Star Wars On Blu-Ray

Collector Freaks Forum

Help Support Collector Freaks Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The prequels were quite clear that the Dark Side was clouding the Jedis' vision. Enough so that they even contemplated making an announcement about it in the Senate.

*cough*cop-out*cough*

Yeah. I know about lazy writing to explain why super awesome warrior monks allowed themselves to be hunted down and killed.

How many were they? Thousands? Millions... against what... 1 Sith... WOW... how can he EVER be defeated, he's toooooooo powerful.
 
Last edited:
Did you watch ep5 at all? Yoda had apparently had a little less grape juice + in that movie as he could see pretty clearly what Luke was doing and what he was thinking.

So... sure... Anakin was a Jedi... and Luke was not at that point. But if he was blocking Yoda... then he must have asked himself that fundamental question... WOW... what is that kid hiding of evil doings. Man the Jedi are ******* in the PT.

Do you really need these things spoon fed to you?

It is probably easier to keep an eye on Luke since he was the only Jedi in the universe as opposed to receiving impressions from the force being mucked up by thousands of Jedi. It would be like trying to keep your eyes on schools of fish in the ocean as opposed to one fish in a glass bowl. These are not difficult leaps of logic. At this point you seem to be reaching for any excuse to be a hater. :wave
 
Spoon fed? No, not really. But as you said... there were thousands of Jedi and not ONE of them had any sense to figure out what was going on around them. Heck... Palpatine had to basically spill his beans to Anakin before they learned the truth that he was that evil mastermind they were looking for controlling everything.

Reaching... maybe... if I am just to accept fundamental flaws of logic of consistency in the rules already established. Tell me... one man against thousands... do you accept and find it at all plausible for him to cloud everything and not be some supernatural fluke of superiority and how can you then accept that a barely trained farmboy can ever defeat him... heck... how can Yoda and Obi-Wan even THINK he has any kind of chance, knowing what they know how they couldn't stop him as fully trained Jedi. It's just so mindbogglingly unreasonable contradictory writing I've ever been exposed to.


And regarding OT Yoda and PT Yoda... yup... they look the same.
yodas2.jpg
 
Luke didn't defeat Palpatine. Again, you seem to adjust the facts of the story to suit your POV.

Actually watch the movie before you comment and tell me who defeated the emperor.
 
Like different cartoonists. They both draw the image, but that doesn't mean cartoonist B is as good as cartoonist A. Just seems there's an awful lot of B cartoonists doing this CGI stuff. Where did all the A's go?

The dinosaurs in JP1 work for the single fact that Phil Tippet supervised their actions and movements. In the following movies he wasn't there to punch the animators to make them look and act like animals, which is why they act more like standard movie monsters.

Send the animators to acting school so they know the do's and don'ts of character movement and actions.


Well, again, considering that stop-motion animation wasn't as good, or as complex, there's no reason to believe that somehow the animators from back then are so much more skilled than the computer animators of today. And especially considering that most animation today starts with real motion capture data.

You can't really argue against it since the facts are there. If you think the animation back then was better, you're simply wrong.
 
Luke didn't defeat Palpatine. Again, you seem to adjust the facts of the story to suit your POV.

Actually watch the movie before you comment and tell me who defeated the emperor.

Yes, I watched it. And with the way things happened in the PT... Obi-Wan and Yoda basically sent him to the Emperor to get killed. But why did they do that? They didn't believe there was good in Anakin anymore... so it wasn't to get Luke to get him to see reason, so they must have thought he actually stood a chance. Luke only lucked out because he disobeyed Obi-Wan and Yoda's advice. But they made the emperor so stupendously superior in the PT that if you really think about it... fully trained Jedi's couldn't stop him... even one who'd studied the art of Jedi for 800+ years... and Yoda and Ben call Luke - a partly trained fledgling - their last hope... or even consider Leia as a last hope.

Can't you see the fundamentally flawed writing in those concepts? Which is another reason why the PT falls flat on its face.
 
You can't really argue against it since the facts are there. If you think the animation back then was better, you're simply wrong.

Facts you say? Facts or opinion? Sure, stop motion may not be as smooth moving as CGI, but is that really the only parameter you judge stop motion and CGI by? Better? I'm not seeing it.
 
