Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Python]

What did crows do to get banned?

And this trilogy has to be about Kylo now. I understand why some people don't like him, he's different and his inner conflict can be construed as whiny as it probably hasn't been handled too well so far. But he's the only main character left whom has the potential to be genuinely interesting. Rey is boring, and not convincing in her role as a new Jedi finding her was as she simply wins every time and knows how to do everything. She's had no defeat to learn from and to have the audience route for her. Kylo has weirdly. He hasn't been fully utilised, but there's still a chance for JJ to do so in episode 9. I'd actually like to see Hayden make an appearance as a force ghost, that could make for some interesting scenes between him and Kylo.

 

[xipotec]

I watched it again yesterday. I still love the Luke arc, the rest of it really feels like filler. Fun filler , but filler non the less. It was a while
Lot of exposition to show how Poe is going from reckless pilot to responsible leader....and again how saving someone from violence will be the way to win.

Some thoughts,

Lukes arc is the story of Kylo and Rey split, with in him. Kylo believes the only way yo escape the past is to burn it down. Luke is LITERALLY trying to do this with the Jedi text. Also Luke clearly had a moment of weakness from fear, when going to Kylo to confront him. Kylo has been driven by his fear of never amounting to what everyone around him wanted. This is what sacred Luke so bad and reinforced his belief to stay awy after meeting Rey.

He says “The dark side offered you something you needed and you didn’t even hesitate.”

I believe the same happened to Kylo. Snoke offered him a way to be relevant , and he took it. Using the dark side to become powerful and relevant to his family’s eye. When that failed his answer was to destroy the past....so he would not have to live in anyones shadow.

Luke later follows the path of Rey. He comes to terms with the fact that it is possible to give hope without “attacking an entire army with his lazar sword” Rey is still learning this herself....she comes to term with it at the end, when she saves everyone by “lifting rocks” which I believe to be a strong metaphor for her seeing the truth of the force.

Yoda clearly agrees with Luke about the failure of the Jedi. At the height of their power they allowed Sideous to become emperor and Darth Vader to rise.
The both agree hubris, is the greatest sin. Lukes hubris was believing Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master , could not fail (as many fans also believed). The truth is , his deeds and legend , did not protect him from making mistakes, but almost guaranteed he would, just like the Jedi of old. His error was thinking it couldn’t happen, and was too late to realize when it did. I also believe Snoke may have had a hand in connecting Kylo and Lukes mind (as he did with Rey) and may have been feeding Luke one side of Kylo.

More to come. That arc get better amd better every viewing IMO.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[Chakor]

And this trilogy has to be about Kylo now. I understand why some people don't like him, he's different and his inner conflict can be construed as whiny as it probably hasn't been handled too well so far. But he's the only main character left whom has the potential to be genuinely interesting. Rey is boring, and not convincing in her role as a new Jedi finding her was as she simply wins every time and knows how to do everything. She's had no defeat to learn from and to have the audience route for her. Kylo has weirdly. He hasn't been fully utilised, but there's still a chance for JJ to do so in episode 9. I'd actually like to see Hayden make an appearance as a force ghost, that could make for some interesting scenes between him and Kylo.

 

[DiFabio]

I watched it again yesterday. I still love the Luke arc, the rest of it really feels like filler. Fun filler , but filler non the less. It was a while
Lot of exposition to show how Poe is going from reckless pilot to responsible leader....and again how saving someone from violence will be the way to win.

Some thoughts,

Lukes arc is the story of Kylo and Rey split, with in him. Kylo believes the only way yo escape the past is to burn it down. Luke is LITERALLY trying to do this with the Jedi text. Also Luke clearly had a moment of weakness from fear, when going to Kylo to confront him. Kylo has been driven by his fear of never amounting to what everyone around him wanted. This is what sacred Luke so bad and reinforced his belief to stay awy after meeting Rey.

He says “The dark side offered you something you needed and you didn’t even hesitate.”

I believe the same happened to Kylo. Snoke offered him a way to be relevant , and he took it. Using the dark side to become powerful and relevant to his family’s eye. When that failed his answer was to destroy the past....so he would not have to live in anyones shadow.

