Star Wars: Ahsoka

[ObiGlennKenobi]

Spoiler

So if Ashoka is really in the WBW and not a fall induced hallucination, and Anakin is there, does that mean that Anakin can leave the WBW? Would Filoni EVER do that?? Which Anakin are we looking at? The one who became Vader and is now a Force ghost or the one that has yet to become Vader?

yet to become.
I believe this will be not long after their farewell from TCW S7...

 

[chrisstbh]

yet to become.
I believe this will be not long after their farewell from TCW S7...

Nah, it’s just him in the afterlife.

 

[The Buffinator]

The Ahsoka/Marrok duel was my favorite moment of any non-Andor Disney+ show. Not only is that how lightsaber duels would actually play out in "real life" (much like why I respect the Kenobi/Maul duel in Rebels), but I also love how it resisted pandering to audience expectations and playing with character "mystery boxes."

Most enjoyable episode of the series overall. But (and it's a huge but)...

Spoiler

...that ending of Ahsoka in the WBW seems way too reminiscent of when Ahsoka was plucked from death by Ezra. She was once again waking up there and being greeted by someone from her past. If that's what happened again here, but this time with Anakin from before ROTS "catching" Ahsoka from death, then that will absolutely break Star Wars. That's not hyperbole; that's not an "over-geeking" reaction.

My hope is that the whole thing is just a vision that Ahsoka is having. But if it's the real Anakin from the past aiding an Ahsoka from his future, then the plot holes and lore implications from that would be widespread beyond repair. Anyone who cares enough about continuity integrity to actually think it through would have to bail at that point.

No writer or story group justification will ever undo the logic ramifications that would spill out of it because, frankly, I don't think they're smart enough to have understood all of the ramifications in advance. But because it's such a huge and obvious plot hole magnet, I have to believe that Filoni is at least aware enough not to go there. He's gotta have an alternative way to explain that interaction, and Ahsoka being in the WBW again.

Spoiler

So if Ashoka is really in the WBW and not a fall induced hallucination, and Anakin is there, does that mean that Anakin can leave the WBW? Would Filoni EVER do that?? Which Anakin are we looking at? The one who became Vader and is now a Force ghost or the one that has yet to become Vader?

Nah, it’s just him in the afterlife.

This. Just like some other deceased Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, etc.), Anakin can appear to people looking like he did when he was alive (i.e., as a "Force Ghost"). I think this episode just establishes that Jedi can also do this within the WBW.

 

[chrisstbh]

This. Just like some other deceased Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, etc.), Anakin can appear to people looking like he did when he was alive (i.e., as a "Force Ghost"). I think this episode just establishes that Jedi can also do this within the WBW.

I think the WBW is just where their consciousness resides when they don’t appear in the material world. Outside of physical space and time. I’d guess the WBW is The Force or at least a visual representation of it.

 

[HPGR_Thrawn]

The WBW could be the plane of the mystical energy field that connects all beings.

But yeah, I'm curious to see which version of him this is as well. If it is prequel, then when/how did he gain access to the WBW?

 

[davejames]

Yeah it is odd that they have him appearing in his ROTS outfit instead of the Jedi robes. Although that may just be because it's a more iconic look for him. Or maybe he thought it would be more familiar to Ahsoka.

 

[The Buffinator]

I think the WBW is just where their consciousness resides when they don’t appear in the material world. Outside of physical space and time. I’d guess the WBW is The Force or at least a visual representation of it.

Your guess is as good as mine. Per Obi-Wan the Force was “an energy field created by all living things” and “it binds the galaxy together”. Since the WBW resides outside of physical space and time it doesn’t seem to fit that description. But being something that only Jedi (in either their corporeal or non-corporeal form) can access works for me. Your mileage may vary lol.

 

[chrisstbh]

Yeah it is odd that they have him appearing in his ROTS outfit instead of the Jedi robes. Although that may just be because it's a more iconic look for him. Or maybe he thought it would be more familiar to Ahsoka.

That's the last time she saw him as Anakin.

Your guess is as good as mine. Per Obi-Wan the Force was “an energy field created by all living things” and “it binds the galaxy together”. Since the WBW resides outside of physical space and time it doesn’t seem to fit that description. But being something that only Jedi (in either their corporeal or non-corporeal form) can access works for me. Your mileage may vary lol.

It can still be that, but who knows. It's space magic.

 

[goatchumby]

The true betrayal in this episode.

 

[chrisstbh]

For anyone confused about the green smoke that hasn't watched the animated shows. Marrok is basically either a reanimated corpse or a being enhanced beyond their natural capabilities using Nightsister Magick.

