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Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Dave Cullen is politically conservative for those who like to cancel people on that basis but I found this review hilarious.

 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

That's my main problem with the Federation refusing to help the Romulans, it's out of character.

But they didn't refuse to help the Romulans. They actually started the rescue. It was after the attack on Mars by the synthetics that they withdrew. I reckon we will see more of this storyline emerge given that

the assassins sent to kill Dahj were Romulan
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Dave Cullen is politically conservative for those who like to cancel people on that basis but I found this review hilarious.

[...]

Thanks for this. It's strange, I'm not politically conservative. At least not by Gen X standards ... LOL ... but I'm in full agreement with what he said in this review and his remarks about contemporary Western culture.

I do think some of the writing was weak.

I agree that showrunners in general are veering off course by trying to make atemporal properties resonate very specifically with our time. I'm well-versed in speculative fiction and understand that all stories are "of their time" regardless of setting, but there's a difference between zeitgeist and serving focus groups.

He makes a good point about something I noticed as glaring but forgot about in the tumultuous editing and Picard's overwrought, anxious grumblings ... the anachronistic language displayed by Daj and her soon-to-be-dead boyfriend. Huge mistake, way off-brand.

His remarks about a perceived 'post-happiness' world are spot on. Popular culture suffers from the sly, knowing, self-referential winks and nudges it employs on a near-constant basis to maintain an ironic distance from anything earnest or aspirational. Maybe it's *my* cynicism showing, but can you imagine LOTR being made in this moment, with Frodo and Sam and Aragorn and company fighting the good fight and *believing* in it?

Strange days.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Maybe it's *my* cynicism showing, but can you imagine LOTR being made in this moment, with Frodo and Sam and Aragorn and company fighting the good fight and *believing* in it?

It is hard to imagine. Thank God those films came out when they did. And I think that's one of the reasons Alita really resonated with audiences (those who saw it anyway.) An old story dusted off from the 90's and not "updated" to wallow in any current year bull****.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

His remarks about a perceived 'post-happiness' world are spot on. Popular culture suffers from the sly, knowing, self-referential winks and nudges it employs on a near-constant basis to maintain an ironic distance from anything earnest or aspirational. Maybe it's *my* cynicism showing, but can you imagine LOTR being made in this moment, with Frodo and Sam and Aragorn and company fighting the good fight and *believing* in it?

Strange days.

Yeah, tho I can. Can't remember the context but waaay back some high schoolers were shown a film on 1950s manners and ironically instead of laughing they were kinda wistful, like that was a gentler time where folks were more polite and u didn't have to WORRY all of the time (as they saw it). Look at the outrage over Cap being portrayed as a Nazi, or Luke Skywalker not being purely heroic (as some fans saw it).

IMO people still need to believe, even if popular culture thinks out-snarking each other is the way to be cool. After a while it just gets old and u just wanna take your dog out and play Frisbee.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Yeah, tho I can. Can't remember the context but waaay back some high schoolers were shown a film on 1950s manners and ironically instead of laughing they were kinda wistful, like that was a gentler time where folks were more polite and u didn't have to WORRY all of the time (as they saw it). Look at the outrage over Cap being portrayed as a Nazi, or Luke Skywalker not being purely heroic (as some fans saw it).

IMO people still need to believe, even if popular culture thinks out-snarking each other is the way to be cool. After a while it just gets old and u just wanna take your dog out and play Frisbee.

I think the risk is that while people are indeed looking for something sincere to be inspired by (the success of the straight laced Captain America and Wonder Woman demonstrate that), it is admittedly harder to pull off by an actor with a lack of charisma. Snarky geniuses constantly spouting off sassy one liners are like junk food. Fun to eat and an easy way to feel happy quick, but often don't leave you feeling satisfied. Moral characters who live by a pretty standard set of ethics can easily come off as dull.

However what irks me now is that Star Trek was largely always able to demonstrate the best of humanity and make it entertaining. Its what Trek was since its beginning. You had the occasional one off Federation bad guy; but it was mostly to show us what we can aspire to, and that the greatness of humanity will prevail.

For some reason people are so obsessed with making life more entertaining than it really is that we have made enemies out of each other and found true evil around every corner; obsessed with some idea of "revolution" without any real constructive idea on what a better society should look like outside of vague moralizing generalities; and pointing to rare one-off instances of wrongdoing as blanket proof that evil is deeply entrenched in society that the only solution is to tear it down to studs.

