Star Trek: Picard

[e30ernest]

As the audience who is connected to Picard and Riker, we have an obvious bias but Shaw’s logic here is sound. Tactically inferior vs. a significant force, 500 personnel vs. 2, “the needs of the many”. He shows he’s capable of personal growth when he consider’s Seven’s input.

Shaw is like Jellico, calculated in what he does, emotion is secondary. He brings good balance and grit to the show. For me, he and Riker are making the show so far. I hope he makes it through the season.

I too liked seeing Picard take command. Leaders don’t stop being leaders so this felt like Picard, and is what we should’ve gotten in Season 1.

Every time the show switched over to Raffi just stifled things. I found the exchange between her ex-husband to be on the dumb side. She’s cleaned her life up and is asking for help to essentially save countless lives, and his response is to offer her a choice between her son and Sneed (the Ferengi). The ultimatum doesn’t work given where she’s at in life, it’s not like she’s in her trailer getting high like in Season 1.

The Worf sequence was incredible but not a surprise given the trailers. The decapitation of Sneed (not necessary) who easily was no threat to Worf was hasty seeing as he likely had valuable intel.

I liked last weeks episode more but we’re gradually building on the story.

Looking forward to next week.

Regarding Raffi

Spoiler

Yeah I agree, that exchange was stupid. It's even dumber since Raffi was vindicated in Season 1. She was absolutely right in her "conspiracy theory". If anything, her husband should be apologizing.

Or maybe they never let the world know and the whole thing remained classified.

The only thing that made Shaw dislikable in my opinion was his treatment towards Riker and Picard over dinner on episode 1. You have 2 ranking officers aboard, I don't think that would sit well with any other Starfleet admiral. He was lucky Picard and Riker were on the patient side.

But in this episode

Spoiler

His decision making was sound. He did not run away after beaming over the group. He knew the moment he turned away, they'd get shot up in the rear. And while he wanted to give up 1 person for the entire crew, the moment he found out Jack was Picard's son, he folded. He was not going to sacrifice the admiral's son. I liked that touch.

A really loved the scene where

Spoiler

Picard and Beverly first meet here. No words spoken and Picard finally admits what he knew all along. "BELAY THAT ORDER!"

 

[Skyroes]

Regarding Raffi

Spoiler

Yeah I agree, that exchange was stupid. It's even dumber since Raffi was vindicated in Season 1. She was absolutely right in her "conspiracy theory". If anything, her husband should be apologizing.

Or maybe they never let the world know and the whole thing remained classified.

The only thing that made Shaw dislikable in my opinion was his treatment towards Riker and Picard over dinner on episode 1. You have 2 ranking officers aboard, I don't think that would sit well with any other Starfleet admiral. He was lucky Picard and Riker were on the patient side.

But in this episode

Spoiler

His decision making was sound. He did not run away after beaming over the group. He knew the moment he turned away, they'd get shot up in the rear. And while he wanted to give up 1 person for the entire crew, the moment he found out Jack was Picard's son, he folded. He was not going to sacrifice the admiral's son. I liked that touch.

A really loved the scene where

Spoiler

Picard and Beverly first meet here. No words spoken and Picard finally admits what he knew all along. "BELAY THAT ORDER!"

I’m looking forward to seeing Shaw’s back story to explain that initial hostility. Probably a similar experience to Sisko and Wolf 359.

The Titan warp in scene breaking the tractor beam was a nice touch too.

 

[MyenShi]

This could not possibly be more different to Season 1 !!! (and presumably season 2 [didn't watch that]).

Seasons 1 and 2 need to get the Borg Cube treatment.

Which they essentially did in a way since S3 is a soft reboot. Really unfortunate the series wasn’t like this from the start.

Star Trek deserved better; to do new things but to respect what came before. Glad there’s been a course correction and I hope that continues.

 

[Kebron]

Regarding Raffi

Spoiler

Yeah I agree, that exchange was stupid. It's even dumber since Raffi was vindicated in Season 1. She was absolutely right in her "conspiracy theory". If anything, her husband should be apologizing.

Or maybe they never let the world know and the whole thing remained classified.

