Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[zeiss]

Spoke to an old grad school friend who works at Disney this weekend. We talked briefly about TLJ and Solo and she mentioned Disney believes older Star Wars fans are a "given" and will go watch any Star Wars movie, so their goal with the franchise was to appeal to the next generation of fans with the storyline in TLJ. When I asked her about the poor box office performance for Solo she toed the line that they don't think Star Wars can sustain a movie every year and the fans got fatigued.

I wasn't going to get into a debate with her but very interesting that Disney thinks the old fans are simply a "given" and will watch "anything Star Wars".

If it is true that the fans were considered a "given" then that was the wrong way to go. However, I don't know if Solo's box office issues are only from the negative response to TLJ. Weren't the TLJ toys not selling well even before the movie had been released?

I wonder if there is a bigger issue in that not as people care about Star Wars as originally assumed. When TFA came out, everyone I knew that wasn't interested in Star Wars was excited to see the film as it was sold as this big event. Most of them walked out of the theater with a 'meh' reaction and with each subsequent film I have seen their excitement lessen.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Spoke to an old grad school friend who works at Disney this weekend. We talked briefly about TLJ and Solo and she mentioned Disney believes older Star Wars fans are a "given" and will go watch any Star Wars movie, so their goal with the franchise was to appeal to the next generation of fans with the storyline in TLJ. When I asked her about the poor box office performance for Solo she toed the line that they don't think Star Wars can sustain a movie every year and the fans got fatigued.

I wasn't going to get into a debate with her but very interesting that Disney thinks the old fans are simply a "given" and will watch "anything Star Wars".

That is interesting. Disney is always interested in the future -- its for kids mostly after all, so its always about the future. I suppose you have to think like that.

Problem they are not addressing is that their new "future" formula doesn't seem to be replacing the old fans who are dying off or dropping out with enough new fans of the new movies. Even if you gained one new fan for every lost fan, there's no growth there.

 

[Khev]

If older fans were a "given" and all they cared about was impressing younger audiences then they would have had Rey trained by Ahsoka Tano.

Hell one of the main complaints of all four Disney SW films is that they give too much fan service to original OT fans.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Hell one of the main complaints of all four Disney SW films is that they give too much fan service to original OT fans.

Maybe they don't see it so much as 'fan service' but more as a 'tie-in' to the old. They still want to sell all the old stuff to newbs as well.

 

[ajp4mgs]

That is interesting. Disney is always interested in the future -- its for kids mostly after all, so its always about the future. I suppose you have to think like that.

Problem they are not addressing is that their new "future" formula doesn't seem to be replacing the old fans who are dying off or dropping out with enough new fans of the new movies. Even if you gained one new fan for every lost fan, there's no growth there.

I think Force Awakens was their attempt to immediately set up a future for a new fan base with the new cast of characters, while simultaneously keeping the older fans on board by continuing the Skywalker Saga with Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Threepio, and Artoo. And after the box office performance that movie had, I could easily see them believing that they had succeeded beyond even their own expectations. Then Rogue One was probably more of a "safe bet" as a bone thrown to the older fan base (set right before ANH, and based entirely on what the original film had set up). That too was the most-watched film in the States, and made more than a a billion $ worldwide. Everything probably seemed like their forecasts/plan was on point.

Even TLJ might have been made as a calculated risk that might alienate some of the "old fans" but still be more of what the new/younger fans are interested in. The movie still outsold the other Disney/Universal/Sony/WB franchises that year. Still cleared well over $1 billion worldwide. But it missed their projections, which should have told them that the "old" fans won't keep going to repeat viewings just because it says "Star Wars" on the marquee.

The ticket sales for Solo is what should be sending shockwaves through them. Star Wars isn't the goose that lays golden eggs just by virtue of the name. Solo should be sending a clear sign that the old fan base can't be counted on to keep ringing the cash register no matter what. Having directors and executives insulting that fan base by throwing labels and slander their way is also an incredibly horrible approach. I don't think they have any idea how much that hurts them, and how dumb it is to keep injecting social and political messaging into SW that will automatically upset about half of the people you need to open their wallets for you.

