Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[ajp4mgs]

Would have still been more powerful had Ackbar been acting unlikeable then sacrificed because as Leia pointed out the unlikeable part was Poe's problem not Ackbar/Holdo.

How would that work for an audience that had so many people who wouldn't buy that kind of Ackbar characterization?

How would Poe (on screen with Ackbar in TFA, not just TLJ) all of a sudden question Ackbar's motives and loyalty?

 

[xipotec]

No Rose, you took an action that should have been fatal to you both. There was no way you could have known you'd happen to survive. I'd love to see a realistic 'fan-cut' of this scene with their body parts strewn everywhere and have Ryan George from the Pitch Meeting videos pop his head in saying ''Whoopsie!''

Reminds me of the part in Indiana Jones KOTCS where Marion deliberately drives them off a cliff edge and onto an outgrowing tree, somehow knowing that they'd first land on the tree safely and then that the tree would gently lower them to the ground. As an absolute last resort maybe you'd do something like that but you wouldn't do it with any expectation of survival let alone think it was a laughriot as Marion did.

Honestly that pretty in character for Marion.

She was clearly mentally ill, unfortunately so was the actress.


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[JAWS]

Gotcha. TROS is still my fave, there's just no topping that final act beginning with Rey facing Kylo on the DS like you mentioned.

But I'm still leaning toward TLJ being the best made film of the three despite its Roses and Holdos.

I just dont know there.. TLJ.. I mean why would that be the best made? It had its issues with being a film that really went nowhere. There is more cringe in that one then any others.. It has no stand out action scenes other the the death of Snoke.. I dont care for the Throne room fight.

That film all hinges on my enjoyment of Hamill as Luke. I really dont see it being all that better made.


Yikes.. Could another Khev vs JAWS over TLJ be brewing lol

 

[JAWS]

Just so I can be sure, you do agree that Holdo was *supposed to be* unlikeable, right?

One of the TLJ arguments that makes me wonder what the **** people are thinking is the one saying that Ackbar should've had Holdo's role. Every time I hear or read that, I just go:

We would have no reason to distrust Ackbar. There'd be no chance that Poe would be questioning Ackbar's motives, or wondering if he was a traitor. Holdo was an outsider; and she was a rude snob. That's the only way to make it credible for Poe and the Billie Lourd character to stage a mutiny. None of that would work with Ackbar.

Holdo had to be unlikable until her lightspeed sacrifice made her actual loyalty clear. Mission accomplished.

I would have felt more conflicted about who side to be on.. And then when Akbar was right all along it would make more sense.. Akbar was already an established leader.. I can accept him not wanting to be questioned.. Laura Dern.. GTFO

 

[ajp4mgs]

I would have felt more conflicted about who side to be on.. And then when Akbar was right all along it would make more sense.. Akbar was already an established leader.. I can accept him not wanting to be questioned.. Laura Dern.. GTFO

I don't see Poe questioning Ackbar. Questioning a commanding hero of the destruction of DS2 and defeat of the Empire would've been a really weird flex for Poe.

 

[DiFabio]

While I?d never watch any of the ST movies again, my favorite if I had to choose would probably be the Force Awakens. While it was a rip off of ANH, it was the only one that felt like I was watching an actual movie from beginning to end. TLJ and TROS didn’t feel like that, at all. There are those little moments like Rey scavenging on that one planet, not Tatooine, that feels cinematic and well paced. Like we’re actually taking our time in the Star Wars world. TLJ and TROS aren’t like that at all, especially TROS.

Awakens was the most innocent and least obnoxious of the three. It also ends with a lot of potential for future movies. Maybe Luke will be cool! Maybe the Knights of Ren will be cool! Maybe Snoke will be cool! Maybe Rey?s origin will be cool!

 

[choombaz]

Can you think of any films that the score ruined a film?

I know I hated the original score of Legend but Even with Jerry Goldsmiths original score added back in the film is still a stinker to me.

