Sideshow Superman Man Of Steel Premium Format

[SDguy]

That's your opinion but sorry man I disagree, the proto looks better and more defined, the muscles are more noticeable through the suit and going by the reviews I have seen of this on you tube they have confirmed what I thought.

No offense but for you those details are big deals, but for me they are just nit picks IMO but I still think respect your opinion. Anyway, I would rather the statue have all those flaws you mentioned and have the muscles show through the suit like the proto. I am really disappointed that sideshow did this as this was a piece I was looking forward to getting because I love the colors on the suit but it just looks so cheap looking. Polystone statues have a real strong hard look to them and you can you tell just by looking at this figure that it is not polystone but a rubber figure.

Well of course it's my opinion... all of this talk about whether we like it or not; it's all opinion

Like I said, not everyone will like every PF. Luckily for me they got rid of the things I didn't like. Guess not so good for you.

I will challenge you on being able to "see" what the statue is made of just by looking at it... I'm not buying it.

 

[SammyG]

Polystone statues have a real strong hard look to them and you can you tell just by looking at this figure that it is not polystone but a rubber figure... because PVC is more malleable.

I hate to be the terminology police, but as a scientist, I feel obliged to interject here. In the interest of not compounding this issue for some of those reading these posts in an effort to make up their minds (i.e. Scobedoo), I think we need to be a bit more correct in certain statements. First of all, rubber is an elastomer made of polyisoprene that is indeed malleable. PVC is neither. It is a vinyl polymer that when polymerized and cast, results in a brittle end product (polymer science term for hard). PVC is certainly not malleable, however it does allow for slight flexion, albeit with huge resistance (as evidenced by the fact that you have to spread the feet on this statue ever so slightly to fit into the base). The reason polystone does not flex, is that it has particulate matter suspended in resin which limits the bending strength of the material.

All this to say, PVC does not impact the structural strength of the statue. It is rigid, and VERY VERY strong. It is, however, very light. This bothers me, but the end product is simply awesome. The abs are definitely there, and lighting is the key to highlighting them.

 

[Darkavatar]

Well of course it's my opinion... all of this talk about whether we like it or not; it's all opinion

Like I said, not everyone will like every PF. Luckily for me they got rid of the things I didn't like. Guess not so good for you.

No man it isn't but I am glad they fixed the issues that bothered u.

I will challenge you on being able to "see" what the statue is made of just by looking at it... I'm not buying it.

I don't know man it just looks so soft looking, I will admit if the suit was poorly tailored on a polystone statue I would not be able to tell the difference, just like the Batman PF with its saggy arm pits, you can't tell whether that statue is polystone or not. However, since the tailoring on this suit appears to be perfect, it just doesn't have that hard appearance that polystone statues have. Like the scar Jo Black Widow is an example, you can tell right away that the suit is not put on a soft rubbery substance but something hard like polystone.

 

[Darkavatar]

I hate to be the terminology police, but as a scientist, I feel obliged to interject here. In the interest of not compounding this issue for some of those reading these posts in an effort to make up their minds (i.e. Scobedoo), I think we need to be a bit more correct in certain statements. First of all, rubber is an elastomer made of polyisoprene that is indeed malleable. PVC is neither. It is a vinyl polymer that when polymerized and cast, results in a brittle end product (polymer science term for hard). PVC is certainly not malleable, however it does allow for slight flexion, albeit with huge resistance (as evidenced by the fact that you have to spread the feet on this statue ever so slightly to fit into the base). The reason polystone does not flex, is that it has particulate matter suspended in resin which limits the bending strength of the material.

First of all I would like to say that is a very informative piece you wrote and does explain why I can bend the hair stands on some PVC sculpts. But Polystone feels harder than PVC, but obviously more brittle since if you smashed it with a hammer it would break into pieces, whereas you might dent PVC, if did the same.

All this to say, PVC does not impact the structural strength of the statue. It is rigid, and VERY VERY strong. It is, however, very light. This bothers me, but the end product is simply awesome. The abs are definitely there, and lighting is the key to highlighting them.

