Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

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Poe was one of my favorite things about the film, but he was pretty 1-dimensional in this film IMO. Just a cool, likable guy.

Agreed. And IMO it actually made the galaxy feel a little "bigger" in that every badass now isn't always the central hero (or villain) of the story. Like LOTR we now have badasses that we don't know much about that just do their job and have their own things going on. Kind of like Boba Fett in ESB. He didn't have any significant relationships with the heroes, wasn't the primary bad guy (hell he wasn't even named on screen,) but was just someone "out there" for Vader to call on if he ever needed him. I liked that.

If Ep. 8 is Empire rehashed and Ep. 9 is Jedi rehashed (of course, accounting for several fan critiques levied against the original--Ewoks will be much more menacing the next time out! The Solo character will be a total ******* this time!), than that will make people spit on Force Awakens for what it brought in its wake.

Agreed as well. Kind of how Batman Forever gets lumped in with Batman & Robin as collective "Schumacher crap." Maybe not the best example with regard to TFA and Star Wars but still, while not on the level of Batman or Batman Returns, if there never was a B&R and the "trilogy" just ended with Forever I think people would appreciate it more for being it's own thing. But since it ushered in B&R....
 
Poe was perfectly cast - you like him immediately because Oscar Isaac has so much charisma. He sets up the energy of the movie. If you're on board when he tells Finn "we're gonna do this" you're pretty much on board for the whole thing.
 
Yeah, he adds color and texture to the "universe" and overall story. We see there are traditional bad-ass heroes still out there. And by giving us a little taste, like Boba, we want more of him. But in this movie the freaked out Storm Trooper defector, novice Jedi to be, and old fogeys took center stage. And the movie's probably better off because of that.
 
Poe was perfectly cast - you like him immediately because Oscar Isaac has so much charisma. He sets up the energy of the movie. If you're on board when he tells Finn "we're gonna do this" you're pretty much on board for the whole thing.

Agreed 110% He was great! Just need more of him next time!
 
Poe was one of my favorite things about the film, but he was pretty 1-dimensional in this film IMO. Just a cool, likable guy.


You can be more or less objective but still assess the movie in context. And context matters. This is a Star Wars film, and should be analyzed as a part of the Star Wars film-verse. From that perspective, for many regular Joes/critics/super fans, it does get a boost because it brings the franchise back to a fun, rewarding place after decades of silence, disappointment, or mediocrity. If it wasn't associated with Star Wars, you're probably right in that it would be viewed as good, but not lavishly praised to the extent that it is. But I don't fault critics for that. You're never reviewing a film in a complete bubble. Every new Tarantino movie has to be understood in a post-Pulp Fiction world. Superman/Batman will be judged in relation to the Burton and Nolan films and Man of Steel. And all of these fall within a broader film-making paradigm that distinguishes movies now from movies 20 years ago, which themselves were very different than movies 40 years ago, etc.

Given that, of course opinions while a hyped up, beloved movie are playing aren't going to be held the same way 50 years from now. But I think historically this film will still be appreciated for all that things that it did right vs. all that could have (and in the past has) gone terribly wrong. My hope is that they innovate and try to improve moving forward, or I fear history may retroactively hurt Force Awakens more than it deserves, in the same way I was describing above. If Ep. 8 is Empire rehashed and Ep. 9 is Jedi rehashed (of course, accounting for several fan critiques levied against the original--Ewoks will be much more menacing the next time out! The Solo character will be a total ******* this time!), than that will make people spit on Force Awakens for what it brought in its wake.

The next film could go either way. Maybe they will "borrow" a lot from ESB, or it'll be very different. Either way, it could disappoint critics for different reasons. I can also see critics being less lenient next time, just like critics did with AOU. The same critics that loved Avengers gave the sequel a negative review in part because maybe they gushed a bit much the first time, so they felt they had to be less forgiving, even though both films are very similar in quality. Anyway, we already know Luke is far away in some island by himself, Yoda style, and Rey found him, presumably to begin her training, like Luke in ESB. We also know that the new Empire was defeated like in the original film, and if so, this will be the film where they "win", again like ESB. That's expected, but we'll see how much they borrow from ESB. I doubt they do something so obvious like Kylo saying to Rey,"I am your brother." Finn and Poe can make the next film very different from ESB, depending on how they use them.
 
One thing that amused me (and I'm sure some people will see it as a negative) was how "video game-y" Finn and Poe's escape in the TIE felt. You know all those Star Wars or piloting games where someone's face appears in the corner of the screen telling you "take out all the turrets" and then for that segment of the game you do nothing but shoot turrets and if you're supposed to shoot four turrets you see 1/4 then 2/4, 3/4, until 4/4 and then you move on to the "dodging" part of the level. :lol The scene worked because the banter was so entertaining and the excitement was high but I couldn't help but feel like I'd lived that moment in arcades or on my couch many times over.

Also Poe's "trench run" reminded me of all the trench runs you do in SW games where they want to give you the opportunity to emulate what Luke did but for the sake of gameplay they add more obstacles in the trench to navigate around. Somehow they pulled off the whole "video game in a movie" without it being the eye-rolling Mega Man sequence of AOTC.
 
WRT Poe, I just think they didn’t show enough of a personality to him. He was just basically a really good guy who happens to be the best pilot in the fleet. But everyone else in the movie was much more complex and well-drawn that his lack of personality is made more obvious, especially because he does have a decent amount of screen time. It’s not like he’s just another Wedge that you only see in the X-Wing for a few seconds at a time. So it’s not like they didn’t give him enough to do, because he does a lot and is crucial to the plot. He just felt a little underbaked.