And regarding OT Yoda and PT Yoda... yup... they look the same.
yodas2.jpg


That makes you seem really stupid. Let's see, it's the CG face photoshopped on top of the puppet, the face isn't even in the same pose, of course it looks different. Not to mention the character is 20 years younger. And they're not supposed to look exactly the same anyways. The CG version looks more realistic though--the real CG version, not this crappy photoshop you posted
 
Facts you say? Facts or opinion? Sure, stop motion may not be as smooth moving as CGI, but is that really the only parameter you judge stop motion and CGI by? Better? I'm not seeing it.

FACT: CG animation allows artists to better compare animation to real-life examples

FACT: Motion capture allows CG animators to use real animation from real people, including facial animation

FACT: CG animators have tools that allow them to apply real-world physics to their animations.

FACT: CG animators can easily go back and fix a mistake or change something, for things like stop-motion you have to redo the whole thing, for miniatures you have to film the whole thing over again.

I'll throw that other fact for you since you also brought that up--CG animation allows you to have smoother animation with correct motion blur and depth of field.

So, there are the facts--real reasons why CG animation is better.
 
Facial structure, color, movements. You say it looks more realistic. I say it doesn't. Your opinion vs mine. And we are both right. You know why? Because that's the beauty of opinion. I see nothing realistic in anything to do with the PT digital Yoda. The image was just a crude example to show how the two doesn't look like the same character. If you wanna get personal and call me stupid, then that's your prerogative. Doesn't bother me one iota. Says more about you than me.
 
FACT: CG animation allows artists to better compare animation to real-life examples

FACT: Motion capture allows CG animators to use real animation from real people, including facial animation

FACT: CG animators have tools that allow them to apply real-world physics to their animations.

FACT: CG animators can easily go back and fix a mistake or change something, for things like stop-motion you have to redo the whole thing, for miniatures you have to film the whole thing over again.

I'll throw that other fact for you since you also brought that up--CG animation allows you to have smoother animation with correct motion blur and depth of field.

So, there are the facts--real reasons why CG animation is better.

Then why does it look so fake if they have all those superior tools to stop motion?
 
Facial structure, color, movements. You say it looks more realistic. I say it doesn't. Your opinion vs mine. And we are both right. You know why? Because that's the beauty of opinion. I see nothing realistic in anything to do with the PT digital Yoda. The image was just a crude example to show how the two doesn't look like the same character. If you wanna get personal and call me stupid, then that's your prerogative. Doesn't bother me one iota. Says more about you than me.

There's no opinion, it's facts, there's data to support it. You have nothing to support your "opinion"

You're just being an OT elitist and you really need to get over yourself. You sound so stupid when you say such things.

Anyways, I'm going to stop feeding the Troll
 
I'm ok with OT elitists. But if they don't know anything fundamental about the damn plot, I don't have time for them. :lol
 
I'm ok with OT elitists. But if they don't know anything fundamental about the damn plot, I don't have time for them. :lol

So you are perfectly fine with that Obi-Wan and Yoda basically train Luke on a suicide mission or worse, that he could do like his father and join the Emperor, because the way it is set up in the PT, there's no way Luke had any sort of chance against Palpatine.

I'm just wondering how you think that's good writing. I'm rather baffled, really. I'm sorry if I am perhaps not making my point clear enough and I certainly don't want to sound like a troll. I just find it fascinating that people can just accept that Palpatine was made into such a super powerful, unstoppable being and the Jedi into fumbling idiots and then have any reason to believe that Luke could actually have a chance at all. Guess I'm just not up on the PT, as much, to see where the logic lies in that development to justify that outcome. Sure it was eventually Vader that destroyed the Emperor... but Obi-Wan and Yoda put their faith in Luke, not Anakin.

I don't get it, so someone please explain it to me then.
 
I thought it was clear that Luke had the potential to be more powerful than Palpatine. In reality it was Anakin who was more powerful and Palpatine even told Yoda that Anakin would be more powerful than either of them in ROTS. Then in the OT Palpatine is obviously concerned with Anakin's offspring. Obi Wan explains to Luke that they had to hide the twins because they feared the children would have the same power in the force and obviously did not want Palpatine to get to them.

