Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[ironwez20]

Wait a min... You didn't want us to complain about the PT in the ST thread because that was the ST thread and should be for complaining about the ST only.. Now we have a saga thread which, as much as it pains us all, includes the PT , and we cant complain about it here either..

Do I have have to create a thread called "We all know the PT sucks Balls" in order to complain about the PT ?

Now hold up this thread was made for discussions right but as per usual I see the three stooges bashing on the PT and trying to make the ST look good just like before. Lol it?s actually funny that a almost a year later when the world forgot about the ST you guys bring up how it?s still a good ending . But it?s ok. We are going to do this same song and dance maybe next year .

And I?m sure that that thread would be fun

 

[Khev]

Rebels didn't come along until after George's ST treatment, so Maul's ultimate fate (2nd death) hadn't been written yet when he wanted to use him in the ST.

But it does raise an interesting point about how Filoni killed Maul in early 2017, which was after only 1 ST movie had been released. I guess GL's ST ideas hadn't just been dismissed by that point, but apparently taken behind the barn, shot through the head, and buried under a concrete slab.

I'm not gonna lie, after watching the absolutely amazing finale to the Clone Wars series I'd be very curious to see how Maul returning for George's ST would have played out. But damn yeah, George went to all that trouble to bring him back and stage that epic survival of Order 66 only for him to be immediately put down, by Obi-Wan, again, in the very next cartoon series, lol. Since it was Filoni I wonder if any element of that had George's blessing ("since they won't use Maul the way I want I'd prefer you be the one to take him out of commission Dave") or how that played out behind the scenes.

At least them pausing TCW in favor of four seasons of Rebels made the animation for TCW Season 7 that much more spectacular when it finally aired.

 

[JAWS]

"Only one has achieved this power." "Really, who?" "Um my loser defeated apprentice who spent half a decade self-identifying as a robot spider." "Huh??"

 

[TheDucky]

But then Plagueis will tell the story of how he learned his secrets from the true Master of Masters... and then forevermore little kiddies and grown kiddies alike will be saying that the Master of Masters is behind everything and should be the Big Bad in the S-ST. Even John Williams musical motif hints at it.

Lucas: There's always a bigger fish.

Nah, Plagueis taught most of the stuff to himself. He was supposed to the culmination of the Grand Plan and the end of the Sith line. If they were going to do a ST+ trilogy they could just use the Yuuzhan Vong.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I'm not gonna lie, after watching the absolutely amazing finale to the Clone Wars series I'd be very curious to see how Maul returning for George's ST would have played out. But damn yeah, George went to all that trouble to bring him back and stage that epic survival of Order 66 only for him to be immediately put down, by Obi-Wan, again, in the very next cartoon series, lol. Since it was Filoni I wonder if any element of that had George's blessing ("since they won't use Maul the way I want I'd prefer you be the one to take him out of commission Dave") or how that played out behind the scenes.

At least them pausing TCW in favor of four seasons of Rebels made the animation for TCW Season 7 that much more spectacular when it finally aired.

Bringing Maul back in the cartoon series finally makes sense to me now if GL was doing it in order to use him in his sequel movies. Until learning about that this week, I thought Maul's return was just a lamely superficial move since it merely resulted in him accomplishing nothing and being killed by the same guy in yet another saber duel. What story value does that redundancy have? But now, his return is something I see through a different prism knowing that there was a bigger plan for him in GL's sequels.

The one aspect of Maul's return that I would've loved is George's idea to introduce a criminal underground as the antagonist foundation in his ST conflict. That actually accomplishes multiple positive story elements:

1.) It would preserve the defeat of the Empire from the OT. Instead of simply having the exact same conflict of rebels versus imperials (as the Disney ST did), George was angling his conflict to be an *extension* of the OT resolution, rather than merely a repeat of it. It would've been fascinating to see a fight for the future being taken to more of a street-level conflict.

2.) It would preserve Vader's sacrifice. Dying to save his son is still great, but it carried even more import by being the full-circle revenge that was the checkmate move in the Empire vs. Rebellion war. Which leads me to...

3.) It would preserve the killing of Palpatine, and by the one who Palps tortured the most and took everything from. I can't say enough about how much I love that aspect of the ROTJ ending. The evil ******* who conned Anakin out of family and happiness is ultimately undone and killed by his victim. Sweet revenge, retribution, and redemption.