Luke later follows the path of Rey. He comes to terms with the fact that it is possible to give hope without “attacking an entire army with his lazar sword” Rey is still learning this herself....she comes to term with it at the end, when she saves everyone by “lifting rocks” which I believe to be a strong metaphor for her seeing the truth of the force.

Yoda clearly agrees with Luke about the failure of the Jedi. At the height of their power they allowed Sideous to become emperor and Darth Vader to rise.
The both agree hubris, is the greatest sin. Lukes hubris was believing Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master , could not fail (as many fans also believed). The truth is , his deeds and legend , did not protect him from making mistakes, but almost guaranteed he would, just like the Jedi of old. His error was thinking it couldn’t happen, and was too late to realize when it did. I also believe Snoke may have had a hand in connecting Kylo and Lukes mind (as he did with Rey) and may have been feeding Luke one side of Kylo.

More to come. That arc get better amd better every viewing IMO.


Sent from the inside of a giant slug in outer space.....

 

[jye4ever]

 

[DiFabio]

Thank you Jye, I've been eagerly anticipating a new masterpiece from you and you didn't disappoint.

The message you're conveying in your art regarding Ms. Kennedy is very profound but there is something oddly perverse and dare I say, homoerotic about it. Very evocative of the *** pirates from the 1600 and 1700s with their Siren chest tattoos.

How much for this piece, sans frame?

 

[jye4ever]

I made a version with her stretching my Rian Johnson

 

[Khev]

View attachment 415657

Canto Bight trilogy when, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

I think that pic perfectly captures how you and I are immune to KK stretching torture look how relaxed we look you’re even smiling.

No post TLJ meltdown for us.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Question for y’all: KK herself has said the main SW saga is about three generations of the Skywalker family.

So can that still be the case if the main protagonist is a “nobody”? Will JJ retcon Rey as a Skywalker (which may have been his original intention) or will this turn out to be Kylo’s story (like the first six episodes were Vader’s story)?

I think the ST is already as much about Kylo as it is about Rey. But maybe Rey being somehow a Skywalker wouldn't need to be a true retcon - if her "nobody" parents just turn out to be adoptive/inherited ones, unbeknownst to her (much like Leia knew the Organas as her parents, even though her lineage was Skywalker). I know that would be derivative (probably too derivative, tbh), but it's one way out. And Rey's perspective on her parents in TLJ was only informed by a Dark Side cave, and by Kylo (also Dark Side). Not exactly the most honest sources. So, I believe it's still a viable possibility that she can be connected to the Skywalker lineage.

I'd actually like to see Hayden make an appearance as a force ghost, that could make for some interesting scenes between him and Kylo.

As much as I cringe at the idea of being reminded of the PT again on screen, if JJ could pull this off in a way that would make PT Anakin seem like less of a whiny ***** to me, I'd be forever grateful! Don't know if that can actually be done, though.

 

[screamingmetal]

Since this is available to watch for free on Netflix, I decided to give it a second chance since seeing this once in a theater, yep I still hate TLJ.
General Hux, Poe, Leia, Luke, Rey, Ren, Holdo, Finn, Rose- all made stupid terrible decisions that got people killed or allowed the rebellion to attack & evade. And there's some ridiculous hero plot armor throughout.
The movie stinks of stupidity.

 

[jye4ever]

Since this is available to watch for free on Netflix, I decided to give it a second chance since seeing this once in a theater, yep I still hate TLJ.
General Hux, Poe, Leia, Luke, Rey, Ren, Holdo, Finn, Rose- all made stupid terrible decisions that got people killed or allowed the rebellion to attack & evade. And there's some ridiculous hero plot armor throughout.
The movie stinks of stupidity.

Stupid and terrible decisions usually eminate from desperate situations.

I did question the Jedi council in PT making stupid terrible decisions at dealing with a phantom threat but at least in TLJ they were on the run under constant assault.

Either way heroes always have to make mistakes or else the movie will be quite boring.

 

[DiFabio]

Either way heroes always have to make mistakes or else the movie will be quite boring.

