Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[jye4ever]

So with KK gone Disney will now all of a sudden just fully abandon agenda based cinema.

Is it really that simple.


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[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

What agenda did star wars have before kk got her dirty mits on it? All i know she turned a story about space wizards into a social statements such as all men are evil, and flawed and all women are good and righteous. There is no place for that **** in star wars. They already had a strong powerful female character in leia who stood right up to vader without any fear. All they needed to do was add more female characters not shove some socio political commentary down our throats in a movie it doesnt belong. If i wanted to see that id watch the movie Vice or **** or whatever the hell it was called

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

So with KK gone Disney will now all of a sudden just fully abandon agenda based cinema.

Is it really that simple.


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It can be if that's the way certain people want it. Disney can remove whatever they want from official cannon, they did just that when they bought the franchise.

 

[JAWS]

It can be if that's the way certain people want it. Disney can remove whatever they want from official cannon, they did just that when they bought the franchise.

Yeah but we all know that books really dont count in the first place

The films do.. But the books, comics, and video games.. Nah.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Yeah but we all know that books really dont count in the first place

The films do.. But the books, comics, and video games.. Nah.

They did it with ahsoka already sure she was part of the animated clone wars then rebels but she was killed then her death was retconed using that same world between worlds device to bring her back. Now she will be in mandolorian season 2 and there are talks she will get either her own spinoff live action show or a movie so there is already a precedence for it. Nobody seems to care they used the world between worlds device to do this most are just excited to see her in live action. Hell they are even doing it with boba fett. I hold the same would be true if they use it to retcon the movies. Since the emperor basically caused all of the events that occurrd in the st, removing him from the equation completely erases the events of the st confining it to its own story that exist in a seperate universe or realm. Sure it would bother some people at first mainly the st lovers but in the long run it could get people excited for star wars again. Right now nobody gives a rats ass and thats a huge problem for disney. It has nowhere to go from here, nobody even cares to see another star wars movie released by them. Star wars world was a complete flop because it focuaed on the st, had it been designed after degobah or tatoonie it would have been a huge hit. Disney realizes they have a huge problem right now and honestly this is the best way to fix it.

 

[JAWS]

They did it with ahsoka already sure she was part of the animated clone wars then rebels but she was killed then her death was retconed using that same world between worlds device to bring her back. Now she will be in mandolorian season 2 and there are talks she will get either her own spinoff live action show or a movie so there is already a precedence for it. Nobody seems to care they used the world between worlds device to do this most are just excited to see her in live action. Hell they are even doing it with boba fett. I hold the same would be true if they use it to retcon the movies. Since the emperor basically caused all of the events that occurrd in the st, removing him from the equation completely erases the events of the st confining it to its own story that exist in a seperate universe or realm. Sure it would bother some people at first mainly the st lovers but in the long run it could get people excited for star wars again. Right now nobody gives a rats ass and thats a huge problem for disney. It has nowhere to go from here, nobody even cares to see another star wars movie released by them. Star wars world was a complete flop because it focuaed on the st, had it been designed after degobah or tatoonie it would have been a huge hit. Disney realizes they have a huge problem right now and honestly this is the best way to fix it.

Make a great film.... And they will come.


No Alternate realities needed.

 

[ironwez20]

Oh I don't know.. George sold off his films because of the massive backlash he had.

I agree that people came around to the PT a bit more. I think some of that had to do with a lot of blockbuster films story quality taking a nose dive. Its much easier to accept ROTS when Transformers 2,3,4,5, the Mummy Movies, Fast and Furious franchise, and other dreck are out there.

As for the ST being a failure.

Adjusted for inflation

#11 TFA beats out #19 TPM

#44 TLJ beats out #70 ROTS

#88 TROS beats out #100 TCW

That's the ST $2,161,601,843 to the PT $1,903,095,724




I don't post these numbers because I am saying that its proof that the ST was better then the PT.. I just don't think that the ST was this huge failure.