But like I said before, that is very minor compared to how to the movie works overall. In repeated viewings, I may pick up on some more personality traits that I might have missed the first time around. And I’m sure he’ll be expanded on in the next movie as well.

One other thing I’d like to comment on was how Kylo killed Han. I remember when Episode 1 was coming out, and seeing how cool the double bladed Maul saber was, that I thought, “I bet they will have someone get killed by having a lightsaber ignited though them! That would be so cool!” Of course all 3 prequels came and went and that didn’t happen. So I’m glad it finally did! It just sucks that it was at the expense of my favorite character. :( By the way, has that ever happened in the EU, a lightsaber ignited through someone? Or did I really make that up in 1999? ;)
 
It's not just fans though, it's the critics. I expected super fans to creamed their pants as well as most critics, but it's just annoying how so many film critics ignored the flaws...something they would never do with other films. It's their job as "professional" critics to be objective, not fanboys. I expect fanboys to be blinded by nostalgia, but critics should be above that. Is there any other film franchise that would be permitted by critics to recycle so many plot points? No, not really. It devalues their profession and any future criticism of other films. That's the worst part, imo...

Maybe theses flaws are just nitpicks. Just cause you feel it has all these flaws doesn't make it a universal truth. It's all opinion after all. Besides, what movie has no flaws? I don't think I have ever seen a "perfect" film.
 
The next film could go either way. Maybe they will "borrow" a lot from ESB, or it'll be very different. Either way, it could disappoint critics for different reasons. I can also see critics being less lenient next time, just like critics did with AOU. The same critics that loved Avengers gave the sequel a negative review in part because maybe they gushed a bit much the first time, so they felt they had to be less forgiving, even though both films are very similar in quality. Anyway, we already know Luke is far away in some island by himself, Yoda style, and Rey found him, presumably to begin her training, like Luke in ESB. We also know that the new Empire was defeated like in the original film, and if so, this will be the film where they "win", again like ESB. That's expected, but we'll see how much they borrow from ESB. I doubt they do something so obvious like Kylo saying to Rey,"I am your brother." Finn and Poe can make the next film very different from ESB, depending on how they use them.
While I think AOU was crammed much fuller than Avengers, and that that is an objectively more problematic issue than we saw with the first film, I agree that those films are very similar in terms of quality level. The novelty wore off a bit, and AOU suffered because of it. By extension, I think this issue will affect Batman V. Superman. Even if it does turn out to be good, people won't "geek out" the way they did for Avengers. Because we've already seen major comic book characters get together and team up multiple times now.
 
I remember when Episode 1 was coming out, and seeing how cool the double bladed Maul saber was, that I thought, “I bet they will have someone get killed by having a lightsaber ignited though them! That would be so cool!” Of course all 3 prequels came and went and that didn’t happen. So I’m glad it finally did! It just sucks that it was at the expense of my favorite character. :( By the way, has that ever happened in the EU, a lightsaber ignited through someone? Or did I really make that up in 1999? ;)

In the 80's I remember thinking that if Luke really wanted to kill the Emperor all he had to do was turn off his saber for a split second when Vader deflected his attack then turn it on again while it was pointed at the Emperor. :D
 
Besides, what movie has no flaws?
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Khev will back me up here :lol

Die Hard and Raising Arizona are the runners up.
 
Poe was perfectly cast - you like him immediately because Oscar Isaac has so much charisma. He sets up the energy of the movie. If you're on board when he tells Finn "we're gonna do this" you're pretty much on board for the whole thing.

I liked it him in the film. It was a mistake to get rid of him for most of the film, imo. And then he just shows up...:dunno It would have made more sense for Finn and Poe to find Rey and all three of them escape together.
 
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Khev will back me up here :lol

You know I actually finally saw that for the first time a few weeks back. I can't remember if you acknowledged me making mention of it. A good film. The whole choking his wife during sex did kind of cross a line for me though. Even with all the nasty, vile things I can stomach in a movie there are still a few things that do prevent me from watching them again and often times it's brutal on screen violence against women. The James Gandolfini beatdown Patricia Arquette gets in True Romance is another one. But I do recognize that from a filmmaking standpoint A History of Violence was a quality film.
 
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Khev will back me up here :lol

Die Hard and Raising Arizona are the runners up.

As much as I like all 3 of the mentioned films, I'm sure a dedicated member of these boards could find nitpicks to make about them.

Edit - could you imagine a star wars movie directed by Cronenberg? How amazing/bizarre would that be?
 
I'm joking of course. But there are movies where you have to look really hard to find issues with them. And that's going to vary from person to person, but I have some that I would place in that list.

And I'm glad you finally saw it, Khev. Not to get too off-topic here, but one of Cronenberg's objectives, I believe, was to explore the truly ugly side of violence, and characters who engage in violence. The almost rape in that film was one of those. The audience has to think twice about supporting or cheering on a character of that type.
 
In the 80's I remember thinking that if Luke really wanted to kill the Emperor all he had to do was turn off his saber for a split second when Vader deflected his attack then turn it on again while it was pointed at the Emperor. :D

That also raises the question: will Luke REALLY have turned to the dark side by killing the Emperor who was responsible for killing all the Jedi and destroying a planet, as well as killing all those rebels in the battle of Endor! It was completely justifiable. Like you said, all Luke had to do was ignite the lightsaber in his direction and the whole war would have been over! Or hell, Vader and Luke could have double teamed the emperor from the get go! Vader made the suggestion himself in ESB!
 
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