (I think) and boats and tanks and weapons to defeat our enemy.

Who'd we fight in WWI again? Was it Russia the first time mainly. And Germany in both WW's? Been awhile since history class.

 

[Bannister]

agreed. I just looked it up last week from a debate with a co-worker. And it was WWI, not WWII as I said before correcting it.

A common goal to start up our factories again and build planes (I think) and boats and tanks and weapons to defeat our enemy.

Who'd we fight in WWI again? Was it Russia the first time mainly. And Germany in both WW's? Been awhile since history class.

Dude we fought The World, obviously.

 

[hoodonit00]

"Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth into a small section of society who control capital, and creates an unequal society."

Socialists belief*

Thus, the rich are running the country. And when they aren't hurting no one is, right?

No. Socialist believe in taking from the middle class and the rich and giving to the poor so that they can sit on their lazy ***** and have more babies and get more welfare. Conservatist believe that you are responsible for yourself, you do not take handouts unless it's an emergency and that is just until you get back on your feet. Obama is already going to tax the rich higher, the middle class are the ones who will feel the effects in higher priced goods, and the poor will be sucking on the teat of the govt. thanks to welfare. That's what his anti-poverty act is about also, take more money from the rich US and distribute it to the poorer nations in the world, like we already don't give out billions of dollars in aid as it is.

 

[hoodonit00]

And Seriously, Hoodonit alluding that Obama is the worst person out there... that he is a hair away from being a Communist, and he will bring Socialism full swing into America... It's fear mongering at it's best.

ANd this is your opinion right? I'll stick with my opinion about him. If you want to get all googley eyed over him that sure is your right, but don't expect everyone to be blinded by his bull^^^^.

 

[hoodonit00]

No, no union either.





But here's the thing I just want the economy to get better. I only see one man that can help us: Senator Barack Obama

Explain to me what is going to happen to all the big corporations when they start paying millions more in taxes, give me an honest answer.

 

[RoboDad]

Explain to me what is going to happen to all the big corporations when they start paying millions more in taxes, give me an honest answer.

Obviously, they will just pay the taxes out of the huge piles o' cash they have in their vaults (the ones where Scrooge McDuck swims for recreation). That is, after all, the common (mis)conception of corporations.

It never seems to occur to anyone that they will have to adjust for their increased tax burden by

A) Decreasing their workforce (or decreasing the rate of increase in the size of their workforce)

B) Decreasing the compensation of their workforce (or decreasing the frequency and/or amount of pay increases they offer)

and/or

C) Decreasing the price/quality ratio of the goods and/or services they sell, either by reducing quality, increasing prices, or some measure of both

No, they'll just dip in their vaults.

 

[CelticPredator]

ANd this is your opinion right? I'll stick with my opinion about him. If you want to get all googley eyed over him that sure is your right, but don't expect everyone to be blinded by his bull^^^^.

McCain is a liar! He will destroy America!
































(see! I can post offensive BS too.....)

 

[DarkArtist81]

agreed. I just looked it up last week from a debate with a co-worker. And it was WWI, not WWII as I said before correcting it.

A common goal to start up our factories again and build planes (I think) and boats and tanks and weapons to defeat our enemy.

Who'd we fight in WWI again? Was it Russia the first time mainly. And Germany in both WW's? Been awhile since history class.

Last word... It was WWII. Not the first.

Learning!

It was helping though, prior to the war.

Not going to give Hoodonit a response... done with these threads, thank you very much.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Obviously, they will just pay the taxes out of the huge piles o' cash they have in their vaults (the ones where Scrooge McDuck swims for recreation). That is, after all, the common (mis)conception of corporations.

It never seems to occur to anyone that they will have to adjust for their increased tax burden by

A) Decreasing their workforce (or decreasing the rate of increase in the size of their workforce)

B) Decreasing the compensation of their workforce (or decreasing the frequency and/or amount of pay increases they offer)

and/or

C) Decreasing the price/quality ratio of the goods and/or services they sell, either by reducing quality, increasing prices, or some measure of both

No, they'll just dip in their vaults.

Or they could reduce the compensation paid to their CEO's who make inordinate amounts compared to all the other employees.

 

[Bannister]

Or they could reduce the compensation paid to their CEO's who make inordinate amounts compared to all the other employees.