I do think that expectations went way up after TFA was the number one movie of all time (not adjusted for inflation) and TLJ hurt any chance of TROS making much bigger bank.

IMO all the issues with the ST begin and end at TLJ. TROS really didn't have a chance after that. Even if the story was to everyone's liking. I really think it was TLJ that killed everyone's excitement. I think that had TLJ been a decent film, TROS would have been much bigger and more well liked even if it was the same exact movie with the exact same problems (See ROTJ)

The drop from TFA at #11 to TROS to #88 really shows that. The same could be said for TPM having a bad impact on the next two film of the PT. going from #19 to TCW #100. Yes ROTS went back up to #70 but that is not even that big of a jump being that it was the film that was finally giving us what we wanted to see and the return of Vader.



As for the lack of interest in the ST.

I really don't know much about that. I don't collect ST or PT items. I don't read the books or comics. Is Disney even allowing people to write books right now?? That could be a reason that books are not flying off the shelves? IDK. Comic sales are down all over the place.

As for Halloween costumes.. LOL I don't see anything except OT.. And I see very little of that.

There is just too much competition for kids attention these days.

Time will tell if young kids today hold up the ST like the young kids of yesterday now hold up the PT. I don't know if they will... Do girls hold onto or collect as much as boys do??? Having the ST center around a female hero in a series that mostly has the male market being the ones who continue to buy and collect does not bode well.


The massive hate for the ST seems to come from those who grew up with and loved the PT.. Much like the hate of the PT came from those that loved the OT.

I would say that OT fans seem to be overall unhappy with both. Even I only really enjoyed TROS and that is because it was the one film in the ST that embraced being a fun adventure. It was problematic for sure but as I have always said so are most SW movies in the saga accept for the first two films.

Hell I am even a grumpy bastard when it comes to The Mandalorian.. I think its average at best so far and its popularity revolves solely around Baby Yoda.


IMO the best thing to come out of any of the post SW films was parts of TPM, the last 30 min of RO, Ben Solo/Kylo Ren and many parts of TROS, and TCW tv show.

Everything else is very Meh.


But its all been a very a big money maker.


Well except for Solo

Jaws...... my buddy jaws. Don?t bring numbers into it. Star Wars is going to make money. But with each film it went lower and lower. Transformers made bank and it?s all but forgotten. Remember those movies? No one talks about them anymore. Same with ST. You can say the PT sucks all you want but people still talk about it. It?s still popular. ST ain?t. It?s dead. Sorry to say.

Also it?s OT fans who hate the ST. Probably cause they messed up the characters. As you can see. The only people who like the films are a handful and only three people talk about constantly in this thread lol

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Yeah but we all know that books really dont count in the first place

The films do.. But the books, comics, and video games.. Nah.

Different for sure. Comparing literature and film is apples to effing bowling balls. But what is more damaging, a book that only a few thousand people know exists, or a movie trilogy despised by about 75% of your paying customers. So the point still stands, if the right folks want something gone, it's gone.

 

[Skywalker(OG)Kush]

Make a great film.... And they will come.


No Alternate realities needed.

After destroying the sequel trilogy all good will was lost. If they admit thier mistakes and redo it they can salvage the universe. I dont believe they can just make a new star wars film set in the old republic and its a garanteed success. People dont trust disney with the property anymore, thier idea of what star is. Atleast under kk, doesnt jive with the majority of star wars fans. Not to mention anything they attempt now with kk at the helm will have negativity attached to it before it even starts. Kk has no clue how to make a good star wars movie, you honestly think any new movie they put out under her watch is going to be some revelation. Star wars branding is ****ed the only way to fix it is to admit mistakes and just ****ing redue it. Its the only way they will get people to believe they learned from past mistakes, are trying too make good Star wars films again and/or have righted the ship going forward

 

[JAWS]

Jaws...... my buddy jaws. Don?t bring numbers into it. Star Wars is going to make money. But with each film it went lower and lower. Transformers made bank and it?s all but forgotten. Remember those movies? No one talks about them anymore. Same with ST. You can say the PT sucks all you want but people still talk about it. It?s still popular. ST ain?t. It?s dead. Sorry to say.

