Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "Driver"

[siquisiri]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

The whole Company Fig-Custom Fig debate has always interested me.
HT has produced figs that are without a doubt amazing for a mass produced company. (ie: The Godfather, Leonidas, etc..)
BUT, with figs put out by RM, Serang, V Morning, iminime (and theyre more of a small production company), etc.. get the big bucks for various reasons: Low production, Quality clothing and gear, and of course character uniqueness.
Levit05 makes a great observation. The value of these figs has a lot to do with the notion that peeps believe none of the big companies will produced these characters. But take in mind that for a very long time no one though that expensive custom figs like the kojun Carlito, and Rainmans Chaplins (both versions) would ever be eclipsed, but now that some of the bigger manufacturers have released these figs, they not only look better, but you can get the, for a fraction of a cost.
Although not probable, because they focus on large popular themed figs, What would be the impact on the value of RM figures if HT released Bill, Anton, Doc, Wonka, etc.....???
HT could probably have an exclusive line and sell theirs for $600 and it would still be cheaper that RM.

 

[Bullet]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

This is true. But Kato's suits cost $600 by themselves. SIX HUNDRED DOLLARS. That's 1.5 Rainman H&C sets.

Also, Hot Toys may not tailor to the level of Kato but they are producing about 4000 units to 1 ratio of outfits.

That's true and that is why they cannot fairly be compared . I like HT same as I like many other 1/6th companies but I personally prefer the attention to detail you receive with lower run hand made customs. It's my personal preference and no amount of 'but look at thor and loki' (whose best features aren't tailored there actually injection moulded in PVC in HT owned factories so there a completely separate entity) will change my mind. Just as I'm sure no amount of me saying the attention to detail and care that come with customs will change your mind or many others for that matter when it comes to this particular discussion .

 

[Levit05]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

all i'm gonna say is...i'm getting the RM clothing set for sure...and will wait for a better sculpt to come...which is...that will be more up to the standards i expect a 1500 custom figure to be...at a much MUCH lower price point...so yes...bring on the august release date please...

 

[Bullet]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

all i'm gonna say is...i'm getting the RM clothing set for sure...and will wait for a better sculpt to come...which is...that will be more up to the standards i expect a 1500 custom figure to be...at a much MUCH lower price point...so yes...bring on the august release date please...

Just outta interest to which other sculpt are you referring? VM?

 

[Levit05]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

That's true and that is why they cannot fairly be compared . I like HT same as I like many other 1/6th companies but I personally prefer the attention to detail you receive with lower run hand made customs. It's my personal preference and no amount of 'but look at thor and loki' (whose best features aren't tailored there actually injection moulded in PVC in HT owned factories so there a completely separate entity) will change my mind. Just as I'm sure no amount of me saying the attention to detail and care that come with customs will change your mind or many others for that matter when it comes to this particular discussion .

some of the armor is...but the stitching that puts some of the intricate clothing parts are not sewn on by machines...they are also done by hand....


and just to highlight another point of a major company reaching back and acknowledging the custom community...think the HT DX 11 Joker....they got Kato to do the cut outs for all the clothing on him...if thats not recognizing and trying to up their realistic niche market to a custom level from the biggest 1/6 retailer...then i don't know what to say...I'm not one of the owners of the original Kato joker outfits because it just seemed ridiculous to pay for that much for a 1/6 outfit (atleast to me it did)...glad i waited tho...the DX 11 suit is by far the best (regular clothed) HT figure by far....and as i remember then...the argument many had back then was that they wanted it to be exclusive and wanted COAs to be made so that they could say it was a "kato" suit...which is ridiculous....because at the end of the day...someone is taking advantage of someone else's bravado and figure macho-ism and making a nice buck out of it....lol

 

[Levit05]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

Just outta interest to which other sculpt are you referring? VM?

i actually forgot that scott was making bickle also...if he offers his smirking sculpt, i will gladly buy it...but other things are brewing to bring a more accurate bickle to life...with the clothing sets and the sculpt...the only part that will need to be addressed is the body itself...other then that...RM will not really be used in my Bickle display...just being honest here...the man will still get my money for the clothing set but i won't be paying the 1500+ to have a figure i will feel is not complete or finished everytime i look at it...

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

For every awesome figure HT release there's one that's pretty poor, Indiana Jones or Aldo Raine anyone (purely talking about sculpts here).