I recently watched Near Dark again and cant stand the score and feel that ruins an otherwise great Vampire movie.

Funny enough.. Its Tangerine Dream that scored both those films.


**** Tangerine Dream

I remember hating the 80s synth scores for Ladyhawke and Lynch?s Dune.

 

[jye4ever]

While I?d never watch any of the ST movies again, my favorite if I had to choose would probably be the Force Awakens. While it was a rip off of ANH, it was the only one that felt like I was watching an actual movie from beginning to end. TLJ and TROS didn’t feel like that, at all. There are those little moments like Rey scavenging on that one planet, not Tatooine, that feels cinematic and well paced. Like we’re actually taking our time in the Star Wars world. TLJ and TROS aren’t like that at all, especially TROS.

Awakens was the most innocent and least obnoxious of the three. It also ends with a lot of potential for future movies. Maybe Luke will be cool! Maybe the Knights of Ren will be cool! Maybe Snoke will be cool! Maybe Rey?s origin will be cool!

DiFabio loves the ST

a-dev is next!

 

[Khev]

Just so I can be sure, you do agree that Holdo was *supposed to be* unlikeable, right?

Yes of course I agree. But I also get why people would be put off by her general "uncoolness" as a SW character which I partially agree with. Think back to Gene Hackman in Crimson Tide for a similar character concept and how awesome he was, with no one distracted by his goofy outfit or hair color.

 

[Khev]

I just dont know there.. TLJ.. I mean why would that be the best made?

Well as I said before despite it being the longest film in the franchise I still find it the easiest of them all to sit through from beginning to end. That includes even the mighty SW and ESB. Every other SW film does have bits where the story lulls (typically in the second act though I would extend that to include *both* Act I and II for AOTC and ROTS) and I kind of start to get impatient for the story to progress. ROTJ's second act is excruciating at downright PT levels at times. ANH is unique in that it's lull is in Act I after the Blockade Runner sequence is over but then has a great second and third act. ESB is great in all three acts but with still a bit of a lull when Luke first arrives on Dagobah and the Falcon goes into hiding.

But TLJ, for all its faults I just find to be pretty captivating from beginning to end. No matter what is going on on screen, whether good or bad (mostly good IMO) it's always *interesting.* And to me that is the mark of an extremely well made film, especially considering the length as I mentioned before.

Other than that it has some of the best acting in the Saga (maybe even *the* best), the best choregraphed space battles of the ST with Poe attacking the Dreadnaught and Kylo attacking the Raddus. One thing that JJ struggled with in both TFA and TROS was the space battles. For some reason he doesn't like to let the battles breath like in previous films where you stick with certain pilots, alternating exterior and interior shots so that you always knew where they were contextually in the battle and what they were doing. JJ always just cuts from cockpit to cockpit then shows a wide shot of tiny starfighters swarming around like gnats.

But with RJ you always knew where the various pilots were in relation to the capital ships, what they were doing and so forth. I still liked the attacks on Starkiller Base and Exegol but they just weren't up to par compositionally compared to other space battles. The Falcon chase on Jakku was definitely a highlight of the Saga though, I'll give him that.

I loved everything on Snoke's ship including the throne room fight so we'll obviously just disagree on that one, plus as I've said before the editing leading up to the Holdo maneuver is one of the most exciting moments in the Saga for me. Then you've got all the Luke stuff that is not only a great arc for him in the context of this one film but also when linked to his OT journey and all that the PT characters aspired to as well. That's a level of interweaving that probably exceeded anything that I would have come up with.

The greatest moments of TLJ still don't exceed the greatest moments of TROS (nor possibly the Rey saber catch in TFA) but damn if it isn't just two and half hours of expert level filmmaking for me.

Yikes.. Could another Khev vs JAWS over TLJ be brewing lol

No, your issues with TLJ are well documented along with everyone else's. I know I won't change your or anyone else's mind.

