Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[ZE_501]

As Khalil Gibran says in reference to children, Mando comes through the OT, not from it.

Well look at you all erudite and stuff.

 

[Wor-Gar]

To be fair, are there any big IPs that aren't? They all cover the same beats and character archetypes for decades on end. Star Trek is always about some smug Federation going against the same 5 space races. Star Wars is about the same basic fantasy party going on the same exact adventures against the same 5 enemy factions. Spider-Man is always broke, fights the same 15 enemies and just rotates girlfriends.

It's true. Kids love repetition. It's how you hook 'em.

That's why I miss the old Bond movies -- same structure but always new villains, girls, gadgets, etc. Indiana Jones promised that too at first. Action/Adventure used to be the same-old structure but all-new adventures!

Now its always the same Scooby-Doo gang doing the same thing -- SAME characters AND the SAME structure. It's totally monotonous.

In the 70's and 80's the main hero always lost his partner/confident/best friend -- he'd get killed or did a great sacrifice. From Ben Kenobi to Dirty Harry, that was a given almost all the time. It usually drove the hero into the 3rd act. That ended for some reason. NuKids couldn't handle it or their parents couldn't it for them. Now, no ones dies. Everyone comes back if they do. And villains often become heroes if they're popular. If Star Wars was made today, Vader would become a hero in the sequel... oh wait, he sort of did! But seriosuly, by the 3rd movie, he'd be right alongside Luke and Han, suggesting the best maneuver against the Empire in the Falcon's cockpit.

"Haaaaan.... are you familiaaaar with the High Ground maneuver?"

 

[Victοr]

It's true. Kids love repetition. It's how you hook 'em.

That's why I miss the old Bond movies -- same structure but always new villains, girls, gadgets, etc. Indiana Jones promised that too at first. Action/Adventure used to be the same-old structure but all-new adventures!

Now its always the same Scooby-Doo gang doing the same thing -- SAME characters AND the SAME structure. It's totally monotonous.

In the 70's and 80's the main hero always lost his partner/confident/best friend -- he'd get killed or do a great sacrifice. From Ben Kenobi to Dirty Harry, that was a given almost all the time. It usually drove the hero into the 3rd act. That ended for some reason. NuKids couldn't handle it or their parents couldn't it for them. Now, no ones dies. Everyone comes back if they do. And villains often become heroes if they're popular. If Star Wars was made today, Vader would become a hero in the sequel... oh wait, he sort of did! But seriosuly, by the 3rd movie, he'd be right alongside Luke and Han, suggesting the best maneuver against the Empire in the Falcon's cockpit.

"Haaaaan.... are you familiaaaar with the High Ground maneuver?"

On one hand I get it, but on the other I've always kind of hated it. I prfer stories that have a beginning and end. When it comes to these huge IPs, it is important to keep a constistent theme, otherwise you alienate the core fanbase, which is what has been happening the last few years across the board. But getting the exact same story, with the exact same beats, staring the exact same people, over and over again, is something I was never much into. Even as a kid I wanted a sense of progress in the stories. It just had to be logical.

Maybe big pop culture IPs really aren't for me, and I'm too screwed in the head to just walk away...

 

[Wor-Gar]

But getting the exact same story, with the exact same beats, staring the exact same people, over and over again, is something I was never much into. Even as a kid I wanted a sense of progress in the stories.

Yep, that's what I mean. It goes nowhere ultimately, there's no sense of accomplishment, and when there is for a moment (stopping the snap) it gets entirely undone by something even more problematic (now multiverse).

AND NOW, with the multiverse, not only do we have to tolerate current Scooby-Doo gangs but they are now bringing back old Scooby-Doo gangs to work with them.

It's pure insanity yet crowds cheer it on. Clapping like seals. Yay -- Keaton Bats meets Batfleck! Tobey meets Holland! Someday -- Cavill will meet CGI Reeves. It is so sandbox.

 

[Khev]

Now its always the same Scooby-Doo gang doing the same thing -- SAME characters AND the SAME structure. It's totally monotonous.

Hey now Scooby Doo never reused the same villains.

 

[a-dev]

AND NOW, with the multiverse, not only do we have to tolerate current Scooby-Doo gangs but they are now bringing back old Scooby-Doo gangs to work with them.

It's pure insanity yet crowds cheer it on. Clapping like seals.

Welll I'm sorry!

 

[Khev]

Having multiple Spideys from different film franchises meeting each other in the same movie is the definition of "doing something different." But of course even that is quickly becoming a trope with Flashpoint, Doctor Strange Multiverse, etc., lol.

 

[Victοr]

Yep, that's what I mean. It goes nowhere ultimately, there's no sense of accomplishment, and when there is for a moment (stopping the snap) it gets entirely undone by something even more problematic (now multiverse).

AND NOW, with the multiverse, not only do we have to tolerate current Scooby-Doo gangs but they are now bringing back old Scooby-Doo gangs to work with them.

It's pure insanity yet crowds cheer it on. Clapping like seals. Yay -- Keaton Bats meets Batfleck! Tobey meets Holland! Someday -- Cavill will meet CGI Reeves. It is so sandbox.

I don't mind Multiverse stuff as a concept, because they can lead to some interesting stories. The problem arises when it becomes a cinematic gimmick instead of a storytelling device.