I agree with most of your post Bullet, but man. . .I consider the Raine sculpt to be incredibly solid. Best Pitt in 1/6 I've seen by a mile. Now if you want to say Landa was a miss, I won't argue.

out of the last 150 mms figures they nailed it 95 percent of the time.

There figures are of better quality nearly 99 percent of the time compared to customs, most customs not all but most are using knock off truetypes, hot toys has stuff is professionally manufactured, licensed and beautifully packaged and is of just about the highest quality out there.

Yeah. . .I'm a big Hot Toys fan/collector, but you are demonstrating two things here: 1) you and I judge likenesses very differently. Like Pop says, HT is extremely hit and miss in that department--some are amazing, many are adequate, and far too many are way off the mark. Hell, they've had about 15 tries at Tony Stark and still haven't gotten it right. and 2) you obviously have never had a truly high quality custom figure to judge against them. I do think people sometimes overstate custom quality vis-a-vis Hot Toys, because Hot Toys is extremely good here, and is not easy to "blow away" or whatever. But when you're talking Rainman, his stuff easily matches anything HT puts out, if not beats it.

Of course, you get much more variation with customs, because there are all kinds of custom figure producers out there, but only one Hot Toys.

I am under the impression it's different. There is a clear frowning expression going on here.

If you take a look at the Mohawk sculpt. The frown definitely appears different. I think we might be getting two different sculpts/expression.

To me, differences look like it could just be angle, lighting, and paint work. Mouths seem precisely the same. Only really notable difference seems to be the more furrowed brow of the haired sculpt, but there's a bright flash-type light on the painted sculpt there that could be obscuring it. I don't expect different facial sculpts (but I hope he does!).

 

[Bullet]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

I agree with most of your post Bullet, but man. . .I consider the Raine sculpt to be incredibly solid. Best Pitt in 1/6 I've seen by a mile. Now if you want to say Landa was a miss, I won't argue.

It's a solid Pitt likeness it's not a solid Aldo likeness if that makes sense. It's missing that massive chin/gurn expression a key element to the character in my opinion. Apparently it was Pitt himself that wouldn't sign off on that look but for me as a result the sculpt missed completely.

 

[PopCultKid]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

100% agree HT are great don't get me wrong but there miles away from being perfect. Each to there own but like many others on this side of the board I prefer custom works. More personal, more detailed, higher quality. I genuinely think The Skull is getting confused between limited art figures and kit bashes with some of his descriptions...

I was thinking the same

Rainman stated on fb he intends to make the Randolph's slightly smaller to make them more screen accurate. I see no reason why the king king patch shouldn't be an easy fix.

As for the sculpt I personally love it the way it is but if others think it can be improved on then great all for that

I hope he doesn't make them too much smaller. They're supposed to be a little big. I'd even say they're good where they are

The sculpt is pretty solid in general. Even though they're the same sculpt for some reason I see more De Niro with the hair piece on.

Everything seems to be shaping up really well and I'm still pumped for this. The only changes that I would suggest would be to rework the nose on the sculpt a bit, smaller irises with the paint app, both patches shown can be changed for accuracy.

Aside from that I'm still wondering about some of the question marks. Are we getting the .44 & snub nose in the FS and the Escort with slider in the DX? What's the exact count of outfit pieces? Two full outfits or just the additional bomber & shirt?

I didn't want to bring it up earlier to rock the boat buuuut..... the jeans are different between the Mohawk and lonely man looks. Mohawk are a darker wash and lonely man's are lighter.

The whole Company Fig-Custom Fig debate has always interested me.
HT has produced figs that are without a doubt amazing for a mass produced company. (ie: The Godfather, Leonidas, etc..)
BUT, with figs put out by RM, Serang, V Morning, iminime (and theyre more of a small production company), etc.. get the big bucks for various reasons: Low production, Quality clothing and gear, and of course character uniqueness.
Levit05 makes a great observation. The value of these figs has a lot to do with the notion that peeps believe none of the big companies will produced these characters. But take in mind that for a very long time no one though that expensive custom figs like the kojun Carlito, and Rainmans Chaplins (both versions) would ever be eclipsed, but now that some of the bigger manufacturers have released these figs, they not only look better, but you can get the, for a fraction of a cost.
Although not probable, because they focus on large popular themed figs, What would be the impact on the value of RM figures if HT released Bill, Anton, Doc, Wonka, etc.....???
HT could probably have an exclusive line and sell theirs for $600 and it would still be cheaper that RM.