Also it?s OT fans who hate the ST. Probably cause they messed up the characters. As you can see. The only people who like the films are a handful and only three people talk about constantly in this thread lol

Ummmmm I noticed that it was not the usual three that kept this thread alive for the past few weeks


I know I know.. Only bring in numbers if it suits your argument

After the PT was all done... Things got quiet also.... All the high end collectibles were still popular as much as a niche hobby can be.. But Its not like the PT was popular at all when each film got released. I did not even hate the release of each film but I remember the Comingsoon.net threads and the bitching that went on there.

In fact I did not start hearing people sing the praises of the PT until the ST started coming out. Hell I was one of them Because I recognized that those films at least had more imagination the TFA and TLJ.. The Nostalgia Critic even did a video on the phenomenon. I know the movies had its supporters but I will say it again.. A lot of those fans just finally grew up and could use a computer.

Also while the ROTS did make more then AOTC it did not come close to TPM and lets face it.. it should have been bigger then it was... But TPM and AOTC hurt that film also.. I mean it was the return of Vader for god sake.. But a subpar movie and subpar earlier movies hurt its box office..


I agree that SW seems to be dead now.. Of course Disney is not doing much with it either. Who knows if a Animated series about the future of Rey would do well? I would watch it and if it was good I would continue with it just like i did TCW.. But Disney got scared by the backlash of TLJ and the poor outing of Solo...

Its probably not a bad thing.. A movie every year may have been a bit much.. Especially with KK in charge..

I am happy that she may be on her way out.. Cant stand her and how much she has bungled this whole thing.. Even though I liked RO and TROS I know that the ST most likely could have and would have been better if it was in the hands of JF or KF.



My point about the numbers is that the ST was plenty popular... But TLJ really divided people and it was that film alone IMO that killed peoples interest in SW and I 100% get it.. After the subpar PT and TFA and TLJ I was all but done with SW.. Even the OT lost its luster

But I am now repeating myself. But I can understand why people may have checked out of Star Wars if they did not like the TROS and were not fans of the other two.. the ST is a cluster **** because of the lack of a planned out story. I just happened to be lucky and found enjoyment our of the last film.

We all agree that RO was a pretty solid film.. I think most would agree that its better then the ST and PT (except for some ROTS fans) but I am not sure how well anything sells there either.. Which goes along with my "should Disney be trying to sell this world to the girls if its the boys who by all the toys? "

But as pointed out The Mandalorian (aka the baby yoda chronicles) is proving that people still like Star Wars.. Even average SW... If they made another quality stand alone film like RO and had it take place around the time of the OT or between the PT and OT or between the OT and ST then I think it would be Huge..

ST is not popular now.. It may never be... But it didn't kill SW.. If Disney would just make a quality film it would do great I would put money on that one.

 

[Khev]

Very true please forgive a-dev he is a child of the 90s



That?s ok if you don?t know it.

I mean Khev would know it.

But that?s ok don?t feel bad.

Super Battle Droids

Yep, lol.

 

[JAWS]

Different for sure. Comparing literature and film is apples to effing bowling balls. But what is more damaging, a book that only a few thousand people know exists, or a movie trilogy despised by about 75% of your paying customers. So the point still stands, if the right folks want something gone, it's gone.

I think several pages back I pointed out in poll after poll that the ST films did fairly well among the Fans.. So I think your 75% is a but overblown..

In fact its AOTC and TPM that seemed to always rank at the bottom two with all three ST films beating them out. Ony ROTS seems to do well in the PT..