They might be there but I tend to agree with the you tube reviewer that they are not as pronounced as they are on the prototype whether this is due the costume not being as tight as the proto or IMO the lost of detail when they changed from polystone to PVC, which happens a lot on, since the resin proto Hot Toys sculpts loose some detail on their final products. I really don't think it is lighting because like I said I have not seen one picture of the final product where the muscle definition looks as defined or pronounced as it does on pictures of the proto.

 

[SammyG]

First of all I would like to say that is a very informative piece you wrote and does explain why I can bend the hair stands on some PVC sculpts. But Polystone feels harder than PVC, but obviously more brittle since if you smashed it with a hammer it would break into pieces, whereas you might dent PVC, if did the same.

They might be there but I tend to agree with the you tube reviewer that they are not as pronounced as they are on the prototype whether this is due the costume not being as tight as the proto or IMO the lost of detail when they changed from polystone to PVC, which happens a lot on, since the resin proto Hot Toys sculpts loose some detail on their final products. I really don't think it is lighting because like I said I have not seen one picture of the final product that looks as defined as the picture of the proto.

Thanks Darkavatar. I think the material choices matter significantly less than we originally thought. It appears that this PVC is quite pure, meaning there appears (based on the bending strength) to be very little quantity of plasticizers in the material; although this is speculation as SS does not reveal anything regarding the material. If it is the case, I think casting it may have indeed been a challenge for SS. Notwithstanding, I still wish it were made of polystone as I am a weight-weenie and would have preferred some heft, but I also stand corrected, that this is indeed a quality statue. For me, that is the bottom line here.

As for the abs, it may very well be a loss in detail from prototype-to-casting, a slight alteration in sculpt, or costume. There is a noticeable gap between the suit and the sculpt directly under the shield, which really only allows the most superficial part of the ab sculpt to be visualized, which is why the proper lighting is key. We've also heard that there was a possibility that the suit was glued to the resin in the prototype, which may have also contributed to the lack of visibility. Who knows... as always, there are more questions than answers regarding the back-end of this decision by SS to go with PVC.

 

[QuiGonFishing]

DA, you're spending a lot of time and energy putting up barriers to the (admittedly subjective) opinions and information that your friends on the board who have this piece in hand are trying to impart to you. That's certainly fair if you've become convinced that the issues that come with this piece are in your mind insurmountable. Bottom line is that none of us are going to be able to "talk you out" of an opinion you seems to have already formed.

If you happen to be in a position to take delivery of this piece and then return it to SS if you are not pleased without significant penalty (depending on if NR Customs fees, etc. might apply), I would simply urge you in friendship to receive him and give him a fair first-hand evaluation. Many of us were seriously put off by PVC-gate and what we were seeing in early photos and a few Youtube submissions. In the end, many of these same folks are now among the strongest supporters of the piece. Give it a fair shake if/when you receive it and make your decision. In the mean time I won't participate in the back and forth any more in an attempt to convince you since I don't think that's gonna happen. But don't do yourself the disservice of writing off this piece based on third party pics and opinions. you might be surprised. I know I was!

Good Luck,

Cheers!

 

[Darkavatar]

Thanks Darkavatar. I think the material choices matter significantly less than we originally thought. It appears that this PVC is quite pure, meaning there appears (based on the bending strength) to be very little quantity of plasticizers in the material; although this is speculation as SS does not reveal anything regarding the material. If it is the case, I think casting it may have indeed been a challenge for SS.

No worries my friend, I always give credit where credit is due and besides I learned some things from your post.

Notwithstanding, I still wish it were made of polystone as I am a weight-weenie and would have preferred some heft, but I also stand corrected, that this is indeed a quality statue. For me, that is the bottom line here.

Well I don't really collect many statues other than the Bruce Lee GOD Blitzway one and a few others because of Sideshow's poor quality paint jobs, so the weight thing is not that important to me but I do think it should have some heft to it, just simply because it is a statue and not an action figure. Nevertheless, the costume is so beautiful and I agree to some extent that this makes it a high quality statue, yet I can understand why because of the weight, some people will just see this as a cheap toy, despite what it looks like. However, in my case, I mainly don't like it because the muscle definition does not look as pronounced as the proto but I have to admit the fact that it is PVC does bother me to, for no other reason other than it is PVC and not Polystone.