The risk that a big co. may produce a character that you spent big custom $$$ on is always a possibility; mostly for the widely popular properties as you said. You see people dumping their Crows now, we've seen people dumping their Marty's just at the announcement of HT acquiring the license (I think that was a bit of a premature dump IMO) and we'll see people dumping their Walking Dead stuff once a big co. steps up with a sexy product line.

I think that most cult classic characters and niche stuff will be safe but when you have little guys like BW doing Carlito, it does make you think. Then again I think Carlito coming to life has more to do with the fact that the license was already in place with Universal. I think that for the most part we'll continue to see these type of cult characters come from the Brothers Production types, and IMO that's not up to speed with the high end customs we have access to. And even when/if the big co. produce a fig there's no guarantee that it will trump your custom. I think that Iminime's Gordon sculpt BURIES HT's. Kato's handmade coat blows away that horse s__t that we got in the DX11. I have a gut feeling that WGP's Penguin will be head and shoulders better than what HT will give us; I may be wrong but time will tell on that one. Most of Kato's bits to his Indy outfit is superior to what you get in the HT set; mfshers accessories are upgrades from the HT ones too..... the list goes on.....

And to those out there who don't get the price of customs, I'll give you a couple thing to chew on without going too deep into it and getting too involved.

1) Denny has mentioned that they can't get custom fabric or patterns made for anything less than 1000 yards. Think about that, think of all the other aspects that make up a full set, and then look at the big picture. If you are mass producing, you can get things made inexpensively... if you own the factories, you get things done dirt cheap.

2) Sideshow as a wholesaler offers their wholesale accounts a 35% (now 30%; that's another story) discount off of retail price. That means that SS can sell a fig that retails for $200 to one of their wholesalers for $130 and still make $$$. So what's SS's cost? Let's say $100. That means that HT can sell SS a fig for $100 (+/-) and still make $$$ AFTER FEIGHTING THEM TO THE STATES.

So what does it cost HT to produce a full set that retails for $200? Sounds to me that they can probably crank out 3 full sets for the price that Rainman has to pay Yunsil for 1 outfit set.......

As others mentioned the downside to customs/upside to mass producers is the intricacy of outfit that each is able to achieve. It would be incredibly cost prohibitive for a customizer to make an outfit like Hawkeye’s or Cap’s, forget about Maximus, Loki, Thor…..

Still love my cult classics…. love my customs…..

 

[The Skull]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

Yeah. . .I'm a big Hot Toys fan/collector, but you are demonstrating two things here: 1) you and I judge likenesses very differently. Like Pop says, HT is extremely hit and miss in that department--some are amazing, many are adequate, and far too many are way off the mark. Hell, they've had about 15 tries at Tony Stark and still haven't gotten it right. and 2) you obviously have never had a truly high quality custom figure to judge against them. I do think people sometimes overstate custom quality vis-a-vis Hot Toys, because Hot Toys is extremely good here, and is not easy to "blow away" or whatever. But when you're talking Rainman, his stuff easily matches anything HT puts out, if not beats it.

Of course, you get much more variation with customs, because there are all kinds of custom figure producers out there, but only one Hot Toys.


To me, differences look like it could just be angle, lighting, and paint work. Mouths seem precisely the same. Only really notable difference seems to be the more furrowed brow of the haired sculpt, but there's a bright flash-type light on the painted sculpt there that could be obscuring it. I don't expect different facial sculpts (but I hope he does!) .

Ok so I guess we do, cause you state that rainmans stuff matches or blows away hot toys stuff, if this figure is what your referring to I'm afraid you have already lost your case. Theres tons of hot toys that blow this out of the water and at a fraction of the cost, I point to the hulk, Robocop, barney ross, technoir terminator 1, godfather, blade, crow, red skull, reeves superman, ironmonger and on and on.

Not to say they haven't put out a few duds cause they have, indy jones is the most notable but as for aldo raine, we can agree that's a great likeness to pitt, maybe not the best expression for aldo raine but its pitt 100%.

I admit I don't have any rainman pieces to compare in hand, you got me there, and if folks want to believe custom stuff is some how a superior product that's cool, I can't or wouldn't force them to see things as I do, However it seems like some need to justify the price of custom figures by saying there actually better than hot toys and other high end collectible figures when its actually the low runs and fact theres no where else to get these specialty figures that drive the price.

