Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

[ironwez20]

SW is greater than the MCU

Not anymore

 

[ironwez20]

See this wall of text above? I didn't read it. But I respect it.

I guarantee you put more thought, logic, and emotion into that post than any of the writers of any of the sequel films. They simply don't care. They don't want "deep." They don't want audiences to think. They wants laser blasts and lightsaber hums and droids running around. It's what most of the audience wants to.

I commend your passion, but just like our old pal SNIKT, you're giving these people way, way too much credit and have more passion for the lore in your left pinky than they do in their whole bodies. This is a product. A cold, fabricated product, designed like a color-by-number to check off certain boxes.

If you love the product, really love it, I'm happy for you. I don't wanna **** on someone for honestly enjoying something. I reserve my ******** on people for the fakers. The people so desperate to signal to the world that they "care" so deeply, that they have emotion (they don't) that they make those cringe-inducing videos that literally made my balls pull up into my body.

I'm in this thread out of morbid curiosity, but I know there are are some of you that enjoy this stuff, deeply. And I mean it, I'm not trying to be snarky ******* like usual: I hope you love this movie and it's everything you want it to be.

Same. I come into this thread out of curiosity. It’s usually the same guys talking about how the ST wasn’t that bad.

It reminds me of transformers 2007, when the film was being released you had loads of fans talking about it and couldn’t wait for it. After the film came out only a handful of fans stayed and cared about the film franchise .

I honestly don’t know what the hell anybody sees in characters like Rey and Finn . Never in Star Wars media have I ever been so disinterested in where the character goes next. The hot toys figures are basically on clearance at bbts.

Star Wars as a whole will always be broken sadly. To the fans anyway

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

SW is greater than the MCU

This set of movies ended the Star Wars rein

 

[Otomofan]

Never in Star Wars media have I ever been so disinterested in where the character goes next. The hot toys figures are basically on clearance at bbts.

Star Wars as a whole will always be broken sadly. To the fans anyway

You and me are brothers from different mothers. The only way I could muster more than a stifled yawn from Rey is if she went full on Emperor-level Sith lord and slaughter millions, and then became a hideous half machine thing uglier than Vader. Nobody at Lucasfilm would even DREAM of such a thing. They'd probably report to the Re-KK-education Center for even allowing a thought like that to glimmer...you know...A nice glass of warm milk, a little nap, and a Total Frontal Lobotomy.

 

[jye4ever]

Response to AEG and the MCU in general is clear proof that the MCU has been passed the cultural baton from SW.

That being said SW is most definately not dead it’s just not as culturally significant as it once was and that’s fine because a 42 year run is nothing to be ashamed of.

I got news for the SW haters no matter who wins the MCU/SW culture battle Disney still wins the war!

What Disney lost on Solo they made it back in End Game’s first hour of box office returns lol

 

[DarkChocobi]

 

[Prime Clone]

I honestly don’t know what the hell anybody sees in characters like Rey and Finn . Never in Star Wars media have I ever been so disinterested in where the character goes next.

Must admit that's a problem. Finn was even relegated to a secondary character in TLJ.

The ST might be better made than the PT but I'm not as invested in the characters.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I couldn't give two turds about whether or not the MCU has passed SW for cultural relevancy. I've been around long enough to see many versions of "the death of Star Wars." I remember being a kid at Kay-Bee toy store (probably 1985) and seeing tons of SW figures being marked down to the point of practically being free because no one was buying them. I remember the absolute joke that SW became after TPM, when people couldn't figure out which ethnic accent to impersonate (Jar Jar, Gunray, or Watto) in order to ridicule what Lucas was turning the franchise into.

Through all of that, and all of the TLJ hate, there are still going to be lines out the door for Star Wars experiences at Disneyland and Disney World. And TROS will make a crapload of money too (no matter how much less than AEG), and attitudes will change in both directions. But SW won't die anytime soon. Been there, done that.

Just look at the awesome movie franchises that have still been trying to cling to relevancy: Alien(s), Predator, Terminator, Rambo, and plenty more. They all started after SW, and they were all more relevant than SW at one time or another. But, would you bet on the next movie in any of those franchises making more money than TROS? Would you bet on any of those to be more talked about?