The only thing that made Shaw dislikable in my opinion was his treatment towards Riker and Picard over dinner on episode 1. You have 2 ranking officers aboard, I don't think that would sit well with any other Starfleet admiral. He was lucky Picard and Riker were on the patient side.

But in this episode

Spoiler

His decision making was sound. He did not run away after beaming over the group. He knew the moment he turned away, they'd get shot up in the rear. And while he wanted to give up 1 person for the entire crew, the moment he found out Jack was Picard's son, he folded. He was not going to sacrifice the admiral's son. I liked that touch.

A really loved the scene where

Spoiler

Picard and Beverly first meet here. No words spoken and Picard finally admits what he knew all along. "BELAY THAT ORDER!"

Regarding the whole Raffi thing with her ex. I actually see his side. She became so obsessed with conspiracies which apparently sent her into drug use. The ex pulled out of it for their son, she overcame it much later, when the damage was already done. He’s also a civilian, he doesn’t see nor cares about the big picture. He cares about his world and his family. She’s Starfleet she knows all of the big bad scary things out there and why she has to sacrifice her family.

In his eyes she could just stop and go see her son, someone else can go save the universe, in her eyes she’s the one that has to see the job to its end to protect everyone. Both are right both are wrong.

 

[Kebron]

Holy Hell this show gets better each episode. So much to unpack. But I’ll wait till others chime in first.

 

[a-dev]

Awesomely acted scene between Picard and Beverly Crusher. I was pretty engrossed in their argument and surprised by it in a way, the idea of those two actively romantically involved. I know the old show had an implied history and maybe the odd scene here or there but by the time the movies came around there was absolutely nothing.

The Nebula battles and tension was great. Shocked though at how it ended up

Spoiler

with Riker ordering Picard off the bridge, accusing him of getting them all killed. I did wonder was that a bit too harsh a turn considering the ''Number 1'' banter not long before that. And if Riker did think they were as good as dead was that really the kind of tone he wanted to have with his former Captain turned best friend as potentially their last interaction?

 

[Johnny Utah]

Great episode. Loved how they built the main villain reveal.

My favourite part was when Worf referred to a friend, a man of honor...RIP Rene

 

[Kebron]

Spoiler

with Riker ordering Picard off the bridge, accusing him of getting them all killed. I did wonder was that a bit too harsh a turn considering the ''Number 1'' banter not long before that. And if Riker did think they were as good as dead was that really the kind of tone he wanted to have with his former Captain turned best friend as potentially their last interaction?

Spoiler

Riker’s reluctance to engage the Shrike had me wondering if maybe he’s involved with them someway. Then the Changeling reveal droppped. Now I’m wondering if he’s a Changeling. Most likely he’s neither and just has a different style than Picard, and he realized he second guessed himself because Picard was there.

 

[e30ernest]

Spoiler

Riker’s reluctance to engage the Shrike had me wondering if maybe he’s involved with them someway. Then the Changeling reveal droppped. Now I’m wondering if he’s a Changeling. Most likely he’s neither and just has a different style than Picard, and he realized he second guessed himself because Picard was there.

My take on this, Picard was wrong and Riker was right.

Spoiler

Picard is afraid of losing a son he never had. He just had an argument with Beverley where she said these people are not after Jack because he was Jack, rather they are after Jack because of Picard. So Picard is already biased in his decisions here to end the threat right there for the sake of his son. He even brings this up with Riker when he mentions Riker's lost son.

Riker on the other hand is thinking objectively. They are outgunned and the logical move here is to try to escape and find reinforcements.

The ending was harsh yes, but I think Riker was right to remove Picard who at that point was nothing more but a distraction on the bridge.

I liked the whole Titan arc here. I am still not digging the Raffi part of the story. However, it's good to see this finally tie in to the Shrike.

 

[Skyroes]

Awesomely acted scene between Picard and Beverly Crusher. I was pretty engrossed in their argument and surprised by it in a way, the idea of those two actively romantically involved. I know the old show had an implied history and maybe the odd scene here or there but by the time the movies came around there was absolutely nothing.