But what drives me nuts about this latest revelation regarding GL's sequel ideas is that he was also going to use Maul to train another Sith (Darth Talon) to be "the new Vader." Why!? What's the point of centralizing the PT around the idea that Anakin would ultimately be the only one who could destroy the Sith, only to undo that in his own sequels? Makes no sense to me.

He could've still had Luke rebuild the Jedi, but build them for what they were before Sidious: galactic peacekeepers. Fighting the criminal underworld, and dealing with darkside users of the Force (like crime boss Maul) would represent a restored balance, like what existed before Palpatine. But bringing the Sith back, and thus needing a new "Chosen One," leaves me with almost zero regret that GL's ST never happened. It's like he forgot his own story (or regretted how he re-contextualized it with the PT).

 

[ZE_501]

Bringing Maul back in the cartoon series finally makes sense to me now if GL was doing it in order to use him in his sequel movies. [...]

You have a lot of good points in this post.

The fledgling New Republic dealing with the Remnant, local warlords, and a well-organized criminal underworld does no disservice to the previous struggles and resolution.

However, it needed to take place around the 'Mandalorian' post-ROTJ timeline. 2015 was just too late to pull off that storyline due to the original cast aging out.

And just as Ahsoka abandoned the Jedi but still used the Force, I like the idea of Maul abandoning the Sith but remaining Maul-y.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The fledgling New Republic dealing with the Remnant, local warlords, and a well-organized criminal underworld does no disservice to the previous struggles and resolution.

However, it needed to take place around the 'Mandalorian' post-ROTJ timeline. 2015 was just too late to pull off that storyline due to the original cast aging out.

Yeah, it's really curious how in 2012 GL was mapping out sequels that would cover 20+ years of events. Was he planning to de-age his cast with CGI? Flashbacks? Time jumps?

What we learned this week is that his ST would've bridged a time where Luke searched out Force-sensitive kids who would be about 2 or 3 years old, all the way to a time 20 years later when Luke's new Jedi Order would be ready to serve as galactic peacekeepers. And we already knew that his sequels would also have Luke disillusioned and in exile at some point too. So, time jumps seem like a given. But using one like he did between TPM and AOTC would carry a greater burden of logistical/de-aging issues.

And just as Ahsoka abandoned the Jedi but still used the Force, I like the idea of Maul abandoning the Sith but remaining Maul-y.

Yep! No need for the "Darth" part of Maul. A badass crimeboss using Force powers and a saber would be enough. Leave the Sith element out.

And Luke's Jedi dealing with Force-powered, Maul-trained warlords could've been a gritty type of awesomeness that we hadn't seen in the first six movies. Would've felt fresh, while still having the larger scope of familiar galactic conflict via Leia (and likely Han, Lando, Chewie, & the droids) with New Republic forces engaging the organized opposition masses.

Saber-twirling angry Maul, with more grounded non-Sith ambitions, could've served really well, imo. I disagree with those who think a godlike "big bad" is necessary in these stories. SW isn't the MCU. Vader wasn't godlike, and was initially even subservient to a regular human (Tarkin), but could've easily carried the entire OT as the main villain.

Badassery built on great character design, delivery/execution, and character development. I think Maul could've filled the role without needing to revive the Sith master/apprentice dynamic (which would undo a great deal of prior plot).

 

[ZE_501]

[...]I disagree with those who think a godlike "big bad" is necessary in these stories. SW isn't the MCU. Vader wasn't godlike, and was initially even subservient to a regular human (Tarkin), but could've easily carried the entire OT as the main villain.
[...]

Agreed. It goes back to what Wor and I were saying; most of what's wrong with Star Wars is due to it collapsing under the weight of too-lofty goals.

 

[xipotec]

You have a lot of good points in this post.

The fledgling New Republic dealing with the Remnant, local warlords, and a well-organized criminal underworld does no disservice to the previous struggles and resolution.

However, it needed to take place around the 'Mandalorian' post-ROTJ timeline. 2015 was just too late to pull off that storyline due to the original cast aging out.

And just as Ahsoka abandoned the Jedi but still used the Force, I like the idea of Maul abandoning the Sith but remaining Maul-y.