 

[TaliBane]

Well look at you all erudite and stuff.

We actually call that "gender diverse" now.

 

[Prime Clone]

I think i wrote this before but I thought that it would have been neat if Obi-Wan show was a five part mini-series with each part titled (1) Fear (2) Anger (3) Hate (4) Suffering and (5) Hope.

Thematically it would focus on Obi-wan hitting rock bottom out in the desert alone with nothing but his memories and failures to dwell upon, feeling sorry for himself. It would also deal with the passage of time and not just be centred on one small period. He would deal with the stages of grief for Anakin, the jedi and the republic. He would face up against all the emotions that could lead someone down a dark path but at the end he would ultimately find hope, showing his fundamental difference to Anakin. Surely Obi-wan's greatest test is to hide for half his life, surrounded by his ghosts and suppress his jedi instinct to do something to help.

It would be threaded through out with dreams (gah i said this before boba did it so badly) which are essentially flashbacks through his own life, key moments shown from Obi-wan's perspective but all show Anakin's tendencies towards the dark (i.e. each focusing on the title element of that episode i.e. fear etc.). As these are dreams it's difficult for the viewer to discern whether they happened exactly that way or if Obi-wan is trying to put focus on little things that he may have missed or let slide, he is essentially punishing himself.

Each of his dreams would always slide sideways into the nightmare of his duel on Mustafar and end abruptly, waking him. Obi-wan should have PTSD. The final time we see it, the fight is longer and we effectively get to have this duel again but in way that the OT purists would prefer and imagined as kids.

He'd watch Luke from a far. Owen and Beru would initially encourage him to be involved with Luke (offer him guidance in case his force abilities manifested and be there to help him hide them and teach him) but Ben would refuse (no longer trusting his own judgement and ability to mentor someone). He would lose Owen's respect and essentially be shunned by him. Owen instead choosing to raise Luke with no knowledge of the force.

In the final episode Maul would find him and we would get that fight in live action, Obi-wan would defeat Maul and forgive him. He would cradle dying Maul in his arms and comfort him in contrast to how he turned away from Anakin and left him to burn. Obi-wan would forgive himself and find peace.

Obi-wan would try throughout to communicate with Qui-gon but fail until the final episode once he had forgive himself. Liam Neeson could then appear and tell him that Luke's midichlorians were off the chart... only kidding. Qui-gon would give Obi-wan hope that Luke could defeat Vader and confirm that the chosen one would bring balance to the force he had foreseen it. Only Obi-wan would interpret it that Luke is the chosen one and he would kill Vader, not turn him. With this message delivered Qui-gon's force essence would disperse.

No inquisitors. No lightsabres in present day until the last episode.

I'd be down for that. It'd be interesting *without* ruining ANH!

 

[xipotec]

Did we really reatart this dumpster fire
of a thread?

 

[Prime Clone]

https://www.tiktok.com/@fake.disney.facts/video/6855402195291032837

 

[Khev]

lol

 

[Zurdo95D]

Out of curiosity I watched the Special Editions of the OT!

I didn't mind most of the added content, however my biggest nits would be Jabba appearing in Ep. IV and the musical scene in Jabba's Hut in ROTJ. Also, while I prefer the original, I also thought it neat that a younger Anakin appeared as a force ghost in the finale.

 

[Prime Clone]

I think Greedo shooting first and Luke screaming as he falls down the Cloud City shaft were my only dislikes (and they changed the latter one back).

 

[JMT1979]

Out of curiosity I watched the Special Editions of the OT!

I didn't mind most of the added content, however my biggest nits would be Jabba appearing in Ep. IV and the musical scene in Jabba's Hut in ROTJ. Also, while I prefer the original, I also thought it neat that a younger Anakin appeared as a force ghost in the finale.

Younger Anakin's ghost is blasphemy!
In ANH, Greedo shooting first.and saying 'macgruber' is terrible, as are all the obviously CGI "comedy" robot and creature scenes added to Mos Eisley - these do nothing but add cringe and change the tone of the scenes. I like the concept of adding the dewbacks, but hate the execution as they are obviously CGI in a practical effects movie.

 

[xipotec]

I think Greedo shooting first and Luke screaming as he falls down the Cloud City shaft were my only dislikes (and they changed the latter one back).

What is truly insane is they used the Emperors shaft scream as Luke's shaft scream for that scene. So Lazy, wouldn't pay Hamill to do voiceover work.

 

[Prime Clone]

What is truly insane is they used the Emperors shaft scream as Luke's shaft scream for that scene. So Lazy, wouldn't pay Hamill to do voiceover work.

Now that I know that, maybe the "human being" line was sheer laziness after all!

 

[Zurdo95D]

Younger Anakin's ghost is blasphemy!
In ANH, Greedo shooting first.and saying 'macgruber' is terrible, as are all the obviously CGI "comedy" robot and creature scenes added to Mos Eisley - these do nothing but add cringe and change the tone of the scenes. I like the concept of adding the dewbacks, but hate the execution as they are obviously CGI in a practical effects movie.

Yeah I can see why all the added "augmentations" can be a downgrade some persons. But for me I didn't find most of it bothersome Plus, of course I much prefer the original theatrical versions.

 

[jye4ever]

Sith Luke could’ve been Exorcist frightening back in that decade…