Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)
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Kamandi
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
CGI is not necessarily easier, for the most part it's used in cases where you simply can't do something realistically with miniatures. For instance, a spaceship battle is much easier to do with CG because you can copy and past most things, doing it with models would take way way longer and probably wouldn't look as good because you wouldn't be able to get the animations as good and you wouldn't be able to get correct lighting just all because of so many elements you'd need to film separately.
For things like characters it's used because you have the ability to have way more articulation than an animatronic can give you--for instance with Jurassic park which had amazing practical FX you can tell the difference because the animatronic dinosaurs are very stiff and things move very mechanically.
Some things can definitely be a mistake--like the Clones in the PT, they could have done much better by having a few sets of armor made and film real actors with CG in the background. Or even some of the stuff that was blown up could have been done better by exploding a miniature.
I think the failure of the CGI PT was the choice to do so many things that couldn't be done without CGI, where people would go in knowing it's fake because there's no other way to do it.
CGI is not necessarily easier, for the most part it's used in cases where you simply can't do something realistically with miniatures. For instance, a spaceship battle is much easier to do with CG because you can copy and past most things, doing it with models would take way way longer and probably wouldn't look as good because you wouldn't be able to get the animations as good and you wouldn't be able to get correct lighting just all because of so many elements you'd need to film separately.
For things like characters it's used because you have the ability to have way more articulation than an animatronic can give you--for instance with Jurassic park which had amazing practical FX you can tell the difference because the animatronic dinosaurs are very stiff and things move very mechanically.
Some things can definitely be a mistake--like the Clones in the PT, they could have done much better by having a few sets of armor made and film real actors with CG in the background. Or even some of the stuff that was blown up could have been done better by exploding a miniature.
I think the failure of the CGI PT was the choice to do so many things that couldn't be done without CGI, where people would go in knowing it's fake because there's no other way to do it.
stshammgod
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ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Quality is pretty much irrelevant to his point.
Do we deny that Justin Beiber is some phenomon because his music sucks ***? Rabid fan base has nothing to do with being better or worse than anything from the past.
Quality is pretty much irrelevant to his point.
Do we deny that Justin Beiber is some phenomon because his music sucks ***? Rabid fan base has nothing to do with being better or worse than anything from the past.
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
So you loved everything you saw as a kid simply because you were a kid? You had no power of discernment whatsoever? Howard the Duck was literally every bit as cool as Star Wars?
So you loved everything you saw as a kid simply because you were a kid? You had no power of discernment whatsoever? Howard the Duck was literally every bit as cool as Star Wars?
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
True but the same point should be made to the people who defend the PT with ''kids love it''.
True but the same point should be made to the people who defend the PT with ''kids love it''.
lerath666
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
I was going to reply, but
Did an excellent job of mkaing my point for me. Nostalgia from our youth Can makes things FAR better than they Actualy are. The Films OWN qualtiy will determine how well it will hold up in the long run.
The PT is of a lesser quality in many parts ( ATOC in particular, for this example) than the OT.
Hell, I LOVE the old G1 Transformers and GI Joe cartoons. I'm under no illusions as to their quality compared to more modern cartoons, like, for example, Avatar the last Airbender, or the recent TMNT CGI toon.
But I still love them.
As such, the Kids who get to see the new trilogy, Will undoubtably LOVE it far more than most of us who are older will.
Fun observation, speaking of the OT.
It's VERY HARD to get NEW people these days into star wars, if you start with A New Hope. ESB is a better starting point..... and in some cases, so is Phantom Menace.
I was going to reply, but
Did an excellent job of mkaing my point for me. Nostalgia from our youth Can makes things FAR better than they Actualy are. The Films OWN qualtiy will determine how well it will hold up in the long run.
The PT is of a lesser quality in many parts ( ATOC in particular, for this example) than the OT.
Hell, I LOVE the old G1 Transformers and GI Joe cartoons. I'm under no illusions as to their quality compared to more modern cartoons, like, for example, Avatar the last Airbender, or the recent TMNT CGI toon.
But I still love them.
As such, the Kids who get to see the new trilogy, Will undoubtably LOVE it far more than most of us who are older will.
Fun observation, speaking of the OT.