They do mention this exactly in Mando . The entire X wing sequence was a supportive tale designed to show how the new republic was over its head. This allowed the crime lords to flourish and the 1St order to regroup and activate contingency plans.

I believe the Lady garage mechanic character mentions it as well.

Man is she a terrible character and actor.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

Bringing Maul back in the cartoon series finally makes sense to me now if GL was doing it in order to use him in his sequel movies. Until learning about that this week, I thought Maul's return was just a lamely superficial move since it merely resulted in him accomplishing nothing and being killed by the same guy in yet another saber duel. What story value does that redundancy have? But now, his return is something I see through a different prism knowing that there was a bigger plan for him in GL's sequels.

The one aspect of Maul's return that I would've loved is George's idea to introduce a criminal underground as the antagonist foundation in his ST conflict. That actually accomplishes multiple positive story elements:

1.) It would preserve the defeat of the Empire from the OT. Instead of simply having the exact same conflict of rebels versus imperials (as the Disney ST did), George was angling his conflict to be an *extension* of the OT resolution, rather than merely a repeat of it. It would've been fascinating to see a fight for the future being taken to more of a street-level conflict.

2.) It would preserve Vader's sacrifice. Dying to save his son is still great, but it carried even more import by being the full-circle revenge that was the checkmate move in the Empire vs. Rebellion war. Which leads me to...

3.) It would preserve the killing of Palpatine, and by the one who Palps tortured the most and took everything from. I can't say enough about how much I love that aspect of the ROTJ ending. The evil ******* who conned Anakin out of family and happiness is ultimately undone and killed by his victim. Sweet revenge, retribution, and redemption.

But what drives me nuts about this latest revelation regarding GL's sequel ideas is that he was also going to use Maul to train another Sith (Darth Talon) to be "the new Vader." Why!? What's the point of centralizing the PT around the idea that Anakin would ultimately be the only one who could destroy the Sith, only to undo that in his own sequels? Makes no sense to me.

He could've still had Luke rebuild the Jedi, but build them for what they were before Sidious: galactic peacekeepers. Fighting the criminal underworld, and dealing with darkside users of the Force (like crime boss Maul) would represent a restored balance, like what existed before Palpatine. But bringing the Sith back, and thus needing a new "Chosen One," leaves me with almost zero regret that GL's ST never happened. It's like he forgot his own story (or regretted how he re-contextualized it with the PT).

Great points ajp. I think the biggest selling points of George's ST would have been:

1. Allowing all three trilogies to have somewhat unique conflicts. Droids/Gungans and Droids/Clones in the PT, Empire vs. Rebels in the OT, New Republic vs. Alien Warlords/Criminals in the ST. It would have been neat to see each trilogy have such separate visual languages. Obviously there'd be some overlap (as there was with the OT and PT), some "rhyming" and what not, but it wouldn't have been nearly as obvious at a mere glance like what we got with the Disney ST.

2. It would have definitely made the ST more "toyetic" to have Maul/Talon, a widely varied "pirate fleet" of ships, aliens, and what have you. The Ducky's of the world who prefer that sort of thing over quality cinema would have been very happy.

3. In George's *original* plans for the ST (back in 1981-82) Leia was going to be crowned "Queen of the New Republic" at the end of ROTJ with Luke and his sister facing Palpatine in Episodes 7-9. So him making Leia the Chancellor would have made for a cool circling back to at least one of those ideas (and I'm all about honoring those original ideas which I strongly believe TROS accomplished with Palps' return and the "Force Dyad".)

4. Lastly, and possibly most importantly, people would have had an easier time accepting the "legitimacy" of George's ST and therefore given a pass to more of its flaws just for the simple fact that it was George himself at the helm, despite the fact that he too was going to negate his entire post-ROTJ EU and much of his own "Chosen One" BS.


The Cons of George's ST as I picture them:

1. *Everything* post-ESB from George always sounds so much better on paper. I can easily describe the broad strokes of the PT and make it sound like the pinnacle of escapist fantasy cinema. But I can almost hear Han Solo himself say "look kid, good on paper is one thing. Good after George has the final say on everything? That's something else..." So who knows what crazy *** things that he would have thrown into the mix that would just utterly ruin everything (sure Maul, Talon and the Pirate Armada vs. Leia's Republic and Luke's Jedi Order sounds awesome...until Luke and Leia's heads pop open and the freaking Whills crawl out and start singing "hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag time gaaaaal".)