The reality however is that we live in the most technologically, culturally, medically, and morally advanced civilization that has ever existed. We have literally never been closer to Rodenberry's vision than we are at this time, and we are getting closer every day. No human being on earth has ever lived as comfortably or as freely as the average person in modern western society. And what have we chosen to do now that we live in paradise? Find reasons to complain and hate each other.

And maybe that is the true answer to what Star Trek envisioned. When we finally get to the point we are at now we don't use the tools we have to come together as a species and build something even greater, we become indolent and whiney since there is no threat to motivate us to move forward, and we invent one out of innocuous political events just to give us something to do. Seeing anyone that dare defy the arrogance of our beliefs that we have come to be so sure of as an enemy. (and for the record, that criticism is leveled at every side)

The threats that motivated humanity day-to-day went from animal predators, to disease and famine, then to warring countries who legitimately posed a threat to the average man, and today with nothing else left its just the neighbor down the block who has a different view of the world.

And now, since art is reflection of modern culture, even Star Trek is doing it.
 
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Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Holy crap ShadowX81, what a post. :thud:

And I agree with pretty much every word.

For some reason people are so obsessed with making life more entertaining than it really is that we have made enemies out of each other and found true evil around every corner; obsessed with some idea of "revolution" without any real constructive idea on what a better society should look like outside of vague moralizing generalities; and pointing to rare one-off instances of wrongdoing as blanket proof that evil is deeply entrenched in society that the only solution is to tear it down to studs.

And the insane irony is that Hollywood literally presents such fictional individuals (Alexander Pierce, Ultron, Thanos, Kylo Ren in TLJ) as evil incarnate while they themselves champion the same "everything is worthy of outrage/tear it all down" mentality themselves! :slap

The reality however is that we live in the most technologically, culturally, medically, and morally advanced civilization that has ever existed. We have literally never been closer to Rodenberry's vision than we are at this time, and we are getting closer every day. No human being on earth has ever lived as comfortably or as freely as the average person in modern western society. And what have we chosen to do now that we live in paradise? Find reasons to complain and hate each other.

"It's in your nature to destroy yourselves." --Uncle Bob
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Good posts guys.

I was on a Douglas Murray binge on youtube last night. Have a look at his interviews promoting his book The Madness of Crowds. Very interesting stuff encompassing what you guys are talking about here (albeit not Star Trek).
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Good posts guys.

I was on a Douglas Murray binge on youtube last night. Have a look at his interviews promoting his book The Madness of Crowds. Very interesting stuff encompassing what you guys are talking about here (albeit not Star Trek).

Thanks for the recommend. When im not at work or home im usually browsing Barnes and Noble, and il be sure to check that one out.

Honestly I just think western society is going through a bit of an existential crisis right now. With all tangible external threats more or less gone from day to day life, the community essentially disappearing entirely, and other meaningful institutions like religion and even having a traditional family (lifelong marriage and children) kind of falling out of favor with modern generations, the things that used to give our lives meaning are kind of disappearing and people don't quite know where to dedicate their free time to in a way that brings them long-term satisfaction. Turns put people are pretty crappy at giving themselves meaning in a vacuum without turning to depression and some mix of hedonism and nihilism.
Its kind of like that scene in The Matrix where Agent Smith told Morpheus that in the original Paradise Matrix everyone became depressed and the whole program eventually collapsed. I think I finally get that now.

But I do think a lot of people are trying to make up for it by finding meaning in political beliefs and activism. Its become like a new religion.
 
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Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Good posts guys.

I was on a Douglas Murray binge on youtube last night. Have a look at his interviews promoting his book The Madness of Crowds. Very interesting stuff encompassing what you guys are talking about here (albeit not Star Trek).

I'll check out that book.. :duff
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!


Shadowx81 posted:“The reality however is that we live in the most technologically, culturally, medically, and morally advanced civilization that has ever existed.”

That’s subjective.
Many believe and can argue convincingly we’ve regressed morally as a society and civilization as a whole.
The technological dog is wagged by the moral tail.



 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

A 'woke' person or agenda currently refers to delusional people who perceive our society as rife with social injustice such as bigotry, racism, economic inequality in every powerful organization and institution. They then try to force their version of justice in a variety of ways to correct these exaggerated problems often by oppressing people they disagree with or perceive to be 'privileged' by calling them slanderous names, such as calling Trump supporters as 'nazis' or 'racists' or trying to get people blacklisted or fired from their jobs or have social services investigate their children only because they're Republican or made a coarse joke.