In the case of reanimated corpses we saw these in The Clone Wars when Grievous attacks the Nightsisters of Dathomir, they basically use the corpses of dead Nightsisters to fight as their army. They have similar gren smoke eminating from them.

For enhancement we saw this with Mauls brothers, Savage. Through a ritural he was granted power going from a regular ol' Zabrak to a hulking brute. When impaled by Darth Sidious he starts leaking the Magick as he dies and his power drains away and he reverts back to his natural weaker form.

 

[ajp4mgs]

This. Just like some other deceased Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Luke, etc.), Anakin can appear to people looking like he did when he was alive (i.e., as a "Force Ghost"). I think this episode just establishes that Jedi can also do this within the WBW.

Spoiler

That would just create a different set of problems, though.

In the past, the WBW was shown to be a realm that needed to be opened to the living person. Ezra had to open a portal himself to access it, and Ahsoka had to be pulled in. If Ahsoka is *actually* in the WBW again, and not merely having a hallucination, then she would have needed to get pulled in. By whom? Or by what?

An afterlife version of Anakin is part of the Force itself. Whether it was afterlife Anakin, or the Force itself in a more general sense, there are so many problematic implications either way. To me, that'd be such a massive cheat that would also undermine any sense of free will implied in previous Star Wars.

What this would do is mean that no one's greater destiny can be avoided because "the Force" has bigger plans for everybody. Everything can be controlled or manipulated from another realm. If so, what have we been watching? Luke would've had no possible role other than to ultimately redeem his father if the Force deemed that to be his greater destiny. Everything would be predetermined. The same goes for every other Jedi involved in major events. If they are in peril, it's up to "The Force" as to whether or not to save them in service of their destiny. It'd be such a self-limiting direction to take the storytelling.

If they've brought the WBW back in this way, the plot logic is going to be (justifiably) torn to absolute shreds in such a way that you'd have to willfully ignore so many unavoidable consequences in order to stay invested in the stories. Anything other than a vision/hallucination is going to turn live-action SW upside down.

 

[chrisstbh]

That would just create a different set of problems, though.

In the past, the WBW was shown to be a realm that needed to be opened to the living person. Ezra had to open a portal himself to access it, and Ahsoka had to be pulled in. If Ahsoka is *actually* in the WBW again, and not merely having a hallucination, then she would have needed to get pulled in. By whom? Or by what?

I don't think she's actually physically in there, I think it's a force sensitive version of a near death experience - given that Anakin says he didn't expect to see her so soon it implies that he didn't expect her to have died yet.

An afterlife version of Anakin is part of the Force itself. Whether it was afterlife Anakin, or the Force itself in a more general sense, there are so many problematic implications either way. To me, that'd be such a massive cheat that would also undermine any sense of free will implied in previous Star Wars.

What this would do is mean that no one's greater destiny can be avoided because "the Force" has bigger plans for everybody. Everything can be controlled or manipulated from another realm. If so, what have we been watching? Luke would've had no possible role other than to ultimately redeem his father if the Force deemed that to be his greater destiny. Everything would be predetermined. The same goes for every other Jedi involved in major events. If they are in peril, it's up to "The Force" as to whether or not to save them in service of their destiny. It'd be such a self-limiting direction to take the storytelling.

It's not possible. You can't change the future, nor the past - and it seems you can only see the past. In Rebels if Ezra pulled Kanan out they all die and it creates a whole mess. Ahsoka got pulled out against Vader because it was meant to happen. From what was established in Rebels you cannot change events without dire consequences, this is why they had to stop Palpatine from acquiring it.

The will of the force has been the driving factor for everything for quite a while, it's not a new concept.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don't think she's actually physically in there, I think it's a force sensitive version of a near death experience - given that Anakin says he didn't expect to see her so soon it implies that he didn't expect her to have died yet.

It's not possible. You can't change the future, nor the past - and it seems you can only see the past. In Rebels if Ezra pulled Kanan out they all die and it creates a whole mess. Ahsoka got pulled out against Vader because it was meant to happen. From what was established in Rebels you cannot change events without dire consequences, this is why they had to stop Palpatine from acquiring it.

The will of the force has been the driving factor for everything for quite a while, it's not a new concept.

I appreciate how you're reconciling it, but just read your own words to see the contradictions being necessitated:

"Anakin says he didn't expect to see her so soon it implies that he didn't expect her to have died yet."

Is Ahsoka's death predetermined or not? Does afterlife Anakin (consciousness residing in the WBW) know when she's supposed to die? If so, how could he ever be "surprised" to see Ahsoka in the WBW at any time in her life if her destiny has been predetermined?