2. I think having Maul rise to power after six episodes of Palpatine pulling the strings would have made George's ST feel even more superfluous than the current ST. It would be the equivalent of Karl magically coming back from the dead at the end of Die Hard for one last "raaaargh!" but spread over an entire trilogy instead of just a quick gag at the end. Ask any fan of Die Hard, they'll tell you that even if they liked the Karl scene it just absolutely was not necessary. Now if *Hans* himself had miraculously survived his fall (landed on some scaffolding three floors down or whatever) at least it would have had a more legitimate feel of "whoa, this film isn't over yet." Not too unlike Jim Cameron's trope of the T-800 rising from the fire or the Alien Queen surprising everyone on the Sulaco.

But a mere henchman pulling such a stunt? Well then it just feels more cheap, gimmicky, and unnecessary. So I'm glad that the current ST took the more Terminator/ALIENS approach with regard to turning a previous victory into a "false ending" and having the main bad guy himself return for one last showdown.

3. Carrie's death would have ruined George's ST just as badly as it did Trevorrow's entry. Not that it would have been George's fault by any means (other than him choosing to just wait so stinking long) but we'd still have another trilogy where not only did Leia have to be gently transitioned out of the story but the new *Chosen of the entire 9 film Saga* no less. Yikes, what a disaster that would have been!

I think the best of both worlds would have been to have broken free from having Maul and the Whills in the ST as they did but then just use the coolest elements of that story in the exact way that they were seemingly going with "Solo." Just have the Maul criminal armada take place in standalone films between the PT and OT or Disney+ spin off shows. Maul being a wild card against *both* the Empire and Rebellion could have been awesome. Then they get to indulge in everything cool about his character without putting the weight of an entire trilogy on his shoulders.

Too bad they "wasted" his (second) death on a show like Rebels. A Mandalorian quality "Maul" series where we see see an extension of his TCW Season 7 character and final end could have been awesome. Sure it was a decent enough moment in Rebels but they really could have played it up much more spectacularly in live-action.

 

[jye4ever]

Great points ajp. I think the biggest selling points of George's ST would have been:

1. Allowing all three trilogies to have somewhat unique conflicts. Droids/Gungans and Droids/Clones in the PT, Empire vs. Rebels in the OT, New Republic vs. Alien Warlords/Criminals in the ST. It would have been neat to see each trilogy have such separate visual languages. Obviously there'd be some overlap (as there was with the OT and PT), some "rhyming" and what not, but it wouldn't have been nearly as obvious at a mere glance like what we got with the Disney ST.

2. It would have definitely made the ST more "toyetic" to have Maul/Talon, a widely varied "pirate fleet" of ships, aliens, and what have you. The Ducky's of the world who prefer that sort of thing over quality cinema would have been very happy.

3. In George's *original* plans for the ST (back in 1981-82) Leia was going to be crowned "Queen of the New Republic" at the end of ROTJ with Luke and his sister facing Palpatine in Episodes 7-9. So him making Leia the Chancellor would have made for a cool circling back to at least one of those ideas (and I'm all about honoring those original ideas which I strongly believe TROS accomplished with Palps' return and the "Force Dyad".)

4. Lastly, and possibly most importantly, people would have had an easier time accepting the "legitimacy" of George's ST and therefore given a pass to more of its flaws just for the simple fact that it was George himself at the helm, despite the fact that he too was going to negate his entire post-ROTJ EU and much of his own "Chosen One" BS.


The Cons of George's ST as I picture them:

1. *Everything* post-ESB from George always sounds so much better on paper. I can easily describe the broad strokes of the PT and make it sound like the pinnacle of escapist fantasy cinema. But I can almost hear Han Solo himself say "look kid, good on paper is one thing. Good after George has the final say on everything? That's something else..." So who knows what crazy *** things that he would have thrown into the mix that would just utterly ruin everything (sure Maul, Talon and the Pirate Armada vs. Leia's Republic and Luke's Jedi Order sounds awesome...until Luke and Leia's heads pop open and the freaking Whills crawl out and start singing "hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag time gaaaaal".)

