Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[a-dev]

Who said it was. Yeah, that was a brutal line. I remember my reaction when I first heard it - something like this

 

[ShadowX81]

It’s funny. You can count on one hand all the ST defenders and just laugh at some of the remarks made. About how the ST was such a huge impact. Yea it made an impact alright. Making people not care about star wars anymore. There is absolutely no hype for TROS. PT beat the franchise up badly but it healed its wounds afterwards and kept going, ST beat the franchise with a crowbar and burned its house down.

Not to mention the fact that even though the prequels were and continue to be disappointing to a lot of people, the ideas introduced were at least interesting enough to get kids invested (I should know, I grew up on the prequels). You couldn't keep those toys on the shelves. I owned a whole truckload of them.

You're describing the slave boy Anakin as he perhaps *should've been* portrayed. But that's not the "little Ani" we see on screen. Instead, we get a portrayal devoid of any of the characterization that you're attributing to the writing. If he was demonstrably resentful of his enslavement, we wouldn't have seen him exclaiming "BOOM!" and irreverently slapping his hand on the table when describing what would happen to a slave if the perimeter devices they wear got triggered. The "he's just acting like a kid" excuse doesn't cut it, because you can't have it both ways. His portrayal can't be expected to convey the gravity of the deep insights you attribute to him while simultaneously making him seem like a carefree kid jubilantly making his way through the day.

Anakin wasn't portrayed as so much of a "disposable piece of property" when Lucas went out of his way to have Watto talk up the boy's skills at fixing things and racing pods. Watto valued Anakin's skills, and Anakin knew it. The idea of a "lonely, sad" boy is undercut by his group of friends gathered around his pod racer (one even exclaiming how "wizard" it was), and by his exclamations of "YIPPIE!!" He was presented as a boy who raced pods in major events, built his own droid, and had enough value to Watto where Anakin didn't seem the least bit intimidated by him. He was clearly loved by his mother, and confident/arrogant enough to be confrontational with Sebulba without any apparent fear of severe repercussions.

This is where I think the prequels made the biggest misstep. Making Anakin a kid in the first movie and then replacing him at age 20 in AOTC meant that he was essentially starting from scratch as a character in the second movie. They should have made him in his mid teens in Episode 1 (Padme's age would have been good) and it could have naturally built that layer into his character concerning his frustration over being a slave and lack of agency in his life.
Not to mention it would have fixed the unfortunate problem of Jake Lloyd's acting and taken away the icky aspect of the Padme romance that comes later.
Might have even made a decision to stow away on the queen's ship and get involved in the final battle against Qui-Gon's orders actually be a cool moment for him.

And he wasn't "taken away from his mother." He was freed, and encouraged to go. His mother was grateful, and even reassuring when asking Anakin, "What does your heart tell you?" The young version of this character may have been in a setting that could've lead to rich character depth, but the execution didn't match the potential.

I never got why Padme never went back after the events of the first movie to free Anakin's mom. She probably could have gotten the cash together. Also revealing this to Anakin in Episode 2 could have been something for him to bond with her over.

Honestly the whole roles should have been reversed in that movie. With Padme being flirtatious with the young handsome Jedi and he the conflicted one trying to reconcile his attraction to her with the vows he had taken.

Even if Dooku was "a Master Jedi disenchanted with the Status Quo," he still ended up in servitude to Sidious. How is that so different from the disenchantment with the Republic/Jedi Order that Anakin experienced. What role Dooku actually played, and how much he knew, remains relatively unclear to this day. I don't even think Dooku's role as apprentice "Darth Tyranus" is one that all fans fully understand.

With a little bit of foresight he could have been thrown in Episode 1 as a Jedi council member who privately encourages Qui Gon to "play the game" a little bit more in order to win favor with the order, who then resigns at the end after Qui Gon is killed. Could have added a lot to a character that should have been more interesting.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Oh yeah because Rose Tico's "I saved you dummy. That's how we're gonna win. Not fighting what we hate, saving what we love." is so much better

Nope, ST and PT both equally abhorrent in their own unique ways.

PT has better toys is about all I can say.

 

[ironwez20]

Pt had better moments. Good and bad

 

[Captain Clown]

PT has better toys is about all I can say.

I agree.

 

[slikkerias]

It’s funny. You can count on one hand all the ST defenders and just laugh at some of the remarks made. About how the ST was such a huge impact. Yea it made an impact alright. Making people not care about star wars anymore. There is absolutely no hype for TROS. PT beat the franchise up badly but it healed its wounds afterwards and kept going, ST beat the franchise with a crowbar and burned its house down.

...so melodramatic. You mean it burned the house down for YOU.
I’ve been breathing SW since I was a kid many many years ago and while I don’t care too much about the PT (only really loathe TPM) and find that TFA and Solo didn’t really add much to the world, I love TLJ and Rogue One. That’s another opinion for you. And I’m aware that it’s not universal.

 

[Reefer Shark]

...so melodramatic. You mean it burned the house down for YOU.
I’ve been breathing SW since I was a kid many many years ago and while I don’t care too much about the PT (only really loathe TPM) and find that TFA and Solo didn’t really add much to the world, I love TLJ and Rogue One. That’s another opinion for you. And I’m aware that it’s not universal.

Im with you on this sentiment. Those *online* that hate PT/ST/whatever seem to think that opinion is universal among fans, and maybe thats because of all the louder negative voices on the internet. But I have to say, the fans I talk to in person at work and such don't seem to have this negative outook and actually are excited for TROS. Why is that?