 

[Star-Crunch]

While I?d never watch any of the ST movies again, my favorite if I had to choose would probably be the Force Awakens. While it was a rip off of ANH, it was the only one that felt like I was watching an actual movie from beginning to end. TLJ and TROS didn’t feel like that, at all. There are those little moments like Rey scavenging on that one planet, not Tatooine, that feels cinematic and well paced. Like we’re actually taking our time in the Star Wars world. TLJ and TROS aren’t like that at all, especially TROS.

Awakens was the most innocent and least obnoxious of the three. It also ends with a lot of potential for future movies. Maybe Luke will be cool! Maybe the Knights of Ren will be cool! Maybe Snoke will be cool! Maybe Rey?s origin will be cool!

You hit the nail on the head. That’s why I still love TFA because it made me excited for what was gonna happen next. Then it happened.

 

[JAWS]

Well as I said before despite it being the longest film in the franchise I still find it the easiest of them all to sit through from beginning to end. That includes even the mighty SW and ESB.

Im sorry but after this statement we can no longer be friends.

 

[Prime Clone]

The PT's only crime was to be a too-accurate portrayal of the old sci-fi B-movies and cliffhanger serials - right down to the awkward directing and clunky dialogue.

If the saga had taken the serialized approach literally, Episode III would have been RO. Ironically TLJ is the only instalment that picks up immediately after the previous one.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Ironically TLJ is the only instalment that picks up immediately after the previous one.

Even does a backpedal in time so it can start over again after the first 10 minutes. That's TLJ for ya. It crazy!

 

[Khev]

Im sorry but after this statement we can no longer be friends.

That's your take away after all I wrote??

 

[Cocoboloboy]

While I?d never watch any of the ST movies again, my favorite if I had to choose would probably be the Force Awakens. While it was a rip off of ANH, it was the only one that felt like I was watching an actual movie from beginning to end. TLJ and TROS didn?t feel like that, at all. There are those little moments like Rey scavenging on that one planet, not Tatooine, that feels cinematic and well paced. Like we?re actually taking our time in the Star Wars world. TLJ and TROS aren?t like that at all, especially TROS.

Awakens was the most innocent and least obnoxious of the three. It also ends with a lot of potential for future movies. Maybe Luke will be cool! Maybe the Knights of Ren will be cool! Maybe Snoke will be cool! Maybe Rey?s origin will be cool!

 

[Prime Clone]

Even does a backpedal in time so it can start over again after the first 10 minutes. That's TLJ for ya. It crazy!

Thanks Shorty

 

[JAWS]

That's your take away after all I wrote??

I didn?t want to just get into another back and forth about the merits of TLJ.. So I went for the low hanging fruit

 

[jye4ever]

I'm watching TROS right now and i'm having an opposite effect of JAWS the parts I didn't like initially have actually improved like Zorri. Babu and Exegol space battle.

The parts I initially enjoyed moved me even more.

When Rey was raging and stabbed Kylo her gritting teeth looked like her sith doppelg?nger sharp teeth.

I like that in ROTJ Luke was on the Death Star during the climax but in TROS it is now Han standing on the Death Star wreckage and Leia projecting onto the wreckage as well talking with Kylo.

ROTJ Lando was inside the DS just like he was inside L3.

 

[JAWS]

I'm watching TROS right now and i'm having an opposite effect of JAWS the parts I didn't like initially have actually improved like Zorri. Babu and Exegol space battle.

The parts I initially enjoyed moved me even more.

When Rey was raging and stabbed Kylo her gritting teeth looked like her sith doppelg?nger sharp teeth.

I like that in ROTJ Luke was on the Death Star during the climax but in TROS it is now Han standing on the Death Star wreckage and Leia projecting onto the wreckage as well talking with Kylo.

ROTJ Lando was inside the DS just like he was inside L3.

For all I know all the issues I complain about might be a non issue when I watch it.. But when I think of those parts I get annoyed