Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[Python]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

ESB can't be enjoyed on its own merits like ANH can, it needs ANH to give it purpose.

So while I still prefer ESB over ANH, ANH is stil the perfect SW movie.

I understand what you are saying, but I do disagree to an extent. If I were to try and get somebody interested in Star wars, my GF for example, I would sit her down and put ESB on, of all the SW movies, this is by far the best in almost every way, story, sets, emotion, everything.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I understand what you are saying, but I do disagree to an extent. If I were to try and get somebody interested in Star wars, my GF for example, I would sit her down and put ESB on, of all the SW movies, this is by far the best in almost every way, story, sets, emotion, everything.

No, you actually agreed with me.

ESB is the better and more interesting movie.

But its that way only because of ANH.

ANH is perfect, but that has nothing to do with ESB.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I like ANH of course but whenever I watch it I can't help but feel impatient to move on to ESB, and yeah even ROTJ for its Jabba stuff, the space battle and the Emperor, Luke & Vader stuff.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I understand what you are saying, but I do disagree to an extent. If I were to try and get somebody interested in Star wars, my GF for example, I would sit her down and put ESB on, of all the SW movies, this is by far the best in almost every way, story, sets, emotion, everything.

Totally disagree if you're talking about someone who has never seen Star Wars.

Without seeing ANH no one would care about Luke being lost in the snow, they'd be confused by Han and Leia's relationship. They'd wonder what was so important about being a Jedi. What's with the ghost? Its all built on ANH.

Personally, I like all the required character introductions and such that ANH provides. ANH is still the film I put in if I want to watch a SW movie maybe 50% of the time.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Meh. ANH started right in the middle of the story and nobody complained.

ESB works just fine by itself. It starts off right after a previous victory by the Rebellion (stealing the secret plans/destroying the Death Star) and ends with Vader being foiled but still alive. In both movies Luke learns about the Force and uses it at the end to survive.

The only difference is that everyone cheers at the end of ANH and ESB is kind of a downer.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Meh. ANH started right in the middle of the story and nobody complained.

ESB works just fine by itself. It starts off right after a previous victory by the Rebellion (stealing the secret plans/destroying the Death Star) and ends with Vader being foiled but still alive. In both movies Luke learns about the Force and uses it at the end to survive.

The only difference is that everyone cheers at the end of ANH and ESB is kind of a downer.

ANH doesn't really start in the middle if you believe it's a story about Luke.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

ANH doesn't really start in the middle if you believe it's a story about Luke.

Sure it does. Do we see him learning about the Rebellion for the first time? Or bullseyeing womprats in his T16? Or meeting Ben Kenobi? Nah, he's a capable and knowledgeable dude with his own history who goes on a very specific journey. Just like in ESB.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

LOL. Thats crazy talk. Basically you're saying the saga would be the same if they went straight from ROTS to ESB.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Sure it does. Do we see him learning about the Rebellion for the first time? Or bullseyeing womprats in his T16? Or meeting Ben Kenobi? Nah, he's a capable and knowledgeable dude with his own history who goes on a very specific journey. Just like in ESB.

I rather not discuss where we saw Luke before ANH, ok.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

LOL. Thats crazy talk. Basically you're saying the saga would be the same if they went straight from ROTS to ESB.

Nope. What I'm basically saying is this:

Meh. ANH started right in the middle of the story and nobody complained.

ESB works just fine by itself. It starts off right after a previous victory by the Rebellion (stealing the secret plans/destroying the Death Star) and ends with Vader being foiled but still alive. In both movies Luke learns about the Force and uses it at the end to survive.

The only difference is that everyone cheers at the end of ANH and ESB is kind of a downer.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I rather not discuss where we saw Luke before ANH, ok.

Wise man.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Nope. What I'm basically saying is this:

Wait, are you saying that the story from ROTS to ESB is one smooth and coherent narrative.

 

[RavenEye]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

lol at all of OT prurists... smh if y'all were true SW purists, you wouldn't say ANH. Instead just SW.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Wait, are you saying that the story from ROTS to ESB is one smooth and coherent narrative.