So I would say your 75% is off a tad. I would say there is a good 30 to 35 % who really really really really really really really HAte it

I was almost there with you Thank God for TROS

After destroying the sequel trilogy all good will was lost. If they admit thier mistakes and redo it they can salvage the universe. I dont believe they can just make a new star wars film set in the old republic and its a garanteed success. People dont trust disney with the property anymore, thier idea of what star is doesnt jive with the majority of star wars fans. Not to mention anything they attempt now with kk at the helm will have negativity attached to it before it even starts. Kk has no clue how to make a good star wars movie, you honestly think any new movie they put out under her watch is going to be some revelation. Star wars branding is ****ed the only way to fix it is to admit mistakes and just ****ing redue it. Its the only way they will get people to believe they learned from past mistakes, are trying too make good Star wars films again and/or have righted the ship going forward

I just don't agree with you here.

The Mandalorian seems to be very popular and more then half the episodes are not even all that good IMO.

Making an alternate reality would work only in the sense that if you wait long enough people will still flock to see a new Star Wars movie..

I mean TFA was HUGE and that is another example of meh Star Wars being big with the fans..

Just make a good movie. That's all.

Making a Alternate reality will just confuse the average movie goer.

I just don't see how ignoring the ST will do anything when it comes to making other films that take place after the OT.. You are not going to get the original actors back so forget about it. Make a story that is original and takes place in another part of the galaxy or something..


Hell I really don't care about anything that takes place before the PT or After the ST so just make films in that sweet spot that is between the PT and the ST and dnt leave it


And no way on earth do the SW fans not go see a quality looking original SW film because the have been hurt by the ST. I mena by all means get rid of KK and let JJ and KF make the next one.. Asses will be in the seats.

 

[JAWS]

Yep, lol.

Took me a while to remember when the SBD were even in that show..

How come they didn't talk with funny voices when killing Mando's people

 

[JAWS]

For the record.. I really could care less if they retconed the ST.

One of my other fav franchises is all over the place also (ALIEN)

So I can easily make up and watch all those films and see them with different timelines and view some of them as fan fiction.

If they can make quality films I will be good with it..

But that 35 % that really really really really really really hate the ST (hell even make it 75%) will go see the next star wars movie regardless as loinig as KK is not attached to it.. That is really all that needs to be done for the haters.

Hell I say they go see the next one even if KK was involved as long as its good with no agenda.. Just not sure she can do it.

 

[jye4ever]

Damn JAWS is killing it with one great post after another.

You guys are being slayed lol

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[TheDucky]

It?s absolutely hilarious to see the same three, who defended the ST to the moon and back, all in unison say they don?t care about their precious ST being done for.

Y?all trying to put on a strong face, but we all know you guys are lookin like this

ST IS BEING RETCONNED

 

[jye4ever]

Took me a while to remember when the SBD were even in that show..

How come they didn't talk with funny voices when killing Mando's people

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[jye4ever]

It?s absolutely hilarious to see the same three, who defended the ST to the moon and back, all in unison say they don?t care about their precious ST being done for.

Y?all trying to put on a strong face, but we all know you guys are lookin like this

ST IS BEING RETCONNED

Doomcock hmmm

Isn?t doomcock what happens to you when Brian Singer invites you over to go swimming



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[JAWS]

It?s absolutely hilarious to see the same three, who defended the ST to the moon and back, all in unison say they don?t care about their precious ST being done for.

Y?all trying to put on a strong face, but we all know you guys are lookin like this

ST IS BEING RETCONNED

Obviously you have not been paying attention

Doomcock hmmm

Isn?t doomcock what happens to you when Brian Singer invites you over to go swimming



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[Khev]

Obviously you have not been paying attention

No kidding. I let go of caring about what's "officially canon" as soon as George started screwing with the OT (which I'm guessing is before TheDucky was even born. ) Like I'm all of a sudden gonna throw a fit if they retcon the ST, lol. They can do whatever they want as long as I get to watch the Saga that *I* want on physical disc.