Frankly, I've been stunned at the arrogance shown by LFL/Disney. I've enjoyed the films much more than I expected to, since I suffered from PTSD (Prequel Trilogy Stress Disorder). But I've had to do so by putting to the side all of the studio nonsense. And that's something they can easily stop. I hope they do, because Solo should tell them clearly that not every film with "Star Wars" in the title will be a guaranteed golden egg no matter how many insults they hurl and what social messaging they promote. If George Lucas stayed consistently smart in one way, it was this: make Star Wars accessible and enjoyable to everyone, no matter their politics, religion, gender, or personal values.

 

[Khev]

Having directors and executives insulting that fan base by throwing labels and slander their way is also an incredibly horrible approach. I don't think they have any idea how much that hurts them, and how dumb it is to keep injecting social and political messaging into SW that will automatically upset about half of the people you need to open their wallets for you.

Yep and I think that no matter anyone's opinions on the quality of the new films that this is something we probably all agree on. Going full "Ghostbuster's Reboot" on anyone who doesn't praise your movie is just asinine and lashing back at any portion of the fanbase just makes it personal and helps people to want your films to fail as a matter of principle. That should never have been an element of any SW discussion and for that reason I think that LFL needs to let Rian Johnson (and that raving ***** Chuck Wendig) go immediately.

 

[crows]

Snyder is truly a saint. Hes a real.gentleman. snyder is kind of my hero.

After batman v superman he could have lashed out but he never did. Even with man of steel he never did. Ever

It goes to show you what a disgusting little spineless worm rian jonson really is.
Snyders movies might suck but he never wanted 50% of his audience to hate the movie n purpose.....

i honestly hope rian disappears from hollywood

 

[YoNoSe]

I acknowledge that it's more professional to take the high road but with the way social media works I don't begrudge anyone a few shots at their hecklers. There is no accountability for these anonymous know-it-alls that camp out in threads and twitter feeds. They behave like animals and berate their targets for responding or blocking them. The pig pen is too well insulated.

 

[Khev]

I remember Lucas making some sweeping statements about early TPM complainers to the effect of "I know that a lot of fans want sci-fi movies more like The Terminator but I always set out to make a kids' movie" which obviously was not properly acknowledging the complaints against the movie but it was hardly an offensive comment.

I'm sure there have been episodes of CW/Rebels that ticked people off but how many times has Dave Filoni gone on social media to call people "manbabies?"

Abrams pretty much apologized for every criticism against TFA (unnecessarily even) and would only defend the "ANH remake" criticism with "we just thought that we had to go back to go forward."

Gareth never even acknowledged any criticism against RO and only said that making it was a dream come true.

Howard has shown nothing but class in the face of his bombing Solo flick (though amusingly he would retweet comments that praised Solo at the expense of TLJ, lol.)

But Rian Johnson, even though I totally see what he was going for and can appreciate all the things he did right, he's just fanned too many flames and stooped too low to be a viable member of LFL anymore. They really should just let him go and all the fan ire (that HE helped perpetuate) against him as well.

 

[Khev]

I acknowledge that it's more professional to take the high road but with the way social media works I don't begrudge anyone a few shots at their hecklers. There is no accountability for these anonymous know-it-alls that camp out in threads and twitter feeds. They behave like animals and berate their targets for responding or blocking them. The pig pen is too well insulated.

Yeah I got a kick out of Johnson's initial tweets like showing that old book that talked about Force Projection with Homer Simpson fading into the bushes but I think in the end the hecklers got the best of him.

 

[YoNoSe]

Yeah, he seems to have gone off the reservation. But it's always those self-proclaimed provocateurs who have the thinnest skin.

 

[crows]

I remember Lucas making some sweeping statements about early TPM complainers to the effect of "I know that a lot of fans want sci-fi movies more like The Terminator but I always set out to make a kids' movie" which obviously was not properly acknowledging the complaints against the movie but it was hardly an offensive comment.

I'm sure there have been episodes of CW/Rebels that ticked people off but how many times has Dave Filoni gone on social media to call people "manbabies?"

Abrams pretty much apologized for every criticism against TFA (unnecessarily even) and would only defend the "ANH remake" criticism with "we just thought that we had to go back to go forward."

Gareth never even acknowledged any criticism against RO and only said that making it was a dream come true.

Howard has shown nothing but class in the face of his bombing Solo flick (though amusingly he would retweet comments that praised Solo at the expense of TLJ, lol.)