Gene Roddenberry, Rick Berman, and the many showrunners of TOS, Next Gen., DS9, Voyager Ent., and the movies have struggled for years with writers that wanted to turn the Federation into the bad guys. You need antagonists to create drama and the writers often tried to turn the Federation into the source of the dilemma. It always went against the positive vision of Star Trek that the mostly human government would regress so the showrunners resisted the writers. You would from time to time see a individual within the Federation be the bad guy with a terrible idea or intention, but the Federation itself was always good and would do the right thing.
That's my main problem with the Federation refusing to help the Romulans, it's out of character.

That's my definition of "woke" as well. Keep in mind that Patrick Stewart has already gone on record in regards to his personal agenda for returning to the character. That is where my concern mostly lies.

I also agree with your points in the second paragraph.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

I think you guys are forgetting about Section 31 which has been a plot of several stories over the years... Basically, an organization within Starfleet that doesn't have to answer to anyone... and they're pretty shady...
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

I am 25, and reading your comments on the last three pages i just fell sorry for you guys, star trek always had inclusive values ,progressivist and WOKE vision for their time. You guys are adults now and see SJW with bad eyes like delusional people, but Kirk or Picard, (your childhood heroes when you watched Trek for the first time) would problably punch your face for this kind of conservative thinking.
Bigotry or racism is bad, there is no excuse for it, people like trump or the president of brasil bolsonaro(trump's dog), they empower people who agree with those kind of thoghts.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

I saw no one here being racist and bigoted so I'm not sure where your second paragraph even came from...unless you're just assuming that anyone who appears to be anti-woke or who is a conservative is by default racist and bigoted? Over-simplification and blanket-labeling such as that is doing society no favours at all - you know how we talk about how 'divided' society is now? That'll be a big reason why. No one likes to be called things they know they aren't.

Also, if conservatives can be fans of Star Trek, which as you said has always been progressive in its values - what does that tell you? How far from you can these people truly be?
 
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Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

I am 25, and reading your comments on the last three pages i just fell sorry for you guys, star trek always had inclusive values ,progressivist and WOKE vision for their time. You guys are adults now and see SJW with bad eyes like delusional people, but Kirk or Picard, (your childhood heroes when you watched Trek for the first time) would problably punch your face for this kind of conservative thinking.
Bigotry or racism is bad, there is no excuse for it, people like trump or the president of brasil bolsonaro(trump's dog), they empower people who agree with those kind of thoghts.

Perfect example of self defeatism.

It is obvious that one can't have a conversation without being demonized.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Perfect example of self defeatism.

It is obvious that one can't have a conversation without being demonized.

DF1F88B1-1778-425D-88FB-9D139923C43C.jpeg
You too a-dev.:wink1:
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

I saw no one here being racist and bigoted so I'm not sure where your second paragraph even came from...unless you're just assuming that anyone who appears to be anti-woke or who is a conservative is by default racist and bigoted? Over-simplification and blanket-labeling such as that is doing society no favours at all - you know how we talk about how 'divided' society is now? That'll be a big reason why. No one likes to be called things they know they aren't.

Also, if conservatives can be fans of Star Trek, which as you said has always been progressive in its values - what does that tell you? How far from you can these people truly be?

I was not saying that the topic has racism and bigotry, i sad that the series always talked with ideas that were progressives and "woke",you guys just didnt compreended because you younger when you watched the series back then on television.
Its just like someone saiying that just in the new star wars they are talking about SJW agenda.
The society is divided because people is afraid of going forward with full progressist actions, you can be conservative as you like, but you dont ride a horse to work because there are cars available.
i am not demonizeing the conversation, i just dont understand how you cannot understand how ****** the world is becoming because people is tied with old philosophys(left and right wing for instance, or religious one).
You guys who started demonizing people who is fighting just for human rights.
 
Re: Patrick Stewart is back as Captain Picard!

Its just like someone saiying that just in the new star wars they are talking about SJW agenda.

It *is* more blatant nowadays. Filmmakers seem to have lost the art of nuance. Lucas' political message was embedded in the subtext, not thrown in your face.

And strong female characters are nothing new.
 
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