2. I think having Maul rise to power after six episodes of Palpatine pulling the strings would have made George's ST feel even more superfluous than the current ST. It would be the equivalent of Karl magically coming back from the dead at the end of Die Hard for one last "raaaargh!" but spread over an entire trilogy instead of just a quick gag at the end. Ask any fan of Die Hard, they'll tell you that even if they liked the Karl scene it just absolutely was not necessary. Now if *Hans* himself had miraculously survived his fall (landed on some scaffolding three floors down or whatever) at least it would have had a more legitimate feel of "whoa, this film isn't over yet." Not too unlike Jim Cameron's trope of the T-800 rising from the fire or the Alien Queen surprising everyone on the Sulaco.

But a mere henchman pulling such a stunt? Well then it just feels more cheap, gimmicky, and unnecessary. So I'm glad that the current ST took the more Terminator/ALIENS approach with regard to turning a previous victory into a "false ending" and having the main bad guy himself return for one last showdown.

3. Carrie's death would have ruined George's ST just as badly as it did Trevorrow's entry. Not that it would have been George's fault by any means (other than him choosing to just wait so stinking long) but we'd still have another trilogy where not only did Leia have to be gently transitioned out of the story but the new *Chosen of the entire 9 film Saga* no less. Yikes, what a disaster that would have been!

I think the best of both worlds would have been to have broken free from having Maul and the Whills in the ST as they did but then just use the coolest elements of that story in the exact way that they were seemingly going with "Solo." Just have the Maul criminal armada take place in standalone films between the PT and OT or Disney+ spin off shows. Maul being a wild card against *both* the Empire and Rebellion could have been awesome. Then they get to indulge in everything cool about his character without putting the weight of an entire trilogy on his shoulders.

Too bad they "wasted" his (second) death on a show like Rebels. A Mandalorian quality "Maul" series where we see see an extension of his TCW Season 7 character and final end could have been awesome. Sure it was a decent enough moment in Rebels but they really could have played it up much more spectacularly in live-action.

This is all that ajp read

 

[Khev]

 

[ironwez20]

Yeah, Darth Plagueis was the way to go for the ST villain.

He really was. Why they didn?t make snoke him in the first place baffles my mind.

So they sat at a table at Disney land and really said we need an old man villain again who does nothing but sit on his *** all day. I don?t know who he will be, that?s up to future directors to decide .

Freaking yikes. But anyway I think plagueis would have been the obvious option since he was built up in three to be a power Sith

 

[Prime Clone]

He really was. Why they didn?t make snoke him in the first place baffles my mind.

So they sat at a table at Disney land and really said we need an old man villain again who does nothing but sit on his *** all day. I don?t know who he will be, that?s up to future directors to decide .

Freaking yikes. But anyway I think plagueis would have been the obvious option since he was built up in three to be a power Sith

Yes. If Palpatine had turned out to be just another puppet in an even greater scheme the ST might have seemed more justified.

 

[xipotec]

It?s obvious Disney bent over backward to give the old fans what they ?think? they wanted to see......

It was a bunch of fan service. I hope Mando does not follow suit. I am getting a little tired of the call backs on that show.

It?s a huge universe. Let?s see some new stuff.....oh wait SW fans HATE new stuff! LOL


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[ajp4mgs]

*Everything* post-ESB from George always sounds so much better on paper. I can easily describe the broad strokes of the PT and make it sound like the pinnacle of escapist fantasy cinema. But I can almost hear Han Solo himself say "look kid, good on paper is one thing. Good after George has the final say on everything? That's something else..." So who knows what crazy *** things that he would have thrown into the mix that would just utterly ruin everything (sure Maul, Talon and the Pirate Armada vs. Leia's Republic and Luke's Jedi Order sounds awesome...until Luke and Leia's heads pop open and the freaking Whills crawl out and start singing "hello my baby, hello my honey, hello my rag time gaaaaal".)

Aside from some great lol's here, you also hit on the key aspect for me when it comes to what GL's trilogy would've amounted to. I agree with all of the points you made earlier in your post about the positive attributes we would've gotten from his ST, but they wouldn't have been able to overcome the biggest negative for me: the Whills.