 

[ricardobsn]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

I like Rainman style, the prob imo is for the price he charges the expectations are even higher.
I like a lot custom figures, the main reason is the characters i like most, ht and other companies most of time dont release it.
But try to show one rainman figure to anyone neutral ( your mother for ex) ,and one ht one (anyone 3 years ago to now, and ask wich one is better and wich one looks more expensive.

 

[ricardobsn]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

The pros of rainman are the acessories and cloths

 

[Levit05]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

he doesn't make the clothes....someone else does...he only makes accessories and headsculpt...the cost of the clothes are then passed on to us as part of the overall price...if thats not the case...i want someone on here to tell me why a painted head with some guns and a pretty box would cost me 1000+...?...lol

 

[meth head]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

That is the case. He has a tailor on board.

 

[Levit05]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

lol...i'm calm...just trying to make sense of the cost benefit analysis RM uses for pricing...time...material...friendly chatter...thats all...i already stated i'm buying...so you should not have a problem with me...i'm supporting somebody....

 

[ricardobsn]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

he doesn't make the clothes....someone else does...he only makes accessories and headsculpt...the cost of the clothes are then passed on to us as part of the overall price...if thats not the case...i want someone on here to tell me why a painted head with some guns and a pretty box would cost me 1000+...?...lol

I know he doesnt make the clothes, when i sad that i mean the quality of it in the final product.
I see your point, and also see who like rainman too, each one has your taste

 

[meth head]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

lol...i'm calm...just trying to make sense of the cost benefit analysis RM uses for pricing...time...material...friendly chatter...thats all...i already stated i'm buying...so you should not have a problem with me...i'm supporting somebody....

To be honest he doesn't need to justify the price to you, me or anybody else. It is what it is. You either accept it and buy it or move on. He does not have to give you a break down of his costs and then show you his profit margin.

 

[Levit05]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

ok...i never asked for it...like i said...just chatter....i'm supporting...tell me again why i can't say it again..? or is it because you don't want to read any of this...per your own statement..."It is what it is. You either accept it and move on"

i already stated i'm buying...and i'm sure you will too...so whats the problem?...

 

[meth head]

Re: Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

ok...i never asked for it...like i said...just chatter....i'm supporting...tell me again why i can't say it again..? or is it because you don't want to read any of this...per your own statement..."It is what it is. You either accept it and move on"

i already stated i'm buying...and i'm sure you will too...so whats the problem?...

No problem. You just seemed narked that you might be getting ripped off somehow.

 

[Wake]

Rainman Artwork 2013 NYC Cabbie "God's Lonely Man"

It's funny really.... I was thinking about what's justifiable cost. The dioramas I make are so intricate and require so much work (and not just sitting at a workbench with magnifying lenses painting tiny eyes--I'm talking sweat through your clothes in mid afternoon sun while I cover my body in MDF sawdust cutting wood) that I estimate the probably cost about $1500-$2000 to make. They are huge. The breaking bad diorama I'm working on currently is 37" wide and 22" deep and 22" tall. To put that into perspective I could stack 2.5 hot toys tumblers in that space. Point is this... Someone asked me recently what it would cost to produce a diorama for them. I quoted them a reasonable price. I'd be making two. One for myself one for the person. So I'd save on materials and time (being as how I could just double up on things and do steps for both dios simultaneously.) the person was surprised at the price. Granted I quoted 1k-1200. Not the 1500-2000 range. They weren't insulted. Nor did they balk. In fact they complimented the work. Said it looked worth it. They'd have to think about it.

Finally I'm arriving at my message... It's interesting that collectors will readily spend $1200 (or $900 or whatever) on a single action figure that's one if 30 or 40 identical pieces then a one of a kind (or two of a kind) handmade diorama piece that could hold ten figures and immediately grasp the attention of anyone who walked in the room. What it tells me is either (a) the character is so dear and near to the collectors heart he doesn't mind the expense (Like Teddy who's had the Bickle avatar for as long as I can remember) or (b) rain mans name recognition does more for the viability of the product then many are willing to admit. (There is a third possibility too. Which is lack of space)

After all hot toys and enterbay and heck Iminime produce figures of amazing quality that don't fetch those prices.

PS. This isn't to imply that there isn't a market for my dioramas because I think given the right project many would love to own such a attention commanding piece. But 50-60 like in most rainman runs? No way. (Nor would I be able to churn that out. Lol)