Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[kryptonianmutie]

Rey, Kylo Ren, and BB-8 were instant icons. Ask any random person on the street who the *main girl* was in the highest grossing film of all time and watch their eyes glaze over in confusion. Then ask them who the main villain was in the highest grossing movie of all time. The entire world saw Avatar. Three times each. And nobody retained ****. Not so with TFA my man.

Actually Avatar was so mind numbingly dumb and boring I have yet to watch more than half the movie, so the whole world hasn't seen it![emoji38]
And I'd put the LOST pilot episode and Star Trek over True Lies, Titanic and Avatar.

 

[Khev]

Actually Avatar was so mind numbingly dumb and boring I have yet to watch more than half the movie, so the whole world hadn't seen it![emoji38]

Well there you go.

But yeah, two and a half hours of CG and tree hippy preaching just isn't very compelling anymore. It's not a bad film, I think it's still pretty good, but it MUST be watched in 3D and only when I'm in the mood. TFA is one of those infinitely rewatchable films that I can see in 3D, 2D, on a crappy 13 inch screen on a plane, etc., and it's always entertaining.

If I'm not specifically in the mood to watch Avatar and just come across it channel surfing it never pulls me in for more than a minute or two. I still really like the opening with the shuttle arriving on Pandora and then the big battle at the end but the entire two hour middle is a bit of a chore.

 

[BuGz]

After Aliens and The Abyss, Cameron movies are pretty lame and cheesy. Such a shame......

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[a-dev]

Looks like Daisy Ridley will be starring in "Kolma" in between Star Wars films instead of Tomb Raider. Good for her.



Daisy Ridley to reunite with J.J. Abrams on fantasy-romance Kolma | EW.com

It's still fantasy but sounds like more of an artsy "The Lovely Bones" type fantasy and hardly another event movie. Looking forward to it.

That scenario brings to mind the whole Titanic Jack and Rose thing. Rose dies and her heaven ends up being with Jack - her 2 day fling - instead of her eventual, presumably far longer-term, husband.

Actually he stole the ending of Star Wars for ALIENS too. The dropship fleeing the complex right before it explodes is almost a note for note copy of the final moments of the Death Star.

Regarding Abrams filmography, I don't remember much about MI3 (other than I thought it was decent at the time,) I actually really like Super 8, I think that one is an overlooked gem, neither Star Trek film did anything for me but TFA is far above anything Cameron has done post ALIENS.

How many times did you see T2 in the theatre again? You loved that film once, it was part of your true self, you've only forgotten. I know there is T2 love in you. TFA hasn't driven it from you fully.

 

[Bo Shrek]

I hope Chewbacca remains in this new trilogy. I like Rey and him on the Falcon!!

 

[kryptonianmutie]

How many times did you see T2 in the theatre again? You loved that film once, it was part of your true self, you've only forgotten. I know there is T2 love in you. TFA hasn't driven it from you fully.

[emoji38]

 

[Khev]

That scenario brings to mind the whole Titanic Jack and Rose thing. Rose dies and her heaven ends up being with Jack - her 2 day fling - instead of her eventual, presumably far longer-term, husband.

Yes it will be quite the diss for Daisy's poor husband if she chooses to forget him and spend eternity with the old boyfriend. And based on Titanic I'm guessing that that's what she'll do. Then the sequel can be all about her husband in heaven trying to get her to "remember." Hijinks ensue.

How many times did you see T2 in the theatre again?

Not as much as TFA.

You loved that film once, it was part of your true self, you've only forgotten. I know there is T2 love in you. TFA hasn't driven it from you fully.

T2 was just the perfect movie for a 17 year old who wanted exactly that type of movie. Boy did it deliver. It also is a bit like the first Avengers for jye in that my first viewing of it was literally one of the most epic theatrical experiences of my life. It was 4th of July weekend and I was in Los Angeles just a few miles from the Galleria mall that appeared in the film, had the perfect crowd that was cheering at all the right parts, to this day it was just an amazing experience. Even though the film itself didn't quite stand the test of time as far as my interest it really made an impact back in the day.

 

[kryptonianmutie]

T2 was just the perfect movie for a 17 year old who wanted exactly that type of movie. Boy did it deliver. It also is a bit like the first Avengers for jye in that my first viewing of it was literally one of the most epic theatrical experiences of my life. It was 4th of July weekend and I was in Los Angeles just a few miles from the Galleria mall that appeared in the film, had the perfect crowd that was cheering at all the right parts, to this day it was just an amazing experience. Even though the film itself didn't quite stand the test of time as far as my interest it really made an impact back in the day.

