R.I.P. Charlie Hebdo

[devilof76]

He's missing out on the brilliance of my Walking Dead insights.

 

[Getoninja]

The cartoonists are 'free' to lampoon what they want, but the question is, is it worth getting shot in the face and missing out on (say) 30 years with your family and loved ones? IMO, nope. These guys haven't changed any minds, they're basically preaching to the converted, so why die for it? Seems nihilistic.

On October 9th of 2012, Malala Yousafzai was shot in the face while getting on a school bus in Pakistan. Pryor to the incident she was threaten in newpapers and on facebook. The reason, for years she was advocate for education and for women, posting in blogs and family run schools in Pakistan where the local Taliban banned girls from going to school.
The point is, even though she didn't draw any cartoon, she was a advocate for education and for women in her region and did not give up in her cause even been threaten before being shot in the face.
Not to mention the recent school shooting in Pakistan on Dec 2014 where about 126people, most being children, were killed by the Taliban.

But one could say, "is it worth getting shot in the face and missing out on (say) 60 years with your family and loved ones? IMO, nope. These guys haven't changed any minds, they're basically preaching to the converted, so why die for it? Seems nihilistic"


Education and cartoons insulting Islam are deadly

 

[Invictus Sol]

You might ask the same question about anyone who makes a sacrifice to uphold and protect the values of their societies. There is a profound difference between nihilism and idealism.

What about vulgar cartoons designed to offend is idealistic, in your view? Provocation for provocation's sake (and with death as a possible consequence, given the sociopaths they're targeting) is nihilistic. I don't find anything they've done idealistic. If I walk around in a "**** Islam" t-shirt, does that make me the same as a freedom rider?

On October 9th of 2012, Malala Yousafzai was shot in the face while getting on a school bus in Pakistan. Pryor to the incident she was threaten in newpapers and on facebook. The reason, for years she was advocate for education and for women, posting in blogs and family run schools in Pakistan where the local Taliban banned girls from going to school. The point is, even though she didn't draw any cartoon, she was a advocate for education and for women in her region and did not give up in her cause even been threaten before being shot in the face.

Ms. Yousafzai is the polar opposite of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, IMO. She no doubt has made a difference and has inspired others to live their lives differently. That's real courageousness and idealism.

 

[The Ween]

On October 9th of 2012, Malala Yousafzai was shot in the face while getting on a school bus in Pakistan. Pryor to the incident she was threaten in newpapers and on facebook. The reason, for years she was advocate for education and for women, posting in blogs and family run schools in Pakistan where the local Taliban banned girls from going to school.
The point is, even though she didn't draw any cartoon, she was a advocate for education and for women in her region and did not give up in her cause even been threaten before being shot in the face.
Not to mention the recent school shooting in Pakistan on Dec 2014 where about 126people, most being children, were killed by the Taliban.

But one could say, "is it worth getting shot in the face and missing out on (say) 60 years with your family and loved ones? IMO, nope. These guys haven't changed any minds, they're basically preaching to the converted, so why die for it? Seems nihilistic"


Education and cartoons insulting Islam are deadly

Education isn't insulting Islam. Radical Islam is insulted by it.

People have died for their causes since the dawn of time. And in many, many ways, we've benefited from it.

 

[cilantropants]

The thread title, authored immediately after the event, was an economical way of expressing an epitaph for the nearly two dozen individuals who were slain during the attack on the Charlie Hebdo offices. I suppose I could have listed them all by name, and pointed out that the victims were not all members of the paper's staff, but that would go against my natural inclination to common sense.

No need to feel defensive and get over-explanatory. I was just wondering, because a lot of people thought Charlie Hebdo was a person when they first heard.

By "both sides" I mean the psycho killers and the rest of us, the not-insane rest of the world. I just fear we're eventually going to allow ourselves to cross some lines we can't come back from. Then what do we have?

 

[DiFabio]

On October 9th of 2012, Malala Yousafzai was shot in the face while getting on a school bus in Pakistan. Pryor to the incident she was threaten in newpapers and on facebook. The reason, for years she was advocate for education and for women, posting in blogs and family run schools in Pakistan where the local Taliban banned girls from going to school.
The point is, even though she didn't draw any cartoon, she was a advocate for education and for women in her region and did not give up in her cause even been threaten before being shot in the face.
Not to mention the recent school shooting in Pakistan on Dec 2014 where about 126people, most being children, were killed by the Taliban.

