Ren will probably be better in the next one
Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)
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morphosis
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I agreed with like 100% of it!!! 
jye4ever
Broke and happy
I agree, I can't wait to see him and Hux having another conversation with Snoke.
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The only part of that article that I disagreed with was "Kylo is better than Vader" because to me Vader exists ONLY in the OT and that version of him is better than pretty much any villain in film history. But I know the writer was rating Vader as a Lloyd/Christensen/Prowse character who spans six films and I would agree that if you look at him that way then the PT does diminish him lower than Kylo. But Kylo is great, already one of the top SW characters. He's no OT Vader but Abrams, Kasdan and even Kylo himself knows this, and it's part of his appeal.
I'm a little concerned over what Trevorrow's take on Star Wars will be. He clearly didn't feel any emotional attachment to any of the Winston animatronic dinos when he made JW. He wouldn't even do practical for close-ups involving the actors touching them.
JW was an awesome crowd pleaser but I don't want his SW to look like that.
JW was an awesome crowd pleaser but I don't want his SW to look like that.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
This is very true, great counter point!
That being said now that my son has seen Crying Ren in action I do now need to de-pussify him by having him watch The Good the Bad and the Ugly, Once Upon a Time in the West and Die Hard.
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I'm not convinced Kasdan wrote most of that stuff. Doesn't seem like his handiwork.
"Ya gotta boyfraaaand? Issth he a cute boyfrand?!"
Some of the punchy banter was Avengers and Whedonesque. Even the little orange thing had the hots for Chewbacca the only way a little CGI grandma can. Besides, wasn't Kasdan and Gary Kurtz against another Death Star for Return of the Jedi? Why would he write in another one 30 years later. I bet he was brought on board for the name recognition like "the guy that wrote some of Empire Strikes Back" to get the OT purists' mouthwatering exclusively. I wonder how many people went uncredited for the screenplay.
"Ya gotta boyfraaaand? Issth he a cute boyfrand?!"
Some of the punchy banter was Avengers and Whedonesque. Even the little orange thing had the hots for Chewbacca the only way a little CGI grandma can. Besides, wasn't Kasdan and Gary Kurtz against another Death Star for Return of the Jedi? Why would he write in another one 30 years later. I bet he was brought on board for the name recognition like "the guy that wrote some of Empire Strikes Back" to get the OT purists' mouthwatering exclusively. I wonder how many people went uncredited for the screenplay.
Mad Old Lu
Super Freak
I got concerned as soon as I watched JW, and the effects were the least of my concern!
JW wasn’t a bad film. It was just so bland and generic. Maybe most of what’s wrong with JW isn’t necessarily his fault: the bland script, the dumb choices the characters made, the bad acting. But the action wasn’t very exciting, nor was it emotionally connecting beyond the manipulative and heavy handed “oh no, kids are in trouble” kind of way. If the action isn’t going to be spectacularly choreographed, then there should at least be some kind of emotional connection to the characters in peril. JW had neither.
I’m not as concerned with Rian Johnson because I think his previous efforts have shown that you can really care for the characters, and the “action” was cerebral and clever, which for action, if I had to pick either clever or spectacular, I would pick clever. Of course, both is always preferred.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Yup, Kasdan be like, "Add as many ****ing death stars that you want, I don't give a **** just show me the benjamins"
You guys need to LEAVE KYLO ALOOOONE!
Yeah, he's not superior to Vader in any discernible way to me. Unless you are including the ****ty prequels Vader in the conversation.
But as Khev says, the writers of the new film were intentionally making him an emo character. I'm sure they will try to make him more legitimately bad ass in the future, before he is "redeemed."
I wonder if this is they way they figure many of their evil characters develop. Was Hux once an emo youth, who was teased for being a ginger, and is now lashing out against "society" (e.g., the ruling planet) for it? Was Phasma also teased for being a large woman as Brienne was, and was she only drawn to the Empire because someone there gave her attention and made her feel special?
Yeah, he's not superior to Vader in any discernible way to me. Unless you are including the ****ty prequels Vader in the conversation.
But as Khev says, the writers of the new film were intentionally making him an emo character. I'm sure they will try to make him more legitimately bad ass in the future, before he is "redeemed."
I wonder if this is they way they figure many of their evil characters develop. Was Hux once an emo youth, who was teased for being a ginger, and is now lashing out against "society" (e.g., the ruling planet) for it? Was Phasma also teased for being a large woman as Brienne was, and was she only drawn to the Empire because someone there gave her attention and made her feel special?
These are also pretty much my feelings for both in a nutshell. Trevorrow has very little in the way of track record. I actually did see both features he directed, but neither would suggest to me that he would be a good pick for Star Wars. But. . .he made lots of green with Meh-Rassic World.
Wasn't Johnson originally announced to be directing both Episode 8 and 9?
jye4ever
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In E8 Snoke will order Kyla to go get that damn droid once and for all!