Like Rey and the ST.

 

[Python]

As much as I cringe at the idea of being reminded of the PT again on screen, if JJ could pull this off in a way that would make PT Anakin seem like less of a whiny ***** to me, I'd be forever grateful! Don't know if that can actually be done, though.

If you like TLJ, you should really give the prequels another chance. Regarding Hayden Christensen. I thought of him as the wooden weak link for years, but the more I watch them over the years, the more he's grown on me for various reasons. Now I don't think he was "perfect" at all, but I saw this pop up last week which may help explain a couple of those reasons better than I can.... Ultimately he's not a bad actor really. If he's given some solid lines to work with, he could be a real positive for Episode 9, and we all know it needs as many of those as it can get given how little it has been left to work with.

 

[IndianaPaul]

Not a true Bad Lip Reading, but the following has some funny bits (such as at 1:19 and 2:07):

 

[jye4ever]

The fact that there are people who love this film just shows there's someone to love everything, no matter what it is. I still can't quite wrap my brain around what people love. I see potential wasted when I watch this film, and if I was a woman or "minority" I would indeed be unhappy that this was the best film they could come up with for an all-inclusive Star Wars film - a film that by the director's admission was purposely divisive. Disney rewards him by giving him his own trilogy. I truly do not understand this at all, I guess maybe conflict is what sells and Disney wants to capitalize on that conflict with that director, that's all I can figure. Story-wise, the new trilogy has no value to me whatsoever, like was said before - I didn't need to see Han and Luke die. Too bad they couldn't have just introduced new characters and told a good story instead of making it about crapping all over the past, but I guess destroying is what sells now (i.e. "reality" TV generation?).

I will never see another Star Wars film - certainly not in the theater anyway. Not out of spite, I'm not that petty... the quality has simply suffered so much as to make it unwatchable for me - I simply have no more interest. For those who are loving the new ones... enjoy it while you can, the next generation might have a few rude surprises for you that you don't understand or like, because it's true what they say: what goes around comes around. It's no longer the film series George created, but we have the films we love already - and that's a good thing!

It's funny though, there are other film series that I have immensely enjoyed reboots to, and they're more inclusive too. I don't know who made it about race and gender, because I think that for most fans they're completely wrong: no one cares who stars in it, so long as it's a good film and well-acted. I would never hire RJ to do a Star Wars film if I was Disney, but clearly they have other agendas than I would. So here's to enjoying all the other film franchises that have embraced a wider diversity and done it without needing to ruin their franchises - I hope to enjoy these other ones for years to come!

I like not love TLJ and I prefer it over the bland flat TFA.

But just because I like TLJ does it automatically mean that I love everything.

Besides there are 7.6 billion humans imagine how small the % of them will even watch TLJ but at the same time of course there will be fans who enjoyed it with those kinds of numbers.

 

[screamingmetal]

Stupid and terrible decisions usually eminate from desperate situations.

I did question the Jedi council in PT making stupid terrible decisions at dealing with a phantom threat but at least in TLJ they were on the run under constant assault.

Either way heroes always have to make mistakes or else the movie will be quite boring.

The bad decisions were simply illogical storytelling.
Hux was wrong in ordering the Dreadnought to first destroy the base on the planet instead of the Resistance's cruiser cutting off their escape.
Leia was wrong to tell Poe not to destroy the Dreadnought because if Poe didn't destroy it, it would've just followed the Resistance cruiser and destroy it with the Dreadnought after they jumped, therefore, Leia was wrong to chastise and demote Poe, Poe was right.
Poe was wrong to send Rose, an Engineer that he probably just met who had no mission experience on that important mission to find the code breaker, he should've gone with Finn himself.
Luke was wrong every step of the way; wrong to abandon his Jedi principles, wrong to abandon his mission to remake the Jedi to overcome previous problems and train the next generation of Jedi, Wrong to try and kill his nephew Ben instead of trying to redeem him, and wrong to abandon his friends and family in their time of need.
Rey was wrong to trust Kylo Ren who last she saw murdered his father. Her attempt at his redemption makes no damn sense. Maybe once she saw him with his shirt off she lost all logic because women are soooo easily seduced (That's sarcasm btw).
Ren was wrong to let his whiny crybaby anger influence all his decisions (god I hate this character, this is what they replaced Vader with?).
Holdo was wrong not telling Poe and the rest of the crew her and Leia's plans, there was no reason for her not to, and it might've actually encouraged the remaining crew. She was also wrong not to have a droid autopilot the ship into lightspeed into the Supremacy and do that before all those resistance ships and crew members died.
Finn was wrong to trust DJ, a stranger he just met on the mission.
Rose was wrong to stop Finn from Kamikazing the battering ram thing because he probably would've destroyed all the FO forces there along with Kylo and Hux ending the FO once and for all. She also probably would've killed both her and Finn by ramming into him (more hero plot armor).