Almost the same for me except it was 4th of July at Disney World and it was my birthday. Best movie going experience I ever had.

 

[Spartan Rex]

 

[jye4ever]

Rey, Kylo Ren, and BB-8 were instant icons. Ask any random person on the street who the *main girl* was in the highest grossing film of all time and watch their eyes glaze over in confusion. Then ask them who the main villain was in the highest grossing movie of all time. The entire world saw Avatar. Three times each. And nobody retained ****. Not so with TFA my man.

But we're talking SW here.

JarJar became an instant icon.

Love story between Anakin and Padme became instant icons.

The piece of poop JarJar stepped on became an instant icon!

 

[Khev]

But we're talking SW here.

JarJar became an instant icon.

Love story between Anakin and Padme became instant icons.

The piece of poop JarJar stepped on became an instant icon!

Which is why The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones are also better than Avatar.

It's very easy to make household names out of something the entire world pays attention to and yet...Cameron couldn't do it.

 

[karamazov80]

To massive Force Awakens fans those characters may be icons. They aren't to me. Takes a lot more than a decent movie to do that to a character. They've been shoved down our throats via marketing and merchandising in a way that Avatar wasn't and wouldn't be, since it wasn't targeting kids. So, they're more ubiquitous. But that =/= iconic. As JYE says, we got a hell of a lot of JarJar and other prequel junk thrown in our faces when those movies came out. And at the time, for some, I'm sure that Qui-Gon and pals were iconic.

Being iconic means more than being omnipresent. It means representing something meaningful to the masses in a symbolic way.

 

[a-dev]

To massive Force Awakens fans those characters may be icons. They aren't to me. Takes a lot more than a decent movie to do that to a character. They've been shoved down our throats via marketing and merchandising in a way that Avatar wasn't and wouldn't be, since it wasn't targeting kids. So, they're more ubiquitous. But that =/= iconic. As JYE says, we got a hell of a lot of JarJar and other prequel junk thrown in our faces when those movies came out. And at the time, for some, I'm sure that Qui-Gon and pals were iconic.

Being iconic means more than being omnipresent. It means representing something meaningful to the masses in a symbolic way.

Like Uncle Bob.

 

[Khev]

Being iconic means more than being omnipresent. It means representing something meaningful to the masses in a symbolic way.

And TFA has characters that do that, in this order:

1. BB-8 (hands down)
2. Kylo Ren
3. Rey

Stepping in poop and Anakin saying he wished he could wish away his wishes don't really count. I think the only true icons that came out of the PT were Jar Jar (an icon of infamy) and Darth Maul.

Whether or not you want to debate about whether or not "TFA character x" qualifies as an "icon" or not there is definitely no disputing that they are known and appreciated much more than anything out of Avatar and it has nothing to do with plush toys instructing us to.

 

[a-dev]

I think it's a little bit early to call anything in TFA 'iconic' but I'd say there's potential in Rey and BB-8.

 

[karamazov80]

You need distance and time to make those kinds of statements. But that's just my opinion. I don't think we get movie icons all the time.

I don't know if I can agree with your last statement though, because again, these were movies targeting totally different groups with totally different agendas (Cameron even cast the most generic actor alive in the lead role, suggesting the characters were totally subservient to the story ). We didn't see Avatars on lunchboxes, etc. You cannot escape the Disney Star Wars marketing machine if you try. I'm no fan of Avatar. But it seems like an apples and oranges comparison. I'm sure for many people Avatar did resonate. They just don't happen to be kids or Star Wars geeks necessarily.

 

[karamazov80]

I think it's a little bit early to call anything in TFA 'iconic' but I'd say there's potential in Rey and BB-8.

To borrow an argument I believe Khev has made in the past--it's much much harder for anything to become "iconic" in this day and age, when we're constantly bombarded with new information. In the late '70s, how many good action movies were out there for kids, particularly with fantastic elements like battling in space and dueling with light sabers? Now, we get stuff all the time at the theaters, on TV, on the web, in comic shops that are trying to recapture that lightning in a bottle. And everything's more disposable, yet easier to access at a moment's notice. Kids move on from thing to thing, because it is so easy to do so. While I would dwell excessively on something like GI Joe, which came on in afternoons for a brief period of time, then were gone, along with toys and decent comics, and others would dig deep into their imagination thinking about Star Wars, before movies were available to watch at home on TV, kids nowadays don't need to do this. And they don't. So things don't really stick, even if they're really good, and ubiquitous in a moment in time. I would say that Darth Vader is a movie icon. Kylo Ren? Not so much. Maybe at some point, though I'm skeptical.