I am not understanding your angle on Luke being some whimpy kid sent to defeat the Emperor. Whom yeah kicks some real but in the PT and basically serves Yoda and the Jedi. Again Anakin's blood test from TPM said he was off the charts and surpassed Yoda's midichlorian count so it is Anakin and his offspring who are the super badasses.

Another thing that throws people off about Anakin/Vader is something Lucas explained in interviews is that Anakin lost a lot of his force abilities after he ended up in his iron lung. Seeing as how the force is an organic thing and Vader had become more machine than man. This also left Palpatine a bit out in the cold as he had high expectations for his new apprentice but he knows Vader is now broken and the prospect of another with Anakin's power is a fearful prospect for the Emperor but also a wonderful chance to replace his broken apprentice with some one still intact and with the power he once hoped to control.

Yoda and Obi messed up anyways in the OT. They had written Anakin off and it was Luke who defied them and said he could tell there was still good in his father and he was right. Thanks to him being right and doing things his way it was Anakin who did ultimately do the Emperor in.
 
Last edited:
According to the 1983 casting of Sebastian Shaw as Anakin Skywalker, this is how he really would have looked during the prequels:

Real_anakin_and_obi-wan_.jpg


Fascinating to imagine. Someone should photoshop a young Alec Guiness head on a Jedi body now.

Prior to the prequils, I always envisioned Anakin as a thirty something, with a great deal of intelligence and presence. That's something that should have been apparent prior to him becoming Vader. The tragedy of him being lured to the dark side being that he had so much more potential, but ultimately was drawn by power and vengance. Instead, we get a whiny little brat played by one of the most annoying actors I can think of. I'd dare say, the dark side actually improved that characters demeanor. At least he quit whining, and pissing about and focused on something. The dark side was the best thing to ever happen to Anakin Skywalker. He ceased being Anakin, and became Darth Vader, and thank God for it.

Anakin should never have been portrayed as a self-absorbed , immature twit. He should have been mature, wise and intelligent, and a generally good man. Show he has a good heart, and a desire to learn and grow. The prequel Anakin never did seem like a good man, so I never felt the tragedy of his passing to the dark side. It was an awkwardly good fit for him really. However, if it had been like Lord of the Rings, with the dark side being the one ring, he could have morphed philosophically over the prequels, giving in to the power, and doing Vader like things throughout.

There would have been no need for the child stage in the phantom menace. He could have been discovered as a young man with a very unusually strong connection to the force.

He had to be trained despite Jedi rules, due to the strength of this connection lest he never learn to control it. In some ways, you get the impression the council almost fears not to train him, sensing there's something wrong. Vader could be why Yoda didn't want to train Luke at such an age. No metachlorines or "the one" crap.

In time, he comes to realize he is stronger than everyone else, changing from a humble and pious man to a power hungry and over confident one who would wonder why shouldn't he wield his power however he likes. He has the prowess and poise to control it (not the sense of entitlement we get from the movie version of Anakin), or so he thinks.

Remove the uncomfortable romance of Anakin and Padme, and redo it with someone in his life from before he was discovered, and have the Emperor use these tendencies towards want of power (similar to Keanu Reeves and his wife's relationship in Devils Advocate) to draw him to the dark side against her. The last movie Anakin betrays the council and Obi Wan, drawing more from the real 3rd movie than any of the others.

Notice the themes and general story remain the same, but the tone of the character changes. And, thus the viewer can understand the tragedy the OT movies imply. A truly good man becomes corrupt and evil. The prequel Anakin we got, was clearly going dark side even if you didn't see the OT movies. He was flat made for it, literally.
 
Last edited:
So you are perfectly fine with that Obi-Wan and Yoda basically train Luke on a suicide mission or worse, that he could do like his father and join the Emperor, because the way it is set up in the PT, there's no way Luke had any sort of chance against Palpatine.

I don't get it, so someone please explain it to me then.

1. You're not meant to overthink SW. Not even the OT can stand up to that.

2. Only someone with the Force as his ally can defeat the Emperor. There is exactly ONE person in the entire galaxy who knows how to use the Force: Luke. You're old and are about to die (or are already dead and a ghost about to fade into the Force.) Who ELSE do you send as one last ditch attempt to defeat the Emperor?

Luke might have been a fool's hope, but he was still their only one. Yoda wasn't exactly enthusiastic about endorsing him.
 
Back
Top