The whole movie is just stupid.
Sorry for the rant, I just needed to vent.

 

[Chakor]

I like not love TLJ and I prefer it over the bland flat RO.

I agree with the last part...

 

[ajp4mgs]

If you like TLJ, you should really give the prequels another chance. Regarding Hayden Christensen. I thought of him as the wooden weak link for years, but the more I watch them over the years, the more he's grown on me for various reasons. Now I don't think he was "perfect" at all, but I saw this pop up last week which may help explain a couple of those reasons better than I can.... Ultimately he's not a bad actor really. If he's given some solid lines to work with, he could be a real positive for Episode 9, and we all know it needs as many of those as it can get given how little it has been left to work with.

I've given the PT so many chances that it's actually sad. Lots of repeat viewings as I tried so hard to find reasons that the PT might actually be good somehow. But no matter how much my heart wanted to believe it, my brain just keeps laughing at how hilariously bad those films come across to me. There are too many flaws for me to have to overcome.

I can't say that Hayden Christensen is a bad actor (haven't seen him in anything else). In fact, if all I knew about Sam Jackson was his work in the prequels, I'd think he was an irredeemably awful actor too. The writing and dialogue didn't do anyone any favors in the PT. The problem for me with Christensen's Anakin is that I'm supposed to believe that's the same guy behind the mask in the OT. Not a chance! There's too much disconnect. The OT Vader was too charismatic, too self-assured, and too badass for the PT Anakin to be a believable representation of the man who grew into that Vader.

For PT Anakin/Chistensen to work for me in the ST, I'd need the tone to be seriously dark and the writing to be much more intellectually satisfying than the PT. Then I can see Christensen being able to pull off a much better Anakin. But if it's just an Anakin (who the PT seemed to establish as being created by either Plagueis or Sidious) trying to redeem Kylo back to the light side . . . then no thank you.

 

[JAWS]

At one time I was probably concerned with 'proving' that the prequels are objectively crap but at this point - while yes I still hold that view - I just don't care to try and prove it anymore. And so too with the sequels. My own opinion is enough for me. It's just movies. At this point I like precisely half of the existing Star Wars live action films, it's not a new thing for me to not like a Star Wars film, not at all.

I have a weird relationship with the PT. While I know they are crap I can easily watch them. Not so with the ST.

PT still feels like a galaxy far far away to me. But the ST lacks that certain something to give it a true SW feel. Some might say it may have something to do with my age but I loved the two SW story films. I have lots of reasons that the ST does not feel like SW to me. From lack of imaginative planets and alien life to the sound effects design. I also think that both films are John Williams worst work of the series.. PT was able to at least hit those notes and thus make it at least watchable as far bad SW movies go lol..

I also think the action scenes in the PT are better then the action scenes in the ST. Nothing really stands out at all for me with the ST.

I am not saying that the action in the PT is all great but at least they are memorable for one reason or another. Take the Coruscant chase in TCW... Not all that exciting but I thought the look and sound design was very cool.. Cool enough that it stuck with me. I cant say the same for the ST... Even that Rey and Kylo duel in the Red room was not all that great to me. Chorography was not that great and I personally did not care for the weapons the guards used. Plus where is the bad ass sounds that Light Sabers make.. The sound design in these ST is not very good IMO.