It's VERY HARD to get NEW people these days into star wars, if you start with A New Hope. ESB is a better starting point..... and in some cases, so is Phantom Menace.
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
So all the critics that raved about Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back in 1977 and 1980 were kids? Little kids nominated SW for Best Picture? Who knew.
So all the critics that raved about Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back in 1977 and 1980 were kids? Little kids nominated SW for Best Picture? Who knew.
lerath666
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
If you were 6 -9 when you saw it, you might think so at the time, and it might even hold a special place in your heart. And if you go LONG BOUTS of time between watching it, your memory will even blot out the hokeyish parts, or the slower parts that drag on and on and on. the GREAT parts will overshadow all the not so great parts.
I'm going to get severely flamed for this, BUT.....
Burton's Batman films are a good example of this phenomina.
Children are generaly eaisly empressed, ( but not allways) and are creatures of wonder. They have less life expierence, so it's easier for them to become enraptured with something.
Also, for the record, I don't see a best picture nomination in it's pedigree.
It DID win Oscars in 81 for Best Sound, and Special achievement for visual effects, and was nominated for, but did not win Best art, and best music.
If you were 6 -9 when you saw it, you might think so at the time, and it might even hold a special place in your heart. And if you go LONG BOUTS of time between watching it, your memory will even blot out the hokeyish parts, or the slower parts that drag on and on and on. the GREAT parts will overshadow all the not so great parts.
I'm going to get severely flamed for this, BUT.....
Burton's Batman films are a good example of this phenomina.
Children are generaly eaisly empressed, ( but not allways) and are creatures of wonder. They have less life expierence, so it's easier for them to become enraptured with something.
Also, for the record, I don't see a best picture nomination in it's pedigree.
It DID win Oscars in 81 for Best Sound, and Special achievement for visual effects, and was nominated for, but did not win Best art, and best music.
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Magpie 7
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Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Howard the Duck, was that when GL's reputation began to dive?
Howard the Duck, was that when GL's reputation began to dive?
lerath666
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Not at all. But don't kid yourself. it got good, bad, and mediocre reviews from critics back then, just like everything else.
Here is a negative review from the New York times Entitled
'The Empire Strikes Back' Strikes a Bland Note
https://www.nytimes.com/library/film/061580empire.html
It depends largely on the personal opinion of the viewer.
BUT, not to undermine you, the OT in general, and ESB in particular has doen something that most things we have nostalgia don't do.
ESB Has Aged well.
Out of the Original TRilogy, Empire is the Strongest film ( if not my favorite) and the best overall Movie. YOu can go back and watch it today, and while it will not nessacaraly evoke the same sense of wonder it did to you as a child, It is STILL enjoyable.
I'm not sure the same can be said of ATOC, for example.
Not at all. But don't kid yourself. it got good, bad, and mediocre reviews from critics back then, just like everything else.
Here is a negative review from the New York times Entitled
'The Empire Strikes Back' Strikes a Bland Note
https://www.nytimes.com/library/film/061580empire.html
It depends largely on the personal opinion of the viewer.
BUT, not to undermine you, the OT in general, and ESB in particular has doen something that most things we have nostalgia don't do.
ESB Has Aged well.
Out of the Original TRilogy, Empire is the Strongest film ( if not my favorite) and the best overall Movie. YOu can go back and watch it today, and while it will not nessacaraly evoke the same sense of wonder it did to you as a child, It is STILL enjoyable.
I'm not sure the same can be said of ATOC, for example.
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
To question whether or not AOTC has aged well is to assume that it was good in 2002.
But nevertheless it appears you get the point. The PT ain't no ESB, and age has nothing to do with it.
To question whether or not AOTC has aged well is to assume that it was good in 2002.
But nevertheless it appears you get the point. The PT ain't no ESB, and age has nothing to do with it.
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Am I saying any crap is as good as SW? No. Thats not the point.
There's no doubt that SW is better than Howard the Duck or EBS better than AOTC. But lets not kid ourselves. My point is that crap gets loved by society too.
I laughed at the idiot 90s kids who liked Power Rangers. I scoffed at the idiot 2000s kids that like Pokemon.
I go back to watch TMNT and GI Joe and wonder if I was also an idiot. I'm sure the people who grew up with the Flintstones or Looney Tunes thought I was.
I've been around way too long to expect good things to be loved like they should and bad things to be scorned like they should.