Think about ESB though. The reason we all assume that backstory is crucial is because ANH was so awesome. But if prior to ANH we first saw this amazing movie about Han meeting Chewie, them dealing with Jabba and dropping their cargo in an epic chase with Imperial Cruisers and Ben kicking *** in the desert and Luke saving the day in his T16 while Leia's troops achieve this amazing "first victory" against the Empire and escape with stolen plans we'd be all "ANH was cool but you HAVE to have that awesome setup from the first movie for it to work. You can't just have Han and Greedo talking about Jabba when the audience doesn't know who he is or Luke ready to just jump in an X-Wing that he's never flown before."

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

lol at all of OT prurists... smh if y'all were true SW purists, you wouldn't say ANH. Instead just SW.

Good point.

STAR WARS will always be my fave. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees ESB is the better film, but the first one is so powerful in a myriad of ways - not least of which being the cultural impact it had - & the shock wave it's still creating to this day. The history behind the first film alone is gold.

Plus - the 70s was an amazing decade for film.. I'm just in love with the period - probably too much

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Think about ESB though. The reason we all assume that backstory is crucial is because ANH was so awesome. But if prior to ANH we first saw this amazing movie about Han meeting Chewie, them dealing with Jabba and dropping their cargo in an epic chase with Imperial Cruisers and Ben kicking *** in the desert and Luke saving the day in his T16 while Leia's troops achieve this amazing "first victory" against the Empire and escape with stolen plans we'd be all "ANH was cool but you HAVE to have that awesome setup from the first movie for it to work. You can't just have Han and Greedo talking about Jabba when the audience doesn't know who he is or Luke ready to just jump in an X-Wing that he's never flown before."

Please Khev, no more prequels.

 

[FQRizzo]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Please Khev, no more prequels.

But I have to know where he gets the ice cream maker from...

 

[Kamandi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

But I have to know where he gets the ice cream maker from...

The most noble man on Cloud City...

.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Think about ESB though. The reason we all assume that backstory is crucial is because ANH was so awesome. But if prior to ANH we first saw this amazing movie about Han meeting Chewie, them dealing with Jabba and dropping their cargo in an epic chase with Imperial Cruisers and Ben kicking *** in the desert and Luke saving the day in his T16 while Leia's troops achieve this amazing "first victory" against the Empire and escape with stolen plans we'd be all "ANH was cool but you HAVE to have that awesome setup from the first movie for it to work. You can't just have Han and Greedo talking about Jabba when the audience doesn't know who he is or Luke ready to just jump in an X-Wing that he's never flown before."

Except, you CAN make the comparison between what was really shown and not make ups some fake film.

1)Meeting a young star gazing and immature boy (who quickly grows up) is more valuable than meeting a guy who gets lost in the snow and for some unknown reason is really missed by his buddy.
2)Meeting Obi-Wan via his rescue of Luke, as well as explaining the force and sacrificing his body is a stronger introduction that a ghost speaking to some injured kid explaining something about Jedi Masters and training when you have no clue what a Jedi is in the first place.
3)Han and Leia having some weird relationship in a snow corridor without first witnessing the Death Star rescue doesn't make any sense.
4)Why is this Darth Vader guy after Luke? Why should we be threatened by him, his intro is a late arrival for a battle to watch everyone fly off. What a putz villian.
5)Why is it so shocking to Luke that Vader is his father? Didn't we need the build up from ANH that Vader killed his father to feel that shock? It wouldn't be shocking if we only first heard about it on Bespin.

Thats just some of the stuff that we all hold for granted because we actually saw ANH.

If ANH never existed then ESB would be a who cares film.

 

[Khev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Except, you CAN make the comparison between what was really shown and not make ups some fake film.

1)Meeting a young star gazing and immature boy (who quickly grows up) is more valuable than meeting a guy who gets lost in the snow and for some unknown reason is really missed by his buddy.

Listen to yourself. For some "unknown reason" a guy misses his buddy? You really can't comprehend why someone would miss a friend? Top Gun must have blown your mind when Maverick went after Cougar in the first 15 minutes of the movie. You know what, I'm going to concede this point to you. I think ESB *would* have been dreadfully confusing to you without ANH.

The rest of us, not so much.