But one could say, "is it worth getting shot in the face and missing out on (say) 60 years with your family and loved ones? IMO, nope. These guys haven't changed any minds, they're basically preaching to the converted, so why die for it? Seems nihilistic"


Education and cartoons insulting Islam are deadly

Apples and oranges. What she did was noble and was actually "worth" dying over. I actually think her story is much more sad.


Education for children > crude cartoons

 

[Lejuan]

What about vulgar cartoons designed to offend is idealistic, in your view? Provocation for provocation's sake (and with death as a possible consequence, given the sociopaths they're targeting) is nihilistic. I don't find anything they've done idealistic. If I walk around in a "**** Islam" t-shirt, does that make me the same as a freedom rider?

Ms. Yousafzai is the polar opposite of the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists, IMO. She no doubt has made a difference and has inspired others to live their lives differently. That's real courageousness and idealism.

Free speech is an ideal. You either support free speech or you don't. I do not support outsourcing our ideals to those who do not share our agreed values and initiate violence in order to suppress behaviours they don't like. It is a simple principle which is undermined by framing those who engage in commentary as 'provocateurs'. Ms Yousafzai and satirists are 'polar opposites'? Absolutely not. They are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Free speech is an ideal. You either support free speech or you don't. I do not support outsourcing our ideals to those who do not share our agreed values and initiate violence in order to suppress behaviours they don't like. It is a simple principle which is undermined by framing those who engage in commentary as 'provocateurs'. Ms Yousafzai and satirists are 'polar opposites'? Absolutely not. They are two sides of the same coin.

Thanks for the non-answer, Lejuan. Even the co-founder of the magazine described the editor as a fool, but of course, you know best!

Education for children > crude cartoons

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Lejuan]

Thanks for the non-answer, Lejuan. Even the co-founder of the magazine described the editor as a fool, but of course, you know best!

I understand what it's like to live in a society where there is no free speech, and I know how easily freedoms are lost and sacrificed.

 

[devilof76]

It could easily be argued that Yousafzai's actions were less effective than the cartoonists. Had she died, we would never have heard from her again. You don't see the thousands of women who did not survive their persecutors receiving Nobel prizes and being shown off like pets by the intellectual establishment who has made their names by occasionally taking their hands out from under their ***** to wring them dramatically whenever the news points towards the Middle East. In a sense, all she did was give the feminists and multiculturalists something to pat themselves on the back about in an arena where they deserve credit for little more than looking the other way.

By "both sides" I mean the psycho killers and the rest of us, the not-insane rest of the world. I just fear we're eventually going to allow ourselves to cross some lines we can't come back from. Then what do we have?

We'd have more dead Islamists than Westerners, is what. The West could stand to learn a thing or two from its enemies.

 

[devilof76]

It is a simple principle which is undermined by framing those who engage in commentary as 'provocateurs'.

In essence, it's not much different than shooting them in the head.

 

[Lejuan]

So long as it's someone else's head I guess that's ok.

 

[devilof76]

 

[Lejuan]

So long as it's someone else's daughter I guess that's ok.

 

[devilof76]

 

[hoodonit00]

Some of you in this thread need to wake up and realize what the world is against here. It's not as simple as don't insult our prophet. The world is dealing with a radical sect of an other wise peaceful religion. Their goal is not to get along peacefully with everyone. Their goal is to convert you to their religion and if you don't they want you dead. It's in their own teachings. Even people of Islam are not safe as they view moderates as not radical enough. If your daughter has premarital sex and you kill her because she dishonored the family you might be a redne, err a radical Muslim.

 

[Solidus]

Some of you in this thread need to wake up and realize what the world is against here. It's not as simple as don't insult our prophet. The world is dealing with a radical sect of an other wise peaceful religion. Their goal is not to get along peacefully with everyone. Their goal is to convert you to their religion and if you don't they want you dead. It's in their own teachings. Even people of Islam are not safe as they view moderates as not radical enough. If your daughter has premarital sex and you kill her because she dishonored the family you might be a redne, err a radical Muslim.

Personally, I've always questioned the "peacefulness" of the religion, especially since there are millions of Muslims, who, I'd assume, have to distance themselves from the more extreme views their faith to classify themselves as "moderates". So, in that sense, if someone isn't a "moderate", does that put them in the same lines of the extremism as those in Isis?

On another note, I'm not looking to start anything, get under anyone's skin, or debate. It's just a general curiosity that I have, and maybe someone can be kind enough to answer it for me.

 

[a-dev]

Low-life scum. Should I even ask what her 'crime' was.

 

[Solidus]

I think that was from a movie .

 

[devilof76]

Sure makes the point though, doesn't it?