 

[Khev]

I think it's a little bit early to call anything in TFA 'iconic' but I'd say there's potential in Rey and BB-8.

Generally speaking, sure. But I do think there are "instant icons." Remember velociraptors? Who had even heard of those things prior to 1993? And then BAM they were instantly right up there with T-Rexes and Triceratops. The characters of the original Star Wars were all instant legends, we didn't need to wait years or decades to verify that. To a lesser extent the Terminator, Forrest Gump (it helps when the character's name is the title, lol, but still they DID resonate) Frodo, Gandalf, Jack Sparrow, and a few others have instantly resonated throughout the world.

I think that BB-8 and Kylo at least are up there where Jack was in 2003. Maybe Rey too (though someone might need to say "Rey from Star Wars" since her name itself isn't unique.")

 

[Mad Old Lu]

To borrow an argument I believe Khev has made in the past--it's much much harder for anything to become "iconic" in this day and age, when we're constantly bombarded with new information. In the late '70s, how many good action movies were out there for kids, particularly with fantastic elements like battling in space and dueling with light sabers? Now, we get stuff all the time at the theaters, on TV, on the web, in comic shops that are trying to recapture that lightning in a bottle. And everything's more disposable, yet easier to access at a moment's notice. Kids move on from thing to thing, because it is so easy to do so. While I would dwell excessively on something like GI Joe, which came on in afternoons for a brief period of time, then were gone, along with toys and decent comics, and others would dig deep into their imagination thinking about Star Wars, before movies were available to watch at home on TV, kids nowadays don't need to do this. And they don't. So things don't really stick, even if they're really good, and ubiquitous in a moment in time. I would say that Darth Vader is a movie icon. Kylo Ren? Not so much. Maybe at some point, though I'm skeptical.

Beautiful post! I agree with you that it’s much more difficult to achieve “icon” status and fear that future generations will never have anything like we had with SW or whatever. Again with Avatar—it was immensely popular that year it came out and it seemed like maybe that movie had become the SW of that young generation. But look at it now.

But I thoroughly enjoyed TFA. I just had a chance to watch it again for the first time since December, only my second viewing, and I had an enormous grin across my face throughout. It was just such a joyful experience for me. And I think I enjoyed it better this time around than the first time even though I liked it right off the bat.

I’m really out of touch at my age with no children to know what is popular with kids now. Is TFA as popular and influential as SW was to us? Is it even as popular as Avatar was? The BO numbers suggest that, but I’d be curious to know if it has seeped into everyday life to our culture.

Generally speaking, sure. But I do think there are "instant icons." Remember velociraptors? Who had even heard of those things prior to 1993? And then BAM they were instantly right up there with T-Rexes and Triceratops. The characters of the original Star Wars were all instant legends, we didn't need to wait years or decades to verify that. To a lesser extent the Terminator, Forrest Gump (it helps when the character's name is the title, lol, but still they DID resonate) Frodo, Gandalf, Jack Sparrow, and a few others have instantly resonated throughout the world.

I think that BB-8 and Kylo at least are up there where Jack was in 2003. Maybe Rey too (though someone might need to say "Rey from Star Wars" since her name itself isn't unique.")

Unfortunately most of your examples are already pretty dated! I get your point, but we really have to wonder if icons are indeed still possible in this day and age, like Khev suggested.

 

[Khev]

To borrow an argument I believe Khev has made in the past--it's much much harder for anything to become "iconic" in this day and age, when we're constantly bombarded with new information.

Yes, in an era where you can possibly argue that "Keyboard Cat" or "Grumpy Cat" or Angry Birds are global icons it begs the question as to whether anything is really that big of a deal anymore. We're all so connected and whatever new thing can just spread like wildfire and really permeate. On the one hand it does make it a bit more impressive when something does rise above the social media palp (like BB-8) and on another it just makes it, once again, that much more unimpressive when something like Avatar failed to even resonate at all.