As for the abs, it may very well be a loss in detail from prototype-to-casting, a slight alteration in sculpt, or costume. There is a noticeable gap between the suit and the sculpt directly under the shield, which really only allows the most superficial part of the ab sculpt to be visualized, which is why the proper lighting is key. We've also heard that there was a possibility that the suit was glued to the resin in the prototype, which may have also contributed to the lack of visibility. Who knows... as always, there are more questions than answers regarding the back-end of this decision by SS to go with PVC.

Yeah I was thinking that could be a possible reason to, the suit on the proto looks so tight that it almost looks like it isn't a fabric suit but a fully sculpted costume!

 

[Scobedoo]

Welcome Scobedoo!

The deal is this, no one can tell you how to feel about this piece or any other piece. As you mention, this hobby is all about what these pieces mean to you, which is always the answer to what are the worth to you. Each of us need to decide that for ourselves. The pain point for a lot of us is that in order to decide whether a piece is worth it to us, we need to know what we're getting up front. In the case of the MoS release, we were not permitted to weigh these things (pun fully intended) ahead of our orders.

I'm beginning to come around to the idea that SS went the way they did on this piece because they honestly felt that the PVC treatment gave them the best shot at producing the best presentation piece they could create. The metallic "skin" combined with the expertly tailored top layer really gives the suit a reflective look with Supe's musculature coming through so close to what we saw in the movie that it can be truly breath taking under the correct lighting conditions. Not sure I buy the idea that the use of the PVC made the piece more expensive to produce, but I don't think there can be much doubt that retooling the factory for a material change might have been less than convenient for the process.

But with all that said, I believe SS should have moved mountains and torn down barriers, and most importantly - had the courage - to let us know in advance what they were doing with this piece and why. The idea that they didn't know until the statue was shipping is fiction.

So bottom line, you'll have to decide for yourself. Since we've now dealt with all the debate and argued and re-argued our positions for you on this thread, the legwork is done (but you will have to take the time to actually go back and read through it). You have all the tools and information that we didn't have when we were receiving him. I think its a great piece. Given the materials used, I would have been happier if the price point were lower. But I've decided I can deal with it (although I'll be paying CLOSE attention to subsequent releases for materials used). So the question is, what do you think...

Thanks for your detailed answer

 

[Darkavatar]

DA, you're spending a lot of time and energy putting up barriers to the (admittedly subjective) opinions and information that your friends on the board who have this piece in hand are trying to impart to you. That's certainly fair if you've become convinced that the issues that come with this piece are in your mind insurmountable. Bottom line is that none of us are going to be able to "talk you out" of an opinion you seems to have already formed.

Yes they are subjective and I know none of you are going to talk me out of my opinion but I am just disappointed in what I have seen.

If you happen to be in a position to take delivery of this piece and then return it to SS if you are not pleased without significant penalty (depending on if NR Customs fees, etc. might apply), I would simply urge you in friendship to receive him and give him a fair first-hand evaluation. Many of us were seriously put off by PVC-gate and what we were seeing in early photos and a few Youtube submissions. In the end, many of these same folks are now among the strongest supporters of the piece. Give it a fair shake if/when you receive it and make your decision. In the mean time I won't participate in the back and forth any more in an attempt to convince you since I don't think that's gonna happen.

Nor will I try and convince you, I was just venting man not trying to persuade you that I am right. Don't worry I won't mention my thoughts on this product are far as it being better or worse than the proto anymore. I have said my piece and I will leave it at that.

But don't do yourself the disservice of writing off this piece based on third party pics and opinions. you might be surprised. I know I was!

Good Luck,

Cheers!

Thanks man, I will take that into consideration.

 

[mattman6886]

In regards to the muscles showing up through the suit, they are definitely there and how much you can see really depends on lighting, as it does on the actual suit in the movie. As far as I can tell looking at stills from the movie and looking at my statue, while maybe not 100% accurate, mine seems actually more accurate to me than the pronounced creases in the prototype's suit. Plus, you have to realize with the pose standing straight up and leaning a bit back even, his muscles wouldn't show as much as if he were leaning forward or flexing. Some examples:

Movie:





Mine:

Prototype:




On a side note, are we sure that the prototype wasn't also PVC? Maybe someone more knowledgeable can tell from the shots of the unpainted sculpt from the sneak preview video, but I can't.