The PT made tons of money even though the films were critically panned. They made money without Hamill's Luke, Ford's Han, and Fisher's Leia. Hell, a movie about stealing the plans to the Death Star - with main characters the average person on the street can't even come close to naming - made over $1 billion! If the MCU can keep ringing the register the same way without RDJ, Evans, ScarJo, and co., good for them. I'll be curious to see what happens. But I'm willing to bet that SW will still keep ringing the register.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I can give you that, but I think where I really stumble is the concept of 'redemption'. It becomes a philosophical question -- i.e. is there a point of no return? I believe that sometimes, people can change, but if you are Darth Vader you have:

1. Helped murder mentors and allies (e.g. Mace),
2. Murdered children (Tuskens and Jedi trainees),
3. Killed the defenseless (Non-combatant Tuskens, Separatist leaders; though it may be argued the Seps were evil, albeit non-combatants),
4. Actively supported a tyrannical and murderous fascist regime,
5. Stood by as party to planetary genocide (Alderaan at the very least, other planets by different means depending on the continuity) --
6. Murdered your own loyal subordinates,
7. Maimed your son.
8. Tortured and summarily executed many (presumably) while ordering the torture and execution of many others.

So he does one good thing and gets to be a happy force ghost?

There is a precedent for the *idea* of the most reprehensible amongst us coming back from it, in both secular and religious teachings, but it's a vexing question nonetheless.

Kylo is as 'bad' as Vader regardless that he wrings his hands and whines about it while he goes about murdering; he was also party to an even greater multi-planetary genocide and murdered his own father in cold blood, so any of his inner conflicts notwithstanding, he's already committed crimes on a grander scale than Grandpa ever managed.

How do you come back from that? Maybe alter course but 'redemption' seems like a tall order.

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree with you philosophically about one redemptive act not being enough to erase tons of mayhem before that. And you're right that Kylo has done worse than Vader, and that neither one should get full redemption. But Lucas tried to draw a distinction so that the redemption of Anakin Skywalker doesn't get confused as being the redemption of Darth Vader. As Obi-Wan put it: "He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader."

It's up to you as a fan whether or not you accept that duality. With the corruption that Palpatine coordinated from the very beginning, you can look at it as "switching off" the Anakin persona, and "rebooting" him as Darth Vader (even if that transition was flimsily established and poorly executed in the PT).

If you do accept the duality, then Darth Vader was not redeemed; Darth Vader was not absolved of *his* crimes; and Darth Vader did not get a happy Force ghost. It was Anakin Skywalker who was switched back on after 20 years, was redeemed, and got the happy Force ghost. From a certain point of view, of course.

 

[ZE_501]

[...] If you do accept the duality, then Darth Vader was not redeemed; Darth Vader was not absolved of *his* crimes; and Darth Vader did not get a happy Force ghost. It was Anakin Skywalker who was switched back on after 20 years, was redeemed, and got the happy Force ghost. From a certain point of view, of course.

Sounds like...a lotta simple tricks and nonsense.

 

[Reefer Shark]

Im very excited about TROS, but wayyyy more excited for the Mandolorian personally.

On the whole Star Wars vs MCU thing, my take on it is more along the lines that Star Wars has grown into something much bigger than a current entertainment phenomenon and cant really be compared as such. It took a back seat to quite a few other trilogies, as it definitely has to the MCU recently, but has always come back to the surface and will always have it's core audience no matter what the current hot franchise is.

I love the MCU and I hope it keeps up the excellent quality. Obviously these movies are made with a lot of passion, and it shows. Only time will tell if it's going to go the distance Star Wars has, but in the hands of Disney I'm sure it has a good chance!

 

[xipotec]

I couldn't give two turds about whether or not the MCU has passed SW for cultural relevancy. I've been around long enough to see many versions of "the death of Star Wars." I remember being a kid at Kay-Bee toy store (probably 1985) and seeing tons of SW figures being marked down to the point of practically being free because no one was buying them. I remember the absolute joke that SW became after TPM, when people couldn't figure out which ethnic accent to impersonate (Jar Jar, Gunray, or Watto) in order to ridicule what Lucas was turning the franchise into.

