Rainman's Fight Club sculpts recasted...

[dchung]

Here's another way to look at this situation:

Laws are in place to decide, in the event of a dispute, who is entitled to what.

Rainman made a sculpt of someone, and that someone has not complained. We all know that if that person were to complain, he would prevail and Rainman would owe him money. In some instances, when a celeb finds out about such a sculpt, they are actually just too flattered to file a complaint or to seek damages or restitution, though they could. Still, as a customizer/sculptor myself, I've tried to track down license rights for various celebrities/movie characters, have told them what I intend to do, have offered to negotiate an arrangement, and have been flat-out ignored (as not worth the time of dealing with I suppose)...

ON THE BIG OTHER _____KIN' HAND, if the original artist of a sculpt is asking you not to sell copies of his work, is contacting you and you are ignoring him, and you post pictures of his work without making any kind of attempt to acknowledge or attribute the work to him, possibly using these pictures to solicit direct offers so that you can profit from the sale of recasts of said artist's work, and are not making any attempt to share in said profits, and further hide your efforts behind private/password protected online sites... then you are a scumbag.

 

[MisterToyNYC]

Here's another way to look at this situation:

Laws are in place to decide, in the event of a dispute, who is entitled to what.

Rainman made a sculpt of someone, and that someone has not complained. We all know that if that person were to complain, he would prevail and Rainman would owe him money. In some instances, when a celeb finds out about such a sculpt, they are actually just too flattered to file a complaint or to seek damages or restitution, though they could. Still, as a customizer/sculptor myself, I've tried to track down license rights for various celebrities/movie characters, have told them what I intend to do, have offered to negotiate an arrangement, and have been flat-out ignored (as not worth the time of dealing with I suppose)...

ON THE BIG OTHER _____KIN' HAND, if the original artist of a sculpt is asking you not to sell copies of his work, is contacting you and you are ignoring him, and you post pictures of his work without making any kind of attempt to acknowledge or attribute the work to him, possibly using these pictures to solicit direct offers so that you can profit from the sale of recasts of said artist's work, and are not making any attempt to share in said profits, and further hide your efforts behind private/password protected online sites... then you are a scumbag.

Well said. I think that about sums it up.

Eric

 

[cokebabies]

Not really any more ridiculous than stating a company would NEVER steal a sculpt, then deleting a thread from another company with no more than accusations.

But this isn't the first time HP has recasted - see the Tommy Lee Jones sculpt. So while the Fight Club heads aren't confirmed, they have enough of a shady history to make them give up benefit of the doubt.

And like Dave said, the thread isn't deleted. If HP felt like replying to Dave, they could. But they haven't - I wonder why that is.

 

[toyadventurer]

If HP felt like replying to Dave, they could. But they haven't - I wonder why that is.

It has been obvious from Headplays first post that there is a definite language barrier.

 

[Cheungkinmen]

It has been obvious from Headplays first post that there is a definite language barrier.

They did spoke and defended themselves about the VIVA Tommy Lee Jones sculpt. Even then it didn't work because it was an obvious recast.

 

[Ironman1188]

Here's another way to look at this situation:

Laws are in place to decide, in the event of a dispute, who is entitled to what.

Rainman made a sculpt of someone, and that someone has not complained. We all know that if that person were to complain, he would prevail and Rainman would owe him money. In some instances, when a celeb finds out about such a sculpt, they are actually just too flattered to file a complaint or to seek damages or restitution, though they could. Still, as a customizer/sculptor myself, I've tried to track down license rights for various celebrities/movie characters, have told them what I intend to do, have offered to negotiate an arrangement, and have been flat-out ignored (as not worth the time of dealing with I suppose)...

ON THE BIG OTHER _____KIN' HAND, if the original artist of a sculpt is asking you not to sell copies of his work, is contacting you and you are ignoring him, and you post pictures of his work without making any kind of attempt to acknowledge or attribute the work to him, possibly using these pictures to solicit direct offers so that you can profit from the sale of recasts of said artist's work, and are not making any attempt to share in said profits, and further hide your efforts behind private/password protected online sites... then you are a scumbag.

You admit that its all only possible but then condemn them as scumbags.

But this isn't the first time HP has recasted - see the Tommy Lee Jones sculpt. So while the Fight Club heads aren't confirmed, they have enough of a shady history to make them give up benefit of the doubt.

And like Dave said, the thread isn't deleted. If HP felt like replying to Dave, they could. But they haven't - I wonder why that is.

Where is this TLJ sculpt? I can't access the old Headplay thread and get a dead link when I attempted. If its not deleted, where is it.
Where did Dave contact them?