I’ve been in it since ‘77 and am still as excited as ever to get new Star Wars content. The negative points in the new movies dont ruin anything for me, just like they didn't in the older stuff. Holiday Special happened, but that didnt kill the excitement for ESB or ROTJ.. Ewoks movies happened, but still excitement for TPM was off the charts.

If you look at discussions on the internet, the current viewers expectations are so high, its nearly impossible to meet them. It’s either Endgame quality or it’s trash basically, and thats sad because it really shows that people are forgetting to let go and enjoy movies for what they are.

 

[ironwez20]

...so melodramatic. You mean it burned the house down for YOU.
I’ve been breathing SW since I was a kid many many years ago and while I don’t care too much about the PT (only really loathe TPM) and find that TFA and Solo didn’t really add much to the world, I love TLJ and Rogue One. That’s another opinion for you. And I’m aware that it’s not universal.

Really? Then why does it feel like the fan base as a whole is so divided then?

 

[xipotec]

Really? Then why does it feel like the fan base as a whole is so divided then?

I think is divided also, but its been that way since PT.

Just read this thread. Some people apparently like PT......And other like the ST.

So the division occurred many many years ago. ST just highlighted more differences in the fan base than people knew.

I am always amazed when people claim AOTC is even watchable...:at all. But some fans love swinging lightsabers like crazy, massive CGI set pieces and tender love stories mixed together.



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Wor-Gar]

RO is outstanding, so that alone makes Disney's plunge into Star Wars worthwhile. It will be the only new SW I watch with any regularity.

I just can't sit through the PT anymore, I feel like I'm watching a cartoon for 8 year olds.


The only Star Wars movies I still enjoy are: ANH, ESB and RO


See, not even all the OT make it in. With some sequence exceptions, ROTJ is just as hard to watch as the PT for me.

 

[ironwez20]

I think is divided also, but its been that way since PT.

Just read this thread. Some people apparently like PT......And other like the ST.

So the division occurred many many years ago. ST just highlighted more differences in the fan base than people knew.

I am always amazed when people claim AOTC is even watchable...:at all. But some fans love swinging lightsabers like crazy, massive CGI set pieces and tender love stories mixed together.



Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

If it was divided before then this movie made it even more so divided. Aotc May suck but this did damage.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Watching Empire on TNT right now...

One thing that seems to be forgotten in the ST is the "used galaxy" look. Everyone is dirty in Empire, especially Luke and Yoda. I can't remember anyone in the ST being dirty, even after a TIE crash. But then, the PT is also unusually clean. All that CGI, all shiny and sparkly. Only time I remember dirty clothes is when Anakin and Obi are fighting in lava.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Watching Empire on TNT right now...

One thing that seems to be forgotten in the ST is the "used galaxy" look. Everyone is dirty in Empire, especially Luke and Yoda.

Vader was shiny AF tho.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Vader was shiny AF tho.

Yeah, 'clean' equated to "not to be trusted" in the OT. The Empire and Lando's Cloud City were both too clean. It was a nice touch.

Now, since everyone in the ST is basically clean, they have to have their "empire" be so clean they are greasy shiny with satin uniforms.

 

[xipotec]

Watching Empire on TNT right now...

One thing that seems to be forgotten in the ST is the "used galaxy" look. Everyone is dirty in Empire, especially Luke and Yoda. I can't remember anyone in the ST being dirty, even after a TIE crash. But then, the PT is also unusually clean. All that CGI, all shiny and sparkly. Only time I remember dirty clothes is when Anakin and Obi are fighting in lava.

Well they sweat alot .....


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[TaliBane]

Yeah, 'clean' equated to "not to be trusted" in the OT. The Empire and Lando's Cloud City were both too clean. It was a nice touch.

Now, since everyone in the ST is basically clean, they have to have their "empire" be so clean they are greasy shiny with satin uniforms.

Khev sees Rey as bit dirty.

Well they sweat alot .....


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

That's mostly Finn and Poe that do all the sweating though.

 

[aussiebottt]

I am always amazed when people claim AOTC is even watchable...:at all. But some fans love swinging lightsabers like crazy, massive CGI set pieces and tender love stories mixed together.

Yep AOTC is underrated. I am equally amazed some people enjoyed TFA & TLJ. I've seen them twice each and that's it - I don't think I could physically sit through them again. But the PT I have watched many times over and could happily sit down and watch them again. Funny how much YMMV comes into play with people's opinions.

 

[slikkerias]

I believe that TLJ will be one of the most appreciated SW movies in the future... I know that a lot of people will call me an idiot for saying that, but I really do. (...with a ‘directors cut’ it could be a brilliant movie)
...but Wor is right, only R1 has been dirty enough since ESB

 

[TaliBane]

I believe that TLJ will be one of the most appreciated SW movies in the future... I know that a lot of people will call me an idiot for saying that, but I really do. (...with a ‘directors cut’ it could be a brilliant movie)
...but Wor is right, only R1 has been dirty enough since ESB

You're an idiot.

But... I will add TLJ to the "underappreciated films" thread. I mean it does kinda qualify.

 

[xipotec]

Khev sees Rey as bit dirty.



That's mostly Finn and Poe that do all the sweating though.

Keep your fantasies out of it....she sweats also.....

Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....