Through all of that, and all of the TLJ hate, there are still going to be lines out the door for Star Wars experiences at Disneyland and Disney World. And TROS will make a crapload of money too (no matter how much less than AEG), and attitudes will change in both directions. But SW won't die anytime soon. Been there, done that.

Just look at the awesome movie franchises that have still been trying to cling to relevancy: Alien(s), Predator, Terminator, Rambo, and plenty more. They all started after SW, and they were all more relevant than SW at one time or another. But, would you bet on the next movie in any of those franchises making more money than TROS? Would you bet on any of those to be more talked about?

The PT made tons of money even though the films were critically panned. They made money without Hamill's Luke, Ford's Han, and Fisher's Leia. Hell, a movie about stealing the plans to the Death Star - with main characters the average person on the street can't even come close to naming - made over $1 billion! If the MCU can keep ringing the register the same way without RDJ, Evans, ScarJo, and co., good for them. I'll be curious to see what happens. But I'm willing to bet that SW will still keep ringing the register.

I remember the death of SW in the late 80’s.

I got a Shuttle and just about every play set, many many figures (including POTF Amanaman) from ROTJ for a few dollars.....


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Prime Clone]

It must get KK's goat that the most interesting/popular character in the ST is the evil whiny white male.

 

[ArtDamage]

It must get KK's goat that the most interesting/popular character in the ST is the evil whiny white male.

I mean honestly he's the only character with any real flaws and conflict. Stuff doesn't just magically work out for him the way it does for Rey, Finn, or even Poe. He makes mistakes and it makes him appear more human. The whole trilogy could have been about him solely, but then it would have read as Luke 2.0.

 

[TaliBane]

The PT made tons of money even though the films were critically panned. They made money without Hamill's Luke, Ford's Han, and Fisher's Leia. Hell, a movie about stealing the plans to the Death Star - with main characters the average person on the street can't even come close to naming - made over $1 billion! If the MCU can keep ringing the register the same way without RDJ, Evans, ScarJo, and co., good for them. I'll be curious to see what happens. But I'm willing to bet that SW will still keep ringing the register.

To be fair, the main characters of RO were The Death Star, Darth Vader and CGI Tarkin.

But yeah - inflation adjusted, even AOTC made over a billion worldwide, so SOMEBODY gave tons of money to the PT.

If you do accept the duality, then Darth Vader was not redeemed; Darth Vader was not absolved of *his* crimes; and Darth Vader did not get a happy Force ghost. It was Anakin Skywalker who was switched back on after 20 years, was redeemed, and got the happy Force ghost. From a certain point of view, of course.

You just made a bunch of serial killers' day with that one.

 

[ajp4mgs]

You just made a bunch of serial killers' day with that one.

I'm not a lawyer, but if the Ed Norton movie "Primal Fear" is any indication, the split-personality defense would actually hold up in court (in terms of getting institutionalized instead of imprisoned). So in theory, if the institutionalized killer goes on to get "cured," he would be "redeemed" of his crime(s). I'm just sayin' . . .

I guess O.J. didn't need it, but he could've tried: it wasn't "Orenthal James Simpson" who killed Nicole and Ron, it was "The Juice."

 

[TaliBane]

I'm not a lawyer, but if the Ed Norton movie "Primal Fear" is any indication, the split-personality defense would actually hold up in court (in terms of getting institutionalized instead of imprisoned). So in theory, if the institutionalized killer goes on to get "cured," he would be "redeemed" of his crime(s). I'm just sayin' . . .

I guess O.J. didn't need it, but he could've tried: it wasn't "Orenthal James Simpson" who killed Nicole and Ron, it was "The Juice."

OJ should have gotten up, looked over everyone in the courtroom and watching on TV and said "we ALL killed Nicole..." and we probably would have seen some validity to it.

 

[Prime Clone]

Speaking of O.J., could they have chosen a less physically similar actor to play him than Cuba Gooding Jr? All he had was the race.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Speaking of O.J., could they have chosen a less physically similar actor to play him than Cuba Gooding Jr? All he had was the race.

Idris said no.









Samuel L Jackson said: Do I look like mother-****ing Orenthal James Simpson to you, mother-****er?

 

[a-dev]

Jye posting in the Avengers Endgame thread? I take it he has seen it....