The Nebula battles and tension was great. Shocked though at how it ended up

Spoiler

with Riker ordering Picard off the bridge, accusing him of getting them all killed. I did wonder was that a bit too harsh a turn considering the ''Number 1'' banter not long before that. And if Riker did think they were as good as dead was that really the kind of tone he wanted to have with his former Captain turned best friend as potentially their last interaction?

Pretty much agree on all points.

Didn’t like the ending at all, complete buzz kill.

We spent two episodes showcasing the lasting bond between Picard and Riker (including the flashback at the very beginning of the episode), all for it to come crashing down the way it did here, it didn’t jive given their long history, they’ve been in tougher situations than this, and similar, Nemesis anyone?

Riker seemed incompetent, or at least unwilling or unable to “make the tough call” in command, didn’t feel like I was watching the same savvy Riker engaging a far more deadlier foe in The Best of Both Worlds.

Picard was right in exploiting the leak to trick them and engage, Riker seemed too oblivious to see his tactics weren’t working.

Can’t stand to see any more disrespect towards Picard after S1 and S2.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

Just . . . perfection . . . pure, unadulterated, GENIUS.

When you think it can't get any better - it DOES.

Everything about this makes you appreciate being a long-term franchise fan, and knowing ALL the history. The new DS9 connection left me shaking.

I am totally blown away by this so far


.

 

[e30ernest]

Pretty much agree on all points.

Didn’t like the ending at all, complete buzz kill.

We spent two episodes showcasing the lasting bond between Picard and Riker (including the flashback at the very beginning of the episode), all for it to come crashing down the way it did here, it didn’t jive given their long history, they’ve been in tougher situations than this, and similar, Nemesis anyone?

Riker seemed incompetent, or at least unwilling or unable to “make the tough call” in command, didn’t feel like I was watching the same savvy Riker engaging a far more deadlier foe in The Best of Both Worlds.

Picard was right in exploiting the leak to trick them and engage, Riker seemed too obvious to see his tactics weren’t working.

Can’t stand to see any more disrespect towards Picard after S1 and S2.

Was Picard right though?

Spoiler

Or was he acting out of selfish intent?

We already saw what direct hits from photon torpedoes do to the Shrike (basically nothing). What would change if they got around to its back?

I think Riker was right all along.

 

[a-dev]

I'm 'liking' all posts even expressing opposite opinions because thankfully we now at least have a season of this show that merits discussion.

I know what Skyroes means about the buzzkill ending, although I'm going to give benefit of the doubt because it's only the 3rd episode and by so many accounts the season gets better and the youtubers say it all makes a satisfying sendoff for the TNG crew. So maybe this, presumably temporary

Spoiler

rift between Riker and Picard

will prove worthwhile despite how sudden and harsh it seemed.

 

[Skyroes]

[[/ISPOILER]Was Picard right though?

Spoiler

Or was he acting out of selfish intent?

We already saw what direct hits from photon torpedoes do to the Shrike (basically nothing). What would change if they got around to its back?

I think Riker was right all along.

It felt like they were not getting any where, and he doubled down rather than even make a tweak in his strategy. There was a point that if they would’ve acted when Picard suggested, they likely would’ve creeped up on the rear end of the Shrike - perhaps to a weak spot or more lightly shielded area. Kirk did the same thing, creeping up on the rear of the Reliant which caught them off guard with no sensors.

That’s not what really bothered me, it was Riker chastising Picard at the end publicly on the bridge.

During Pegasus, Riker knowingly withheld information from Picard and put the Enterprise at risk, even after following Admiral Pressman the first time literally condemned an entire crew to their death. Picard called him out, but tactfully (really great scene). The way it was done here really killed the vibe especially coming off the ending of episode 2 and the epic “Engage!” scene. At the end of the day, the buck stops with the Captain, they’re supposed to consider the input of their first officers but the decision lies with him. He made the call to engage when he did and at that point the advantage was lost, you can’t blame someone else for that.

I think the overall scene would’ve paid better homage with Riker as number one and Picard in command, which seemingly was how episode 2 ended.

 

[a-dev]

It felt like they were in getting no where, and he doubled down rather than even make a tweak in his strategy. There was a point that if they would’ve acted when Picard suggested, they likely would’ve creeped up on the rear end of the Shrike - perhaps to a weak spot or more lightly shielded area. Kirk did the same thing, creeping up on the rear of the Reliant which caught them off guard with no sensors.

