Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Sachiel]

Yes, and as referred to in those panels, he grew up near a "Force tree" grown from saplings Luke recovered from the Empire immediately after ROTJ. They may have been from the tree on Ahch-To.

So somehow young Poe was pollinated with the force tree's midichlorians?

 

[Popnfresh98]

So... what did Luke go through again to get so jaded?

What did he lose, why was he lonely, which friends suffered? Honestly, I only saw TFA and TLJ once and I frankly have no idea what the answers are. I get that one of his students went septic maybe 7-10 years earlier, and it was Han and Leia's son, but so much of that backstory is foggy and muddled (perhaps deliberately so) that it's hard to figure out exactly what happened and when...

Yeah exactly, RotJ was the traditional happy ending, no one was suffering there. It was the hero’s grand victory. Clearly Luke was suffering dementia/paranoia in the TLJ flash back, but again no one was truly suffering until Ben woke up to Luke above his bed ready to murder him. That’s when he lost his academy and all those people. Lonely and jaded only makes sense *after* that, not leading up to it, as is being implied. (Though of course they can retcon anything as they’ve already done it a few times in the ST)

No, BS... that is not the actual text, right? It kinda looks a bit photoshopy.

Yeah that’s just their new ‘slick’ style. Here’s the original article with the comic scans: https://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/05/16/star-wars-poe-dameron-force-abilities-marvel-comics/

No PS lol

So somehow young Poe was pollinated with the force tree's midichlorians?

The science checks out!

 

[Sachiel]

Rian Johnson says that his way of filmmaking is to divide the fanbase because it's just more exciting to him.

Postmodernism


Deconstruction


S U B V E R S I O N

 

[Popnfresh98]

 

[Wor-Gar]

Vader = Evil man, done much, much wrong. Luke: There’s still good in him, forgiven.

Ben = child /nephew lightly flirting with dark side, done absolutely nothing wrong yet. Luke: Murder him in his sleep.

...

 

[xipotec]

No, it’s what you said above that makes no sense. You turned it around backwards and are coming at it from some really strange angle.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but:

Look at the meme again. It explains everything.

Vader = Evil man, done much, much wrong. Luke: There’s still good in him, forgiven.

Ben = child /nephew lightly flirting with dark side, done absolutely nothing wrong yet. Luke: Murder him in his sleep.

We’re not even shown why or how Luke came to that conclusion, we’re just told to buy it. Screenwriting 101 there

Ah some reason I thought you meant Ben Kenobi....

I dunno, but I do not see Luke as a Happy person in the last shot of ROTJ. He’s off all alone, it’s only when Leia comes for him that he seems to be happy again.

To me he seemed like the outsider , and no one in the remaining group would ever understand what he went thorough.

As far as what got him to think about killing Kylo.....simple .....pressure. He was leading the new Jedi temple and the entire time he must have been concerned that he would create another dark Jedi that could end up like his father. He said he could feel Young Ben tuning to the dark side, and in his own weakness and fear, He thought he should end it before it began again. I find this totally plausible with his impulsive character. The immense pressure from everyone looking toward him to fix everything and make it right would definitely cause many to crack. And it’s sorta his continued point about the Rebels always looking to him to take charge and make sure everything stays on course.

It doesn’t take much to get Luke riled up. He was goaded by Vader into almost falling to the dark side under the threat of his sister. I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to get to the point where he feels the only way to prevent another Vader was to strike down Ben before he became too powerful to defeat. This was just as much a story about Luke’s dark side and fears as anything else. The entire plot deals with it. I never saw Luke as some perfect hero in any of the films. He was VERY flawed and came out on the good side only after a lot of struggles. It’s not reasonable to think he would be immune to those struggles for the rest of his life.

I know we disagree, but seeing Luke as some perfect white knight, that saves the day and is the perfect Jedi would have been boring as hell to me.....

Rey’s character is suffering from this currently in most people’s eyes...


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[TaliBane]

Ah some reason I thought you meant Ben Kenobi....

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OMG... I constantly forget that Kylo's real name is Ben.

Wouldn't you love to be a fly on the wall as Han and Leia discuss naming little bubby after the crazy old man. No prize for figuring out who wore the pants in that coupling.

What a nonsensical and eternally confusing thing for fandom to have to carry forward - "oh, you meant Kylo-Ben? I thought you meant OT or PT Ben..."

 

[TaliBane]

He said he could feel Young Ben tuning to the dark side, and in his own weakness and fear, He thought he should end it before it began again. I find this totally plausible with his impulsive character.


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I see this mentioned a lot. But isn't the simple truth that pretty much EVERY young Jedi in training goes through a temptation of the dark side? And therefore every Jedi instructor's job to point this out and talk pupils through it? It would be kind of an expected thing, not this "OMG! Look what's happened!" thing.