And I disagree about how "will of the Force" has been a part of SW before. It was never explicitly defined as a reality of predetermined *and unavoidable* destinies until the WBW plot device. If Ezra wasn't changing the past when he pulled Ahsoka out of the Vader duel, then everything is fatalistic in SW. But at least the animated series can be interpreted more loosely than live action.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Spoiler

I'm not watching this show.

And what's all this talk about "pulling out"...?

 

[chrisstbh]

I appreciate how you're reconciling it, but just read your own words to see the contradictions being necessitated:

"Anakin says he didn't expect to see her so soon it implies that he didn't expect her to have died yet."

Is Ahsoka's death predetermined or not? Does afterlife Anakin (consciousness residing in the WBW) know when she's supposed to die? If so, how could he ever be "surprised" to see Ahsoka in the WBW at any time in her life if her destiny has been predetermined?

Unknown, I assume we'll find out. Could be he's just teasing her as he often did. But just speculation for now.

And I disagree about how "will of the Force" has been a part of SW before. It was never explicitly defined as a reality of predetermined *and unavoidable* destinies until the WBW plot device. If Ezra wasn't changing the past when he pulled Ahsoka out of the Vader duel, then everything is fatalistic in SW. But at least the animated series can be interpreted more loosely than live action.

It's been a thing since "The Chosen One" and the "Prophecy" were introduced in the Prequels.

 

[ironwez20]

Hearing good things about this one. Should I renew my subscription

 

[a-dev]

Hearing good things about this one. Should I renew my subscription

Renew? After one apparently half-decent episode? I think you overestimate their chances....

 

[ajp4mgs]

It's been a thing since "The Chosen One" and the "Prophecy" were introduced in the Prequels.

Introduced, but then made vague as to its pertinence by having characters opine about the possibility that the prophecy of the Chosen One was not correct.

 

[ironwez20]

Renew? After one apparently half-decent episode? I think you overestimate their chances....

Hey look I’m just saying lmao Facebook, Twitter and here aren’t complaining about it like the others so to see no negativity surrounding a Star Wars project gives me optimism. But I agree the show ain’t over yet lol.

 

[The Buffinator]

Spoiler

That would just create a different set of problems, though.

In the past, the WBW was shown to be a realm that needed to be opened to the living person. Ezra had to open a portal himself to access it, and Ahsoka had to be pulled in. If Ahsoka is *actually* in the WBW again, and not merely having a hallucination, then she would have needed to get pulled in. By whom? Or by what?

An afterlife version of Anakin is part of the Force itself. Whether it was afterlife Anakin, or the Force itself in a more general sense, there are so many problematic implications either way. To me, that'd be such a massive cheat that would also undermine any sense of free will implied in previous Star Wars.

What this would do is mean that no one's greater destiny can be avoided because "the Force" has bigger plans for everybody. Everything can be controlled or manipulated from another realm. If so, what have we been watching? Luke would've had no possible role other than to ultimately redeem his father if the Force deemed that to be his greater destiny. Everything would be predetermined. The same goes for every other Jedi involved in major events. If they are in peril, it's up to "The Force" as to whether or not to save them in service of their destiny. It'd be such a self-limiting direction to take the storytelling.

If they've brought the WBW back in this way, the plot logic is going to be (justifiably) torn to absolute shreds in such a way that you'd have to willfully ignore so many unavoidable consequences in order to stay invested in the stories. Anything other than a vision/hallucination is going to turn live-action SW upside down.

Yeah, it's been too long since I watched the Rebels WBW episodes so I'm rather hazy on the admission requirements. Maybe since she was brought in once before she has an all access pass now? Regardless I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...

I appreciate how you're reconciling it, but just read your own words to see the contradictions being necessitated:

"Anakin says he didn't expect to see her so soon it implies that he didn't expect her to have died yet."

Is Ahsoka's death predetermined or not? Does afterlife Anakin (consciousness residing in the WBW) know when she's supposed to die? If so, how could he ever be "surprised" to see Ahsoka in the WBW at any time in her life if her destiny has been predetermined?

And I disagree about how "will of the Force" has been a part of SW before. It was never explicitly defined as a reality of predetermined *and unavoidable* destinies until the WBW plot device. If Ezra wasn't changing the past when he pulled Ahsoka out of the Vader duel, then everything is fatalistic in SW. But at least the animated series can be interpreted more loosely than live action.

More to the point, if the WBW exists outside of space and time and that's where Anakin is then he shouldn't be aware of the passage of time lol...