That’s not what really bothered me, it was Riker chastising Picard at the end publicly on the bridge.

During Pegasus, Riker knowingly withheld information from Picard and put the Enterprise at risk, even after following Admiral Pressman the first time literally condemned an entire crew to their death. Picard called him out, but tactfully (really great scene). The way it was done here really killed the vibe especially coming off the ending of episode 2 and the epic “Engage!” scene.

I think the overall scene would’ve paid better homage with Riker as number one and Picard in command, which seemingly was how episode 2 ended.

I'm TAKING THIS UP WITH YOU, WILL!

 

[Skyroes]

My take on this, Picard was wrong and Riker was right.

Spoiler

Picard is afraid of losing a son he never had. He just had an argument with Beverley where she said these people are not after Jack because he was Jack, rather they are after Jack because of Picard. So Picard is already biased in his decisions here to end the threat right there for the sake of his son. He even brings this up with Riker when he mentions Riker's lost son.

Riker on the other hand is thinking objectively. They are outgunned and the logical move here is to try to escape and find reinforcements.

The ending was harsh yes, but I think Riker was right to remove Picard who at that point was nothing more but a distraction on the bridge.

I liked the whole Titan arc here. I am still not digging the Raffi part of the story. However, it's good to see this finally tie in to the Shrike.

Same. Worf is barely holding things together over there, hopefully it finds its footing soon.

I think the changling visuals looked better in DS9 as well.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

I'm 'liking' all posts even expressing opposite opinions because thankfully we now at least have a season of this show that merits discussion.

I know what Skyroes means about the buzzkill ending, although I'm going to give benefit of the doubt because it's only the 3rd episode and by so many accounts the season gets better and the youtubers say it all makes a satisfying sendoff for the TNG crew. So maybe this, presumably temporary

Spoiler

rift between Riker and Picard

will prove worthwhile despite how sudden and harsh it seemed.

Let's hope so - I'll admit the change in Riker's approach to Jl did upset me - but then they were under a huge amount of pressure and friends DO occasionally lash out (you're allowed when you're good friends - as long as ya does the "sorries").

.

 

[Kebron]

I'm 'liking' all posts even expressing opposite opinions because thankfully we now at least have a season of this show that merits discussion.

Even with the disagreements, I think everyone agrees the show is overall good.

I’m not put off as others on Raffi’s story. I do agree it slows the pace a bit, but it’s just cause the Picard/Riker stuff is so good.

With more Worf this week I really liked it a lot, but I’m a Worf/Klingon fanboy, second favorite character after Odo. And let’s just say this weeks surprise sent me into fanboy overdrive.

 

[Skyroes]

Let's hope so - I'll admit the change in Riker's approach to Jl did upset me - but then they were under a huge amount of pressure and friends DO occasionally lash out (you're allowed when you're good friends - as long as ya does the "sorries").

.

That’s the only real issue with the episode, it seemed so out of place and unprofessional. No Captain (regardless of the dire circumstances), openly says “well, were all going to die.” Remember when Sisko and the Defiant crew were facing an entire fleet of Dominion ships in the wormhole, 1 ship vs. 1000? Composure was maintained.

1) Riker knew the Shrike was facing them head on

2) He was aware of the portal weapon and its capabilities

He chose to engage at that point, and not previously when they had the element of surprise. He cries foul at Picard when his decision doesn’t pan out and their own torpedo assault cripples the ship.

One observation that I’ve seen in these new series is a lot of the characters act emotionally petty not strategically critical. The difference is night and day, as we’ve seen in "Pegasus" TNG 7x12 or "Paradise Lost" DS9 4x12). The lack of emotional professionalism from Starfleet officers I also find unfitting for what is essentially a military organization as again they sound like untrained civilians compared to crews of the past.

Episode 4 apparently is when things really kick off so I’m looking forward to next week.

 

[Heavy Metal Spike]

. . . Episode 4 apparently is when things really kick off so I’m looking forward to next week.

You mean it gets even BETTER than the 1st 3 episodes ?!?!?!??!?!?!

.