And also what a Jedi "sees" - ie Luke somehow foreseeing Ben/Kylo succumbing to the dark side - may or may not actually happen. Yoda made that "seeing the future" thing pretty clear.

It is one of the failings of ROTJ that despite all-black outfits and robot hands/gloves they didn't show Luke go further toward turning to the dark side (there was never a moment where that was in doubt) but TLJ seems to treat turning to the dark side as this highly unusual and also preordained thing when the exact opposite is true.

I dunno, but I do not see Luke as a Happy person in the last shot of ROTJ. He’s off all alone, it’s only when Leia comes for him that he seems to be happy again. To me he seemed like the outsider , and no one in the remaining group would ever understand what he went thorough.

Never really felt that way about the ending of ROTJ - he is at the end of his path of self discovery. He's placed apart from everyone else because it might have been confusing if the crowd saw the Jedi ghosts (Ewok stampede?)

The immense pressure from everyone looking toward him to fix everything and make it right would definitely cause many to crack. And it’s sorta his continued point about the Rebels always looking to him to take charge and make sure everything stays on course.

This is the confusion again - there's little sense in the OT (while 30 years earlier, the direct timeline precursor to the ST) that anyone is looking at Luke to fix everything or make things right. The Rebellion in truth asks little of Luke throughout the OT - at all.

So again, not sure where this idea of Luke burdened/overwhelmed with demands and expectations comes from. It seems to be at the core of his TLJ persona yet has little to no basis in the OT.

It doesn’t take much to get Luke riled up. He was goaded by Vader into almost falling to the dark side under the threat of his sister. I don’t think it’s a stretch for him to get to the point where he feels the only way to prevent another Vader was to strike down Ben before he became too powerful to defeat. This was just as much a story about Luke’s dark side and fears as anything else.

You seriously felt that Vader very nearly successfully goaded Luke in ROTJ? As I pointed out above, this would have been interesting, but I'd argue there's no point in ROTJ where we believe Luke was now on the path to becoming a new Vader.

I never saw Luke as some perfect hero in any of the films. He was VERY flawed and came out on the good side only after a lot of struggles. It’s not reasonable to think he would be immune to those struggles for the rest of his life. I know we disagree, but seeing Luke as some perfect white knight, that saves the day and is the perfect Jedi would have been boring as hell to me.....

Rey’s character is suffering from this currently in most people’s eyes...

How is Luke flawed? And came out on the good side after a lot of struggles? What good/dark side struggles do you mean? He has great revelations in his journey in the OT, and realizations of abilities and unique gifts that he knows need to be nurtured, but his key struggle often seems to be doing what Yoda/Ben/the-Jedi-path tells him to do versus aiding his friends, or his youthful energy/arrogance versus doing the wiser thing.

That's not exactly a struggle with the good/dark side, and while technically a flaw (immaturity or innocence is a common character flaw in myth stories,) these are not flaws in the sense of Luke really struggling with the good and dark sides of the force.

 

[slickythesloth]

This is an amusing picture.... it not in a good way....

If you cannot accept that Luke would become Jaded after everything he had to go thorough , the loss, the loneliness, seeing his friends suffer on his behalf....

How can you possibly accept a father suddenly becoming good after killing children and spending years killing massive amounts of people, and bribing his own son to his “master” for possible murder....

Hypocrisy.


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[YoNoSe]

That meme was obviously made before young'ns realized the worst thing he does is follow a female authority figure.

 

[RIDDICK]

https://i.redd.it/iy2k7nv46fy01.jpg

Imperial media at work.

 

[YoNoSe]

LOL being a Star Wars fan entails a LOT of arguing. I’d switch to Star Trek but they can’t even agree if they’re Trekkies or Trekkers!

I’m glad I appreciate most SW content. So much less typing!

 

[a-dev]

So you're largely content with your SW content?

 

[YoNoSe]

So you're largely content with your SW content?

Short answer, yea.

 

[Wor-Gar]

A lot of people probably view Star Wars in this way.

 

[Prime Clone]

Attacks on military targets aren't terrorism.

 

[YoNoSe]

Attacks on military targets aren't terrorism.

We still don't know how those Bothans died. They might have bombed an orphanage for that ****.

*sarcasm font*

 

[TaliBane]

A lot of people probably view Star Wars in this way.

The writers of RO may have sipped a little of that Koolaid.

Attacks on military targets aren't terrorism.

Attack on the Pentagon on 9/11 seems to buck that trend.

 

[Captain Clown]

 

[EVILFACE]

Yea, he's prolly the same age as Luke was when he blew up a space station murdering millions except the main bad guy of the movie.