It has been obvious from Headplays first post that there is a definite language barrier.

 

[SwedishHeat]

Here's another way to look at this situation:

What do you think about sculpting a head, getting a cease and desist, but then saying "____ you" to the licensor and selling the head anyway??

 

[yruh8n]

What do you think about sculpting a head, getting a cease and desist, but then saying "____ you" to the licensor and selling the head anyway??

As stated in another thread this is where people start courting trouble. If you have thier attention and they tell you to stop, walk away. Live to fight another day. Sorry to hear this happened, but it should have been obvious that it would. Trying to pass unlicensed product as limited edition collectibles is an open invitation to recasters. There are enough people out there with little regard for the sculptor's wishes that will buy the head any way they can get it. I totally disagree with this practice but is the primary reason recast exist in the first palce. That and recast can often be had for less than the going rate on the legitiment article.

 

[Doctor Who]

But this isn't the first time HP has recasted - see the Tommy Lee Jones sculpt. So while the Fight Club heads aren't confirmed, they have enough of a shady history to make them give up benefit of the doubt.

And like Dave said, the thread isn't deleted. If HP felt like replying to Dave, they could. But they haven't - I wonder why that is.

Plus the licenced heads of HT's Christian Bale and Sweeney Todd.

In my eyes, what HP does, might be comparable to going to a website like DeviantArt, take a random piece of fanart and sell prints for your own profit, without the artist permission.

I've had that happen twice, which is why I quit using DeviantArt.

 

[Lejuan]

ON THE BIG OTHER _____KIN' HAND, if the original artist of a sculpt is asking you not to sell copies of his work, is contacting you and you are ignoring him, and you post pictures of his work without making any kind of attempt to acknowledge or attribute the work to him, possibly using these pictures to solicit direct offers so that you can profit from the sale of recasts of said artist's work, and are not making any attempt to share in said profits, and further hide your efforts behind private/password protected online sites... then you are a scumbag.

You admit that its all only possible but then condemn them as scumbags.

The 'possibly' was only paired with the use of pictures and does not frame the entire post.

 

[thenammagazine]

And i bet all you guys never downloaded a music album or a game from the internetz that you dont own either? i mean whats the difference, if its out there it is going to be copied, duplicated and pirated, who gives a flying f ...

So other than being the product of failed parenting and having a serious self-entitlement complex, how does that make it right?

 

[dchung]

You admit that its all only possible but then condemn them as scumbags.

The "possible" part isn't what makes them scumbags. The rest of it does. The "possible" part would only make them bigger scumbags.

On another note, are you mad because you misinterpreted my response to your other post?

 

[dchung]

What do you think about sculpting a head, getting a cease and desist, but then saying "____ you" to the licensor and selling the head anyway??

If you get a cease and desist, and do not... then you deserve whatever you get. And unfortunately, the law will not be on your side. Plus, you're a scumbag for not respecting the wishes of the license holder.

Look, this isn't rocket science, people. Respect the wishes of the license holder if they've made their wishes known. Fact is, not everyone who is the victim of a crime chooses to press charges. As we've seen in many instances, many people/celebs are actually flattered when their likeness is rendered in sixthscale. The law is there to protect them if they choose to invoke it. As for recasters, they are also stealing someone's work. If that someone doesn't have a problem with it, then no harm no foul. But if that someone does have a problem with it, and they've written to tell you so, but you are ignoring them, then, yeah, you're kind of a ____.

 

[Ironman1188]

The "possible" part isn't what makes them scumbags. The rest of it does. The "possible" part would only make them bigger scumbags.

On another note, are you mad because you misinterpreted my response to your other post?

Not mad about anything. Just think the wrong decisions were made. TLJ sculpt aside, as I don't recall it, I don't see where HP said they were selling these Pitt/Norton sculpts. I also see differences between the two versions. That being said, and taking into consideration that I can't sculpt, the same person being sculpted should look similar in varying sculpts because its the same person. And before it gets asked, if I could sculpt, and people thought them good enough to want one, I would make them affordable and not limited.
Both are things that also lead to recasts.

 

[Raymond F.]

Not mad about anything. Just think the wrong decisions were made. TLJ sculpt aside, as I don't recall it, I don't see where HP said they were selling these Pitt/Norton sculpts. I also see differences between the two versions. That being said, and taking into consideration that I can't sculpt, the same person being sculpted should look similar in varying sculpts because its the same person. And before it gets asked, if I could sculpt, and people thought them good enough to want one, I would make them affordable and not limited.
Both are things that also lead to recasts.

Few points...