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I wonder if Han offering Rey a job was his attempt to protect her, if he does in fact know who she is.
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@kara (saw you editing and didn't care to quote)
Even taking prequel Annie and the baby killer Anakin into account, Vader as a whole six movie character is better than Kylo Ren.
I can kinda relate to being tempted and turning to "teh Dark Side" if I was a slave that had a device implanted in my body that was rigged to explode if I ran away (Fear). I'd be tempted by the dark side of I never had a father figure and I was taken away from my mom to be raised by emotionless monks that thought little of me based on one council meeting (loneliness). Who wouldn't give in when you find out that your mother was raped and killed by Sandpeople when you finally see her again (anger). Or that you're having visions of your wife and unborn children dying (loss)? Or that your fellow Jedi don't trust you, disobey their own codes like hypocrites, and disrespect you? Throw in Palpatine manipulating everyone and you got your Vader.
Kylo Ren is a neat character and I dig him (mostly out of little things, like punching his side wound before the lightsaber duel) but the "emo", *****y stuff is right on. That mocking twitter account isn't far off the mark. At least Luke and Anakin's temptations spawned from the loss of their friends and loved ones. Kylo Ren? He kills his friends and loved ones! How are you going to stab your dad through the chest when he was just reaching out asking you to come back home and that everyone still loves and supports you? That's unredeemable and unrelatable. Right up there with Anakin killing a bunch of innocent kids that trusted him. I think Kylo Ren is an interesting character, but at the end of the day his only "characterization" is "wants to be like Darth Vader" and acts like the opposite of Anakin Skywalker (in that instead of being tempted by the dark side, Kylo is tempted by the light).
He's got the same monotone voice, the same "I'm conflicted at which Hot Topic hoodie, err, robes I should buy" neurosis and screeching/crying that Annie had but NONE of the coolness of Darth Vader. Whereas Vader was revealed to be a Humpty Dumpty marshmallow puss at the end of the third movie, we find out Kylo Ren is a dork midway through his first movie! Once you crack open that villain's helmet, the mystique is lost. Kylo Ren is nothing more than little Ben, crying out for attention because his mommy and daddy didn't spend enough time with him, seduced by a crusty old CGI man who killed his harmless pop. You don't come back from that.
Even taking prequel Annie and the baby killer Anakin into account, Vader as a whole six movie character is better than Kylo Ren.
I can kinda relate to being tempted and turning to "teh Dark Side" if I was a slave that had a device implanted in my body that was rigged to explode if I ran away (Fear). I'd be tempted by the dark side of I never had a father figure and I was taken away from my mom to be raised by emotionless monks that thought little of me based on one council meeting (loneliness). Who wouldn't give in when you find out that your mother was raped and killed by Sandpeople when you finally see her again (anger). Or that you're having visions of your wife and unborn children dying (loss)? Or that your fellow Jedi don't trust you, disobey their own codes like hypocrites, and disrespect you? Throw in Palpatine manipulating everyone and you got your Vader.
Kylo Ren is a neat character and I dig him (mostly out of little things, like punching his side wound before the lightsaber duel) but the "emo", *****y stuff is right on. That mocking twitter account isn't far off the mark. At least Luke and Anakin's temptations spawned from the loss of their friends and loved ones. Kylo Ren? He kills his friends and loved ones! How are you going to stab your dad through the chest when he was just reaching out asking you to come back home and that everyone still loves and supports you? That's unredeemable and unrelatable. Right up there with Anakin killing a bunch of innocent kids that trusted him. I think Kylo Ren is an interesting character, but at the end of the day his only "characterization" is "wants to be like Darth Vader" and acts like the opposite of Anakin Skywalker (in that instead of being tempted by the dark side, Kylo is tempted by the light).
He's got the same monotone voice, the same "I'm conflicted at which Hot Topic hoodie, err, robes I should buy" neurosis and screeching/crying that Annie had but NONE of the coolness of Darth Vader. Whereas Vader was revealed to be a Humpty Dumpty marshmallow puss at the end of the third movie, we find out Kylo Ren is a dork midway through his first movie! Once you crack open that villain's helmet, the mystique is lost. Kylo Ren is nothing more than little Ben, crying out for attention because his mommy and daddy didn't spend enough time with him, seduced by a crusty old CGI man who killed his harmless pop. You don't come back from that.
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Gotta shake my head at all the millennials here who can't handle characters having emotions. If First Blood, ALIENS, Lethal Weapon or Die Hard came out today then Rambo, Ripley, Riggs and McClane would all be dismissed as whiny emo crybabies because every single one of them wept on screen.
Absolutely. Listen to his dialogue: "I've been thinking about taking on a second mate who can keep up with me and Chewie and who appreciates the Falcon." He's been "thinking about that" for the five minutes he's owned the ship again after so many years of possibly being resigned to never seeing it again? That was totally his excuse to keep her under his wing.