With the power of marketing and the influence SW has all over the culture, I'm certain whether the New Tril is good or bad its gonna have a fan base.
Am I saying any crap is as good as SW? No. Thats not the point.
There's no doubt that SW is better than Howard the Duck or EBS better than AOTC. But lets not kid ourselves. My point is that crap gets loved by society too.
I laughed at the idiot 90s kids who liked Power Rangers. I scoffed at the idiot 2000s kids that like Pokemon.
I go back to watch TMNT and GI Joe and wonder if I was also an idiot. I'm sure the people who grew up with the Flintstones or Looney Tunes thought I was.
I've been around way too long to expect good things to be loved like they should and bad things to be scorned like they should.
With the power of marketing and the influence SW has all over the culture, I'm certain whether the New Tril is good or bad its gonna have a fan base.
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Well that's great but hardly the topic of the current discussion.
Well that's great but hardly the topic of the current discussion.
lerath666
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
I get yours, you're still missing mine. I'm saying it's got a fan base, much like the OT does, and is just as loved by its fans.
To determine if it's aged well, ask someone who was 9 when they saw it in 2002, AND loved it, If they STILL love it today, or if they are put off by its Flaws ( Like i am, for example, with Burtonman.) Then ask several others, and see if it's more likely that those who loved it Still love it, or not, as a whole.
Bayformers.
No, it was pretty on-topic to my point.
Thaat being, it's generation of viewers is going to LOVE it as much as you do the OT.
To question whether or not AOTC has aged well is to assume that it was good in 2002.
But nevertheless it appears you get the point. The PT ain't no ESB, and age has nothing to do with it.
I get yours, you're still missing mine. I'm saying it's got a fan base, much like the OT does, and is just as loved by its fans.
To determine if it's aged well, ask someone who was 9 when they saw it in 2002, AND loved it, If they STILL love it today, or if they are put off by its Flaws ( Like i am, for example, with Burtonman.) Then ask several others, and see if it's more likely that those who loved it Still love it, or not, as a whole.
Bayformers.
No, it was pretty on-topic to my point.
Thaat being, it's generation of viewers is going to LOVE it as much as you do the OT.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
Khev on a roll!
Go Khev!
To question whether or not AOTC has aged well is to assume that it was good in 2002.
But nevertheless it appears you get the point. The PT ain't no ESB, and age has nothing to do with it.
Khev on a roll!
Go Khev!
Kamandi
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
The first Star Wars film was the Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven.
The Empire Strikes Back was a essentially a chase film.
Both are formulas that worked. Good guys, bad guys, simple plot.
Th PT films had meandering plots and no sense of direction. The story that was structured most like a real SW film was Phantom Menace but it's a tough film to like if you're over 10 years old.
The first Star Wars film was the Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven.
The Empire Strikes Back was a essentially a chase film.
Both are formulas that worked. Good guys, bad guys, simple plot.
Th PT films had meandering plots and no sense of direction. The story that was structured most like a real SW film was Phantom Menace but it's a tough film to like if you're over 10 years old.
lerath666
Super Freak
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
True. ROTS, and ATOC also feel VERY disconnected from each other.
True. ROTS, and ATOC also feel VERY disconnected from each other.
jye4ever
Broke and happy
Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread
ANH is a perfect film.
ESB is a better film.
How can that be?
Because of the one BIG difference between the 2.
SW can be enjoyed alone! Medals are given at the end, perfect ending! SW stands on its own with no sequel required.
ESB is a better, more interesting and visually impressive movie than ANH, which is a miracle in itself following what came before.
BUT, ESB can't be enjoyed on its own merits like ANH can, it needs ANH to give it purpose.
So while I still prefer ESB over ANH, ANH is stil the perfect SW movie.
ANH is a perfect film.
ESB is a better film.
How can that be?
Because of the one BIG difference between the 2.
SW can be enjoyed alone! Medals are given at the end, perfect ending! SW stands on its own with no sequel required.
ESB is a better, more interesting and visually impressive movie than ANH, which is a miracle in itself following what came before.
BUT, ESB can't be enjoyed on its own merits like ANH can, it needs ANH to give it purpose.
So while I still prefer ESB over ANH, ANH is stil the perfect SW movie.
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