1) The argument of it looking "similar" because it's the same person is honestly a little weak. It's clearly the same sculpt and if you're noticing differences it's mostly due to the paint aps. There's not even any question. Also casting/molding often produces differences in terms of warping so you can;t argue a nose is thicker here or a peck of facial hair is different there.
2) You would? really? You do understand that you don't just sculpt them and they magically duplicate like gremlins when they get wet. You have to spend money on casting materials, and each cast takes time. Also each cast requites clean ups and touch ups by hand. And not to mention painting. Then your time packing and shipping. How much is your spare time worth? Are you really in the business of charity with this hobby? The truth is most guys who offer work have a full or at least part time job so doing this thing in their free time usually has to be profitable to be worth their while. ALSO a cast cannot be casted forever, the original sculpt eventually breaks down over time.

 

[Ironman1188]

Few points...


1) The argument of it looking "similar" because it's the same person is honestly a little weak. It's clearly the same sculpt and if you're noticing differences it's mostly due to the paint aps. There's not even any question. Also casting/molding often produces differences in terms of warping so you can;t argue a nose is thicker here or a peck of facial hair is different there.
2) You would? really? You do understand that you don't just sculpt them and they magically duplicate like gremlins when they get wet. You have to spend money on casting materials, and each cast takes time. Also each cast requites clean ups and touch ups by hand. And not to mention painting. Then your time packing and shipping. How much is your spare time worth? Are you really in the business of charity with this hobby? The truth is most guys who offer work have a full or at least part time job so doing this thing in their free time usually has to be profitable to be worth their while. ALSO a cast cannot be casted forever, the original sculpt eventually breaks down over time.

Few replies:
1- Maybe its just the way I'm looking at the sculpts. That is : one with no interest in those paricular characters. I'll agree to disagree as, in most cases, people will see what they want to see. Someone "pro" this or "con" that is likely to be influenced by friendship, peer pressure, a dislike for a person or company...

2- Yes. I would. Really!
I fully understand the process, I just, unfortunately, don't have the talent/experience to do it. Gremlins not withstanding.
Lonnie at HeroHeads sells sculpts @ $10 per. Predrilled. Some of these other sculptors won't even drill their sculpts and charge WAY more. Bill Kern has some amazing sculpts and was selling them at $15 each. Predrilled. But, I guess, I and them obviously not most guys. Yes, you get what you pay for. I've been collecting 1:6 figures and sculpts for quite a long time and and find them to be among my faves.

 

[Raymond F.]

2- Yes. I would. Really!
I fully understand the process, I just, unfortunately, don't have the talent/experience to do it. Gremlins not withstanding.
Lonnie at HeroHeads sells sculpts @ $10 per. Predrilled. Some of these other sculptors won't even drill their sculpts and charge WAY more. Bill Kern has some amazing sculpts and was selling them at $15 each. Predrilled. But, I guess, I and them obviously not most guys. Yes, you get what you pay for. I've been collecting 1:6 figures and sculpts for quite a long time and and find them to be among my faves.

Well you won't get an argument from me that the prices in his hobby are inflated!! However I will say that the few times I've offered up custom work for sale, it's always felt like charity work because if you factor out the hours i have left from my job, and taking care of necessary errands, and maintaining relationships very little is left for this hobby. And hourly breakdown custom work done right really amounts to only a little over minimum wage. It's mostly done out of love for the hobby. So basically my time is worth more.

Guys who are able to offer the items for lower costs either do so at a lower quality or do enough of this work to make it a profitable full time job. I like Lonnie a lot and have gotten things from him for example but that's a pure example of castings that are not cleaned up in the slightest, also castings that are made off castings, I've gotten one kind of head once, then again a year later only to find that about 30% of the detail was lost. Again not knocking him at all. Price aside with as much stuff in my collection as I have now I only want it if it's great looking.

 

[Ironman1188]

Absolutely.
Lonnie's Eydylhand sculpts [does he still do sculpting?] were among the first variety of custom sculpts available to 1:6 guys that weren't all the same old thing.
Bill Kern's stuff is great, decent castings, great price and he was even casting his AA sculpts in brown which I personally really liked.
Believe me when I say, if I could sculpt there would be very little wanting for 1:6 heads.

 

[Harold996tt]

You'll need to divorce yourself from your emotional attachment to Rainman to discuss this rationally and logically.

The fact is Rainman realistically owes thousands of dolllars to film studios in licensing royalties for the various projects he's done. Whether the studios deserve, want or will miss that money does not even enter into the discussion. If we're talking about doing what's right. If Headplay should not recast heads, then Rainman should be paying royalties for his projects. Even if he doesn't have a contract, he should just send them a check for 10% of his profits once the project is done.

If we're talking about doing what's right. . .

Well said.