Imagine spending six movies and about 40 total years building up characters (both good and evil) who determine the plot outcomes (as well as thematic takeaways) through the consequences of their choices, ambitions, and individual agency... only to then say at the end: "Nah, it was all just predetermined by microscopic single-celled organisms shaping destiny and maintaining a balanced order in that universe." WTF? No thanks.

It's the kind of thing that wouldn't just negate the cool stuff in his ST, for me it would've undercut every great story-related aspect of the entire franchise. I see it as much more than just some silly or crazy-*** old-man-George thing that we could brush aside or handwave away in favor of the good stuff. For this reason alone, I wipe my forehead and say, "Pfew! Glad that trilogy never made it on screen."

I think having Maul rise to power after six episodes of Palpatine pulling the strings would have made George's ST feel even more superfluous than the current ST. It would be the equivalent of Karl magically coming back from the dead at the end of Die Hard for one last "raaaargh!" but spread over an entire trilogy instead of just a quick gag at the end. Ask any fan of Die Hard, they'll tell you that even if they liked the Karl scene it just absolutely was not necessary. Now if *Hans* himself had miraculously survived his fall (landed on some scaffolding three floors down or whatever) at least it would have had a more legitimate feel of "whoa, this film isn't over yet." Not too unlike Jim Cameron's trope of the T-800 rising from the fire or the Alien Queen surprising everyone on the Sulaco.

But a mere henchman pulling such a stunt? Well then it just feels more cheap, gimmicky, and unnecessary. So I'm glad that the current ST took the more Terminator/ALIENS approach with regard to turning a previous victory into a "false ending" and having the main bad guy himself return for one last showdown.

If there's one point I disagree with you on, it's this one about Maul. Not only do I think Maul could've made a great main ST villain (caveat being the omission of any connection to Sith), I actually think he could've been the *perfect* villain.

One of the key oversights in Disney's ST was underestimating the influence of the PT generation of fans. They were some of the most vocal critics because they realized how the PT was deliberately swept under the rug throughout (especially how PT Anakin's legacy was totally crapped on). By having Maul be a key character in the same ST as Luke and the other OT heroes, you'd bridge both previous trilogies (and also TCW) where every generation of fans gets something to be particularly engaged with. It's one of the reasons I think Mando is enjoying such fan loyalty; the PT and TCW references are just as present (more so, actually) as the OT ones.

I don't agree that Maul's cinematic return after Palpatine's demise would've been superfluous. Quite the opposite, in fact. Maul's presence as a crime boss would make for a great embodiment of Palpatine's absence after being destroyed by Anakin. It speaks to the state of the galaxy without the guy who had the greatest influence on it for two decades. Maul, still remaining powerful with the Force, would represent a different kind of evil in the absence of Sidious. No longer threatening from the top down, but rather from the bottom up. It'd be a return to what the Jedi were fighting before Palpatine reintroduced the Sith and established the Empire. In that sense, this would actually take the whole saga narrative full circle.

I think the underworld crime element could've been pure gold! It works really well on so many different story levels that we're not even touching on here. But yeah, by instead bringing Maul back to reintroduce a Sith master/apprentice angle with Darth Talon, we'd still be left with undermined earlier narratives. Another easy "no thanks" for me.

 

[ajp4mgs]

This is all that ajp read

Nope. I read (and enjoyed) the whole post.

I'm not the fan of "Chosen One" that you think I am. The only difference between me and Khev on it is that I accept whatever George puts on screen as SW gospel. Whether I like it or hate it, anything GL commits to the SW cinematic story is something I just learn to roll with. And there's usually some kernel of worthiness, even in his crappier ideas.

For me, he's the only creator with an authoritative voice on SW - even when he goes off the rails. The rest of them are making what amounts to glorified fan fiction if I know they're taking events in a different direction than he would've gone. But even GL would've undermined his own Chosen One story, so . . .

 

[Khev]

Nope. I read (and enjoyed) the whole post.

I'm not the fan of "Chosen One" that you think I am. The only difference between me and Khev on it is that I accept whatever George puts on screen as SW gospel. Whether I like it or hate it, anything GL commits to the SW cinematic story is something I just learn to roll with. And there's usually some kernel of worthiness, even in his crappier ideas.