But Rian Johnson, even though I totally see what he was going for and can appreciate all the things he did right, he's just fanned too many flames and stooped too low to be a viable member of LFL anymore. They really should just let him go and all the fan ire (that HE helped perpetuate) against him as well.

George lucas went to the daily show with Jon Stewart while the prequels were going on ( i think it was before the third one)

Jon Stewart asked about the haters, he shrugged and said " eh, what can you do"

Then he said " the older fans love the old trilogy. But i have realized a lot of young kids really love these prequels. And the kids dont really like the old ones.
So these movies are being enjoyed by the newer generations"

He dedended his moviesbut never cursed out the audience in that showed that were booing him.

 

[YoNoSe]

George wasn't on Twitter and Instagram dealing with inert keyboard jockeys looking for internet points. Knowing people are complaining is different than posting a picture of your cat and getting hit with "I can't look at your forced diversity Asian face it's not fair wah " x 1,000.

 

[Popnfresh98]

George wasn't on Twitter and Instagram dealing with inert keyboard jockeys looking for internet points. Knowing people are complaining is different than posting a picture of your cat and getting hit with "I can't look at your forced diversity Asian face it's not fair wah " x 1,000.

Do you remember what happened to Jake Lloyd? There was no twitter or Instagram back then. So much hate directed at a child. That was much worse than what Kelly is getting now.

And Lucas would never stoop so low even in this age. Some people are class acts and some people aren’t.

Like this guy, another Star Wars writer deciding to curse out fans:





He also calls all trump supporters/conservatives neckbeards and other insults. A lot of anti republican ramblings too. Way to go and alienate half the people in America. Another Chuck Wendig type employed at LFL

 

[YoNoSe]

I’m not saying it’s classy. But I’m not seeing all the posts and messages they are seeing. From the small sampling I do see I am often disgusted with the behavior of some fans. I think they should see the honest reaction of the people they attack and harass.

 

[Popnfresh98]

I definitely agree with you on that, I find such behavior terrible. Honestly twitter should just ban offensive/cursing tweets and persons on all sides. But throwing George in like he would have been different in current times ain’t right. The man’s already suffered so much heat and remained cool. Let’s not speculate he would have done the same without any proof/signs to warrant such a change in behaviour.

He sold his baby for a reason... let the man Rest In Peace lol

 

[YoNoSe]

Fair enough, I don’t pretend to know the mind of GL but he’s been swallowing it for so long I don’t know what would rattle him. I have seen random snaps with fans on the street and he looks like he has murder in his soul.

 

[aa909]

If it is true that the fans were considered a "given" then that was the wrong way to go. However, I don't know if Solo's box office issues are only from the negative response to TLJ. Weren't the TLJ toys not selling well even before the movie had been released?

I wonder if there is a bigger issue in that not as people care about Star Wars as originally assumed. When TFA came out, everyone I knew that wasn't interested in Star Wars was excited to see the film as it was sold as this big event. Most of them walked out of the theater with a 'meh' reaction and with each subsequent film I have seen their excitement lessen.

IMO taking the old fans as a "given" (or for granted) is only going to work if you keep in the spirit of what made these folks dedicated fans in the first place.

In any case I think it will be very interesting to see what happens with Episode 9. If it fails to exceed TLJ box office then I think Disney may have to rethink how they move forward with the franchise. all IMHO of course.

 

[Khev]

The narrative must be maintained at all costs.

I assume that you're speaking for yourself as well. I remember just recently you latching onto TaliBane's post that showed that Jumanji streaming downloads exceeded TLJ downloads as if that was "proof" that most people hated TLJ when of course it proved nothing of the kind and only showed that one extremely profitable movie outsold another.

You guys seem to want to embellish the facts and spin the numbers to support your own narrative just as much (or more) than the other side.

 

[crows]

Do you remember what happened to Jake Lloyd? There was no twitter or Instagram back then. So much hate directed at a child. That was much worse than what Kelly is getting now.

And Lucas would never stoop so low even in this age. Some people are class acts and some people aren’t.

Like this guy, another Star Wars writer deciding to curse out fans:

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View attachment 414213

He also calls all trump supporters/conservatives neckbeards and other insults. A lot of anti republican ramblings too. Way to go and alienate half the people in America. Another Chuck Wendig type employed at LFL

The guy from twilight had the best opinion about this

Celebrities Arguing with people online or on twitter is like punching water. Like punching at a lake. It never ends. Like punching a bee hive