 

[Rulk]

The likeness is definitely there... I'm so glad I didn't order this though.

Black Widow was like 5 lbs when they advertised 10

It would be nice if they didn't cut corners on production pieces.

 

[SammyG]

On a side note, are we sure that the prototype wasn't also PVC? Maybe someone more knowledgeable can tell from the shots of the unpainted sculpt from the sneak preview video, but I can't.

Great shot!

Regarding your last query, I wanted to show the sneak peak shots from the MOS and the Keaton PF. Both look similar (although lighting is different), and we know the Keaton PF is polystone from SSAlex over on SF. I also recall a post over there saying that the prototype was resin of some sort, although not specifically polystone. Ah speculation...

 

[Darklord Dave]

Koto is also a fraction of the size

And doesn't have a full cloth outfit.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Great shot!

Regarding your last query, I wanted to show the sneak peak shots from the MOS and the Keaton PF. Both look similar (although lighting is different), and we know the Keaton PF is polystone from SSAlex over on SF. I also recall a post over there saying that the prototype was resin of some sort, although not specifically polystone. Ah speculation...

View attachment 144309View attachment 144310

The prototype was standard resin. The nature of how you cast PVC would never allow them to make a prototype of PVC.

 

[Remy]

I think the main thing that would have alleviated all these issues, is that Sideshow should have sold it at around the price point of $299.
I think eventhough Sideshow says its actually costing them more with the switch, an overwhelming majority do not believe this, and since most PVC figures are cheaper, this figure should also should have been cheaper. So at $299, I think a lot of people may have been ok with the switch, and it wouldnt have blown up to this stage.

Now, unfortunately the only ones who do not collect any Hot Toys and only collect 1/4 Polystone PF figures would still be screwed because it goes against
what they collect. So to them, its like buying a bigger Hot Toys.


I think on the other end, for those who collect not only 1/4 PF but also Hot toys figures, had SS been forthcoming and announced the PVC switch...you'll have the initial "Nooooooooo...we want Polystone"...but would eventually potentially warm up to it had the figure been around $299.
Let's face it, since its switched to PVC, the comparison now is closer to a Hot Toys figure.
So getting an equivalent of 1/4 HT at $299 is not bad at all.
the thing is, right now, beside not being happy with the switch to PVC, people are also feeling ripped off cause its plastic but its still $400.
For a $400 figure, it SHOULD have been polystone.

On that note though, mine is coming in tomorrow...and I am still quite optimistic that I will like the figure in hand though.

 

[QuiGonFishing]

I think the main thing that would have alleviated all these issues, is that Sideshow should have sold it at around the price point of $299.
I think eventhough Sideshow says its actually costing them more with the switch, an overwhelming majority do not believe this, and since most PVC figures are cheaper, this figure should also should have been cheaper. So at $299, I think a lot of people may have been ok with the switch, and it wouldnt have blown up to this stage.

Now, unfortunately the only ones who do not collect any Hot Toys and only collect 1/4 Polystone PF figures would still be screwed because it goes against
what they collect. So to them, its like buying a bigger Hot Toys.


I think on the other end, for those who collect not only 1/4 PF but also Hot toys figures, had SS been forthcoming and announced the PVC switch...you'll have the initial "Nooooooooo...we want Polystone"...but would eventually potentially warm up to it had the figure been around $299.
Let's face it, since its switched to PVC, the comparison now is closer to a Hot Toys figure.
So getting an equivalent of 1/4 HT at $299 is not bad at all.
the thing is, right now, beside not being happy with the switch to PVC, people are also feeling ripped off cause its plastic but its still $400.
For a $400 figure, it SHOULD have been polystone.

On that note though, mine is coming in tomorrow...and I am still quite optimistic that I will like the figure in hand though.

Agreed.

