The poor OT. The ST can't stand on its own, so in we drag the OT (over and over) to prove the ST was in fact, in the long-winded analysis while co-opting a classic OT scene or two... good
.
I'll take it one further for you, I have ALWAYS believed Luke started down the path to the dark side... and to quote Yoda...
"once you start down the path to the dark side, forever will it dominate your destiny...consume you it will.....as it did Obi Wans apprentice."
It is at this moment it happens.....
The Emporer
" take your Jedi weapon....I am defenseless...strike me down and your JOURNEY TOWARD the dark side is complete".
Luke DOES try to kill the Emperor. Like it or not, he does.
Yoda clearly says Jedi never use the force for attack. Luke FAILED at his lessons here, and he started down the dark path.....
His heroic moment was realizing this, and understanding that fighting and violence was NOT going to save his father or anyone else. He DOES sacrifice himself...he had no idea if Anakin, whom was trying to kill him literal seconds earlier, would save him....his HOPE was the only string he had left to play.
I know many people will never see Luke as anything but a bad ass master Jedi, whom beat the Emperor and Vader single handed and won the war. People have their interpretations, but most of the time they are fed by their own beliefs and not what actually happened. (like thinking the Gammereon Guards were "put to sleep". Luke stopped fighting and allow himself to be killed.....period.
Coincidentally, Luke becomes a pacifist right after he's cut Vader's hand off, Vader's lost his saber and he's in "I've fallen and can't get up" mode. And all Luke has to face is an old man in a bathrobe whose powers are unknown at that point.... Because, you know - that might make him an
actual pacifist.
It not a coincidence...it is literally Luke's defining moment. As show in the picture above...he realizes the path he is on, as Yoda and Palps told him ...as he decides as a hero to take himself out of the equation....He knows that his only card to play is to NOT join the fight...
It's hard for me to believe that the whole "Jedi are pacifists" or "Luke was a pacifist" notions are still being touted here (and elsewhere). The Jedi are NOT pacifists. Pacifism is a philosophy of non-violence, under any circumstances. It is a belief that peaceful resolutions should be the only option to any conflict. The strictest definition of pacifism doesn't even allow for self-defense.
Pacifism may not be the best word. I believe jedi were always ment to be defenders of the innocent, as the Knight of old.....The problem is everytime we see them go on the attack....it leads to bad things. This is why the old Yoda trys to instill in Luke patience and meditation. I think it was the entire POINT of TPM, once the Jedi become more than negotiators and defenders of Naboo......the entire order self destructs...
Yoda: "The Cave, remember your failure in the cave...."
What was Luke's failure? HE ATTACKED FIRST. Yoda was again trying to show him that giving into his anger and fear...attacking first...would ultimately lead him to turning into someone JUST LIKE HIS FATHER!
TLJ Luke's exile and beliefs weren't motivated by pacifism. He was frustrated by the concept of balancing the light and dark sides of the Force. He simply felt (at first) that Jedi hubris (and his own) kept leading to this cycle of Sith rising. He felt that the Force shouldn't be viewed as the sole property of the Jedi, and that it kept leading to Dookus and Vaders and Kylos. So he sought the Jedi Temple in order to burn the sacred texts; then when he dies, he'd thereby end the whole religion.
The most important connection between OT Luke and ST Luke is that he continues to resist and despise the Dark side of the Force. He doesn't despise violence; he despises evil. At the end, he even tells Kylo that "the war is just beginning." I can virtually promise you that he fully understood that war was going to be fought violently. Just like Kenobi did when he helped Luke destroy the first Death Star (lots of violent deaths). Just like Yoda did by encouraging Luke to defeat Vader and the Emperor (and not just at a game of dejarik).
All excellent points, but I would remind you of Obi wan and his final act...self sacrifice. He allowed himself to be killed to save his friends. It could not be more of an mirror image to what Luke does in TLJ......its literally the same concept...People love Obi Wan character.....But for Luke the same ultimate sacrifice and he was viewed as a loser. My belief is similar to this but not the same. While I agree that Luke was constantly struggling with the Dark Side, I do not agree that he thinks war is the answer for Jedi......I think he believes that the Jedi being involved in these wars , in the capacity of warriors, are what make the get out of hand. He knows a war is coming...what I think is he understands if it become Sith versus Jedi again....it will never end. The force users need to become leaders out of violence and war.....not part of the fighting force.
Luke was NOT opposed to killing. He was opposed to killing his father. That's it. Luke was not opposed to being violent. He was opposed to becoming a Sith. It wasn't an opposition to violent conflict; it was an opposition to using violence for evil. He had no problem using violence to slow down and stop evil. Luke is the ultimate good guy; not the ultimate pacifist.
Also correct..>WAS NOT opposed(past tense).......he became that way after seeing what his constant journey to kill Vader as revenge for Obi was doing to him...
Again...Yoda warns him in ROTJ.
Remember, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware: Anger, fear, aggression - the dark side, are they. Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor...or suffer your father's fate you will. Luke......when gone am I, the last of the Jedi, will you be.
Great conversation guys....My interpretation of the film has been the same basically since I was a teen and could really analyze the scenes when it finally came out on VHS. I had always hoped to see Luke actually continue to struggle against the dark path he started in that scene. Thats why I didn't have trouble with him thinking of attacking Kylo... and as a result enjoyed TLJ. Also being a fan of the comics, and in particular , Dark Empire and The Thrawn Trilogy.