For me, he's the only creator with an authoritative voice on SW - even when he goes off the rails. The rest of them are making what amounts to glorified fan fiction if I know they're taking events in a different direction than he would've gone. But even GL would've undermined his own Chosen One story, so . . .

I try to see the non-George elements as just being part of the collaborative process of adapting what was originally in his head to movie/TV screens. If he wrote a novel and other people added to it or changed things that'd be one thing. But no film is ever the soul expression of one man so I can accept creative input from other individuals. To me the spirit and lore of the OT as presented in the original theatrical releases is the true "SW gospel." And we all know that the OT as it was released was *not* 100% what George wanted us to see. But to me those films trump even his own intentions.

So when something like the ST or Mando comes along that honors the spirit and lore of the OT compared to elements of the PT or TCW that do not honor or even outright contradict the OT, then I can much more easily discard the latter, regardless of whether it had George's blessing or not (since his own intentions change on a whim from year to year anyway.)

 

[Khev]

Aside from some great lol's here, you also hit on the key aspect for me when it comes to what GL's trilogy would've amounted to. I agree with all of the points you made earlier in your post about the positive attributes we would've gotten from his ST, but they wouldn't have been able to overcome the biggest negative for me: the Whills.

Imagine spending six movies and about 40 total years building up characters (both good and evil) who determine the plot outcomes (as well as thematic takeaways) through the consequences of their choices, ambitions, and individual agency... only to then say at the end: "Nah, it was all just predetermined by microscopic single-celled organisms shaping destiny and maintaining a balanced order in that universe." WTF? No thanks.

It's the kind of thing that wouldn't just negate the cool stuff in his ST, for me it would've undercut every great story-related aspect of the entire franchise. I see it as much more than just some silly or crazy-*** old-man-George thing that we could brush aside or handwave away in favor of the good stuff. For this reason alone, I wipe my forehead and say, "Pfew! Glad that trilogy never made it on screen."

Agreed on all points above.

If there's one point I disagree with you on, it's this one about Maul. Not only do I think Maul could've made a great main ST villain (caveat being the omission of any connection to Sith), I actually think he could've been the *perfect* villain.

One of the key oversights in Disney's ST was underestimating the influence of the PT generation of fans. They were some of the most vocal critics because they realized how the PT was deliberately swept under the rug throughout (especially how PT Anakin's legacy was totally crapped on). By having Maul be a key character in the same ST as Luke and the other OT heroes, you'd bridge both previous trilogies (and also TCW) where every generation of fans gets something to be particularly engaged with. It's one of the reasons I think Mando is enjoying such fan loyalty; the PT and TCW references are just as present (more so, actually) as the OT ones.

I don't agree that Maul's cinematic return after Palpatine's demise would've been superfluous. Quite the opposite, in fact. Maul's presence as a crime boss would make for a great embodiment of Palpatine's absence after being destroyed by Anakin. It speaks to the state of the galaxy without the guy who had the greatest influence on it for two decades. Maul, still remaining powerful with the Force, would represent a different kind of evil in the absence of Sidious. No longer threatening from the top down, but rather from the bottom up. It'd be a return to what the Jedi were fighting before Palpatine reintroduced the Sith and established the Empire. In that sense, this would actually take the whole saga narrative full circle.

I think the underworld crime element could've been pure gold! It works really well on so many different story levels that we're not even touching on here. But yeah, by instead bringing Maul back to reintroduce a Sith master/apprentice angle with Darth Talon, we'd still be left with undermined earlier narratives. Another easy "no thanks" for me.

I'd definitely like to see how George's ST would have played out just to have seen it. Maybe someone can do it in comic form as a "Star Wars Infinities" type Elseworld story just so we could see what we would have gotten (sort of.)

I do like the idea that you called out about the final trilogy bringing together all elements of fandom (while potentially pissing off all generations of fans as well, lol.) Maul from the PT, Legacy heroes from the OT, and Talon from the EU/post-OT. It would have been fascinating to see all of that coming together. Luke facing Maul? And done well? I do admit that it's hard not to feel a little giddy at the thought.

 

[xipotec]

I give credit where it?s due, but after the PT I had lost all faith in GL to make a decent sequel to the OT.....


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