 

[darkmummy]

Well I think the material really has nothing to do with the price. Both pvc and polystone are dirt cheap material. The price of main ingredient of polystone is roughly 2 US dollars for 50kg.

It's still the design, sculpture and paint worth that much money. Definitely not like 'for $400 we should get poly stone statue'.

 

[j97e1]

I don't think polystone PFs have visible seam/mold lines. At least none of mine do.

 

[MagnumOpus]

Pffff! I am tired but you don't! You can't compare Hot Toys with Sideshow! How many times do we have to repeat ourselves? Hot Toys is using PVC/Plastic in a great way! Their paint application is out of this world! They can captured the likeness awesomely! If Sideshow could do that with using PVC, then NO PROBLEM! But we know that they couldn't! Still some collectors say the same s.hit repeatedly that if HT charge plastic products at 400$, then why Sideshow couldn't?!!! Are you all blind? Can you show me a one example of Sideshow's human face which has the same features with the HT in terms of wrinkles and details? Besides KOTOBUKIYA is a great company which produces awesome PVC statues at lower prices! Still you are defending that the lack of using fabric at their products! I am glad they are not using! I explained millions of time that these clothes are producing in CHINA! The country which is famous with replicating every product with cheapest prices!!! Do you believe that your precious premium format's fabrics are high-quality and durable? Yesterday you were proud to be a collector of POLYSTONE and today you all become the lovers of PLASTIC! Be objective for once!
-Explain the reasons of increasing prices!
-Explain the usage of PVC! Can you say that Sideshow could produce life-likeness faces like Hot Toys?
-Why don't you announce the usage of PVC before pre-ordering Man of Steel and Chris Reeve's statues?
-Changing product details is a honest action after taking orders?
-If your fabric at China can't replicate your painting application properly, what is the point of showing a prototype? Are we playing gamble?
-Why don't you explain the reasons of last minute changes to your customers like Red Sonja's skin color? You sell it with a pale skin color cause the base is snowy! For god's sake she is wearing a FUR!!!
-Does Sideshow think all their customers are IDIOT or RETARDED?

 

[kalel1974]

Pffff! I am tired but you don't! You can't compare Hot Toys with Sideshow! How many times do we have to repeat ourselves? Hot Toys is using PVC/Plastic in a great way! Their paint application is out of this world! They can captured the likeness awesomely! If Sideshow could do that with using PVC, then NO PROBLEM! But we know that they couldn't! Still some collectors say the same s.hit repeatedly that if HT charge plastic products at 400$, then why Sideshow couldn't?!!! Are you all blind? Can you show me a one example of Sideshow's human face which has the same features with the HT in terms of wrinkles and details? Besides KOTOBUKIYA is a great company which produces awesome PVC statues at lower prices! Still you are defending that the lack of using fabric at their products! I am glad they are not using! I explained millions of time that these clothes are producing in CHINA! The country which is famous with replicating every product with cheapest prices!!! Do you believe that your precious premium format's fabrics are high-quality and durable? Yesterday you were proud to be a collector of POLYSTONE and today you all become the lovers of PLASTIC! Be objective for once!
-Explain the reasons of increasing prices!
-Explain the usage of PVC! Can you say that Sideshow could produce life-likeness faces like Hot Toys?
-Why don't you announce the usage of PVC before pre-ordering Man of Steel and Chris Reeve's statues?
-Changing product details is a honest action after taking orders?
-If your fabric at China can't replicate your painting application properly, what is the point of showing a prototype? Are we playing gamble?
-Why don't you explain the reasons of last minute changes to your customers like Red Sonja's skin color? You sell it with a pale skin color cause the base is snowy! For god's sake she is wearing a FUR!!!
-Does Sideshow think all their customers are IDIOT or RETARDED?

Great post. I love the Sonja statue but the winter tan was a bit out of place. Sideshow quality has been quite iffy lately. My Master Chief statue had weak magnets so the arm fell and broke. The Sonja tan thing was crazy, and now my favorite super hero gets another shotty statue. I don't think they even looked at mine. The statue has a horrible paint application, frayed sleeves and just cost way too much for the